Spitzer: Upstate New York is 'Appalachia'

[blzrul]

What in the world does any of that have to do with Bill Johnson being too foolish to get any input into just how horrible of an idea the Fast Ferry that he bought was?

 

I did not live in Rochester in the '80's, so I have no idea if any of what you are asking about occurred or didn't.

634780[/snapback]

Uh because a comment was made that the Simon school should have been consulted about the ferry. And I wasn't "asking" I was stating. I lived there, and it did happen.

[Lori]

This may be a minor point  but Allegany, Broome, Cattaraugus, Chautauqua, Chemung, Chenango, Cortland, Delaware, Otsego, Schoharie, Schuyler, Steuben, Tioga, and Tomkins county technically are Appalachia.

 

Who the hell took my Banjo?

Nevermind, I left it in my canoe.

634589[/snapback]

Valid point. It's funny how most of the talk in this thread automatically migrated to the cities involved (with you and OnTheRocks about the only exceptions), when true Appalachia -- with poverty levels comparable to the worst inner-city area you can think of -- is well to the south of the Thruway. Think I'm kidding? Hell, I LIVE in Appalachia:

The median income for a household in the borough was $34,896, and the median income for a family was $43,125. Males had a median income of $32,792 versus $21,434 for females. The per capita income for the borough was $16,601. 16.5% of the population and 13.2% of families were below the poverty line. 27.0% of those under the age of 18 and 8.9% of those 65 and older were living below the poverty line.

wikipedia: Port Allegany, PA

 

And Dems, if you're wondering why we tend to vote Republican up in this neck of the woods? Keep thinking only about the cities, and you'll continue to find out.

[Taro T]

Uh because a comment was made that the Simon school should have been consulted about the ferry.  And I wasn't "asking" I was stating.  I lived there, and it did happen.

634793[/snapback]

None of that has ANY bearing whatsoever in the fact that Bill Johnson had a world class resource available to him and chose not to make use of it because he thought a boat would be a cool way to leave a legacy and didn't want to hear just how bad the idea and implementation truly were.

 

The sad part is, if they had a much smaller boat and had worked with someone that actually knew something about ferry operations (instead of CATS), it is POSSIBLE that the venture wouldn't have failed. It definitely wouldn't have flamed out so spectacularly.

[Ghost of BiB]

Valid point. It's funny how most of the talk in this thread automatically migrated to the cities involved (with you and OnTheRocks about the only exceptions), when true Appalachia -- with poverty levels comparable to the worst inner-city area you can think of -- is well to the south of the Thruway. Think I'm kidding? Hell, I LIVE in Appalachia:

And Dems, if you're wondering why we tend to vote Republican up in this neck of the woods? Keep thinking only about the cities, and you'll continue to find out.

634796[/snapback]

 

Lori. As long as people like Clinton can buy NYC, you're screwed. The Dems don't care that you vote Republican, because it simply doesn't matter to them. The cities definitely do matter. I've spoken with many, many people from other places who have no clue as to how rural NYS is. Plenty see nothing but asphalt and concrete, not realizing there are only three or four urban centers, and compared to NYC they are chump change. Just an opinion, but anything that doesn't benefit NYC is an afterthought, and if you get something, it's a tossed bone.

[OnTheRocks]

Lori. As long as people like Clinton can buy NYC, you're screwed. The Dems don't care that you vote Republican, because it simply doesn't matter to them. The cities definitely do matter. I've spoken with many, many people from other places who have no clue as to how rural NYS is. Plenty see nothing but asphalt and concrete, not realizing there are only three or four urban centers, and compared to NYC they are chump change. Just an opinion, but anything that doesn't benefit NYC is an afterthought, and if you get something, it's a tossed bone.

634807[/snapback]

 

 

precisely why the lunatic left wants to do away with the electoral college.

 

you are right about the NYS = NYC conception to anyone outside of NY.

i have traveled all over the country and when i tell them i am from Upstate New York, the typical response is..."oh....city boy huh?"

[Lori]

Lori. As long as people like Clinton can buy NYC, you're screwed. The Dems don't care that you vote Republican, because it simply doesn't matter to them. The cities definitely do matter. I've spoken with many, many people from other places who have no clue as to how rural NYS is. Plenty see nothing but asphalt and concrete, not realizing there are only three or four urban centers, and compared to NYC they are chump change. Just an opinion, but anything that doesn't benefit NYC is an afterthought, and if you get something, it's a tossed bone.

