Lv-Bills Posted March 13, 2006 Posted March 13, 2006 I see. So we shoudl pay 31 million for a WR that caught 35 passes last year, has never caught more than 47 in 1 season, and who has 7 career TD's? 626741[/snapback] Hines Ward is one of the top 5 WR's in the league and his catch totals are lower than alot of WR's. It has a little to do with the Pittsburgh offense. And yeah, Randle has the "it" factor. He shoved it up our ass here in Buffalo in 2004 in that last game. However, would I give El that last contract? No. Why? Becuase I would have given, and even slightly overpaid, to get some damn lineman in here. And that could have been on EITHER side of the ball. And don't give me this friggin crap that Royal is a player who was brought here to help our O-Line. I want a damn O-line that can play. Not a TE that is going to help our O-line. While there is some merit to "wait it out" crowd, Triplett is a below average lineman who will be barely average in there by himself. Like I said though, that could change quickly with Rocky Bernard signing. Bernard would make Tripplett alot better in my opinion. BUT, that stuff hasn't happened since John Butler and Polian used to be creative with our money. I mean seriously, wanna be able to let Nate Clements walk and free up money? Get a serious pass rush. Wanna be able to watch ANY running back do well, or have JP more comfortable in the pocket? Sign some damn good lineman. Lineman can make a lot of unknown skill players household names. It hardly ever works out the other way around. Some of us just want that progressive thinking again.
1billsfan Posted March 13, 2006 Posted March 13, 2006 Not on your life - just amazed at what the fans are willing to buy if it's adorned in the red whte and blue of the Bills.... 625982[/snapback] I'm amazed at your ingratitude after Marv's clear upgrading over Bannan, Cambell and Reed. You're obviously looking for Marv to sign superstars that quickly eat up all available cap space, this is NOT the road to success today's NFL. Marv's just taking a page from Beliceck's blueprint. You must be a big fan of Daniel Snyder.
Lv-Bills Posted March 13, 2006 Posted March 13, 2006 I'm amazed at your ingratitude after Marv's clear upgrading over Bannan, Cambell and Reed. You're obviously looking for Marv to sign superstars that quickly eat up all available cap space, this is NOT the road to success today's NFL. Marv's just taking a page from Beliceck's blueprint. You must be a big fan of Daniel Snyder. 626759[/snapback] Yeah, the problem is, we don't have Tom Brady. We don't have a Richard Seymour. We don't have an offensive line, let alone O-line depth. We also don't have Bill Belicheck. We don't have Rodney Harrison or some of the Pats leadership like McGinest, Brown, Vrabel and Bruschi. While Belicheck lucked into Brady playing, he also stuck with him, in what was a difficult decision to play an unproven kid over Bledsoe. Marv is bringing in "character" guys (which is a start), but the Patriots have a team full of "character" guys who are far above average NFL players. Big Difference.
1billsfan Posted March 13, 2006 Posted March 13, 2006 Yeah, the problem is, we don't have Tom Brady. We don't have a Richard Seymour. We don't have an offensive line, let alone O-line depth. We also don't have Bill Belicheck. We don't have Rodney Harrison or some of the Pats leadership like McGinest, Brown, Vrabel and Bruschi. While Belicheck lucked into Brady playing, he also stuck with him, in what was a difficult decision to play an unproven kid over Bledsoe. Marv is bringing in "character" guys (which is a start), but the Patriots have a team full of "character" guys who are far above average NFL players. Big Difference. 626766[/snapback] We haven't had leadership in the front office or in the coaching staff either. That could have been a big part of why this team collapsed on itself when faced with the least bit of adversity. Get our players on the same page and let's see where they stack up with the rest of the AFC East teams. I'm certainly not writing off a complete turnaround of fortune for the Bills in 2006.
Pass the Pipe Posted March 13, 2006 Posted March 13, 2006 LOL Come on, you know how the mature, don't be impatient crowd is level headed and clearly sees things better than the rest. Here is their formula the last 5 years or so with all of this..... "It's only the first day of Free Agency, you morons." "It's still early in Free Agency, you morons." ***meanwhile you end up with B. Anderson and the like. Then it switches to the ever so cutsie: "Doooooooooooooooooooooomed" That is supposed to show that the informed fan is both showing patience and even more maturity than the fans that aren't thrilled with the three below average NFL players that we have signed so far (although I kind of like the Andre Davis signing for some odd reason). Then we get...... "We haven't had time to gel yet, because it's early in training camp." Then....... "Any idiot knows we only have 2, first team, first downs, in four pre-season games, because we're being vanilla and not really even trying to do well." Then, the progression continues with the...... "We're only 1-3 you idiots, it's early." And then the cycle continues with the...... "Seriously people, even though we're out of it again, we're only one or two guys away from being right back in it." And THEN, after what is now only 2 years (Instead of 4 or 5).........we'll hear about how bad of a place Buffalo is, and that's why we can't attract good, quality, head coaches to Buffalo. So, the team gets a pass on even trying to bring one here as we end up with the Jaurons and Mularkeys of the world. And so the cycle now continues with you.......don't sweat it man, sooner or later the lemmings (as they like to call us chicken littles) will get lucky and have their day in the sun and we'll get a road wild card game as a 9-7 team.......and they can all scream