634807[/snapback]

I'm on the Pennsyltucky side of the state line, of course, but it's the same deal here -- metro Philly and Pittsburgh are the only "blue" parts of an otherwise redder-than-red state. But since the deer and elk up this way can't vote, the Dems have something like a 600K edge in voter registration.

 

I've been on the BoD of the local United Fund for eight years now, so I see the applications from the various service providers we support. Some ugly numbers there... and with two factories right in town, we're actually better off than some of our neighbors. (Per capita, the poorest school district in the entire state isn't in an inner city -- it's Otto-Eldred, right next door to us.)

But hey, those new multimillion-dollar stadiums in the 'Burgh sure are swell, aren't they?

 

OnTheRocks: you know, I'd actually be in favor of revamping the EC from a winner-takes-all system to one that parcels out the votes by Congressional district (while leaving the two Senatorial votes to be determined statewide). At least then I wouldn't be tempted to throw things at the TV when the talking heads automatically declare PA for the Democratic candidate as soon as the polls close...

[Mickey]

Lori. As long as people like Clinton can buy NYC, you're screwed. The Dems don't care that you vote Republican, because it simply doesn't matter to them. The cities definitely do matter. I've spoken with many, many people from other places who have no clue as to how rural NYS is. Plenty see nothing but asphalt and concrete, not realizing there are only three or four urban centers, and compared to NYC they are chump change. Just an opinion, but anything that doesn't benefit NYC is an afterthought, and if you get something, it's a tossed bone.

634807[/snapback]

At the same time, the taxes collected in NYC keep the rest of upstate afloat:

 

"The Center for Governmental Research released a recent report that showed that New York City "contributes significantly more in revenue than it receives in state funds."

 

Upstate areas receive $1.41 in state aid for every tax dollar contributed, while New York City breaks even, the report states. Likewise, the upstate area, with the exception of Rochester County, receives much more than their share of state spending."

 

Without the city, upstate would be financially screwed.

 

Politically, the city is not as dominant in Albany as you might think. There are around 3.7 million people there but there are 7 million or so upstate. Every once in awhile some lunatic raises the idea of separating upstate from the city. Upstaters usually cheer the effort until they see how deeply they would be screwed and how the city would actually benefit.

[Alaska Darin]

At the same time, the taxes collected in NYC keep the rest of upstate afloat:

 

"The Center for Governmental Research released a recent report that showed that New York City "contributes significantly more in revenue than it receives in state funds."

 

Upstate areas receive $1.41 in state aid for every tax dollar contributed, while New York City breaks even, the report states. Likewise, the upstate area, with the exception of Rochester County, receives much more than their share of state spending."

 

Without the city, upstate would be financially screwed. 

 

Politically, the city is not as dominant in Albany as you might think.  There are around 3.7 million people there but there are 7 million or so upstate.  Every once in awhile some lunatic raises the idea of separating upstate from the city.  Upstaters usually cheer the effort until they see how deeply they would be screwed and how the city would actually benefit.

634954[/snapback]

That's was a horseshit argument the first time it was made, and it's a horseshit argument now. NYC has the financial district of the richest country in the world and the United Nations, which means it's pretty much recession proof. At the same time it wields a ridiculous amount of power to set the legislative direction of the rest of the state, which led to almost complete business flight everywhere else.

 

But we can pretend tossing a few crumbs in the way of tax money balances everything else out because it makes it seem like the failed liberal policies of the last forty years actually suck a bit less.

 

Oh and BTW, I don't know where you get your numbers but NYC's population (according to the 2004 census) is north of 8.1 million. That's over 40% of the state's population.

[OnTheRocks]

Rochester County

634954[/snapback]

 

Monroe County?

[colin]

for mickey and anyone else who might not understand:

 

spitzer goes after some high profile targets well, but backs down quickly (out of court settlement) and looks the other way (NYC transport union) when it doesn't suit is political agenda.

 

companies that are looking to move won't move to NYS if they think the administration plays favorites and likes to go witch hunting on a regular basis.

 

it doesn't really matter either way tho. the only thing upstate has going for it is that it has a few schools that graduates people who move far away and still support the bills.

[blzrul]

None of that has ANY bearing whatsoever in the fact that Bill Johnson had a world class resource available to him and chose not to make use of it because he thought a boat would be a cool way to leave a legacy and didn't want to hear just how bad the idea and implementation truly were.

 

The sad part is, if they had a much smaller boat and had worked with someone that actually knew something about ferry operations (instead of CATS), it is POSSIBLE that the venture wouldn't have failed.  It definitely wouldn't have flamed out so spectacularly.

634799[/snapback]

For all you know the Simon School might have told him his idea was excellent. I have an MBA myself ... I thought it was stupid, but I thought getting the ferry in the first place was stupid. Who the hell would want to leave Toronto to visit Rochester. Duh.

[X. Benedict]

At the same time it wields a ridiculous amount of power to set the legislative direction of the rest of the state, which led to almost complete business flight everywhere else.

 

634972[/snapback]

That is exactly why we end up with state spending at the local level for stuff we don't need. Around here we have a multimillion dollar forensics lab that the state gave us that

no township can afford to use. We see stuff like this happen again and again.

 

Democrats in rural counties are generally more conservative than your NYC Republicans. In fact, most that get elected run on the Democrat and Conservative lines on the ballot.

 

A good argument could be made for taking out the hacksaw and slicing this state in two.

Two additional Senators in Congress could make a hell of a difference along with ability to actually decide how money is to be spent rurally rather than earmarked by downstate lobbies.

 

Lastly, take a look at the Upstate congressional districts. What a Picasso-esque cluster-^*^*. What better example of Government at you, than Government for you.

Nationally, the Democrats had no viable rural strategy in the last election, and the DNC did little to nothing to help its rural candidates for Congress even in the most viable districts. Totally shortsighted.

[Chef Jim]

It is a sad, sad day when you and I agree about something.

634708[/snapback]

 

Well I can always change my mind you know.

[Taro T]

For all you know the Simon School might have told him his idea was excellent. I have an MBA myself ... I thought it was stupid, but I thought getting the ferry in the first place was stupid.  Who the hell would want to leave Toronto to visit Rochester.  Duh.

635329[/snapback]

Wrong. But thanks for playing.

[Bill from NYC]

Doesn't matter.  He could wear swastikas and the idiot Democrats would vote for him in droves.  NY continues to get exactly what it deserves.

632976[/snapback]

 

AD, you underestimate Spitzer. He cares about things that are really important to the people of NYS, such as this!

[stuckincincy]

AD, you underestimate Spitzer. He cares about things that are really important to the people of NYS, such as this!

635846[/snapback]

 

Take it from an old back-room cigar smoker - Spitzer is buried under tons of dirt that will be shoveled up into the light of day if the NYS Dems run him.

 

If they have any brains, they will get a pretty boy with no track record, and hawk him as the choice for change for the Gov...

[kegtapr]

If they have any brains, they will get a pretty boy with no track record, and hawk him as the choice for change for the Gov...

636069[/snapback]

 

You mean like this guy?

 

Questions is, will the party support him over Spitzer. Probably not.

[Ghost of BiB]

Question, not being local. How much does the national machine affect the state machine for state politics? Schumer and Clinton are like friggen poster children. Is that really distanced from Albany? Or, are they tied together?

[X. Benedict]

Question, not being local. How much does the national machine affect the state machine for state politics? Schumer and Clinton are like friggen poster children. Is that really distanced from Albany? Or, are they tied together?

636104[/snapback]

 

Just my opinion, but Schumer and Clinton try to stay out of Albany except when it is politically expediant. You can't spend much time in Albany and appear to be above the mud. Inside the state Clinton seems to take very few positions because she doesn't need to. At least for most of WNY the Clinton staff avoids most interaction and is very poor at even answering letters or responding to querries even from Democrat commitee members.

 

Schumer however, takes a much more active interest in rural issues and has a staff that actually reponds to querries and is much more proactive and generally has better relations with the Upstate county commitees. Hillary doesn't need much more than the five borroughs, Monroe, Erie and some of the bigger counties, and has managed to keep her public stances on state issues to a minimum. Clinton, at this point, operates like she doesn't need the party unlike Schumer, but both keep a critical distance from most state legislation and interaction. Just my opinion. People from closer to Albany may have a different perspective.

[OnTheRocks]

Take it from an old back-room cigar smoker - Spitzer is buried under tons of dirt that will be shoveled up into the light of day if the NYS Dems run him.

 

If they have any brains, they will get a pretty boy with no track record, and hawk him as the choice for change for the Gov...

636069[/snapback]

 

 

 

there are no "if's, ands, or butts".....this guy is not only the Dems candidate, he will win the Gov. of NY without breaking a sweat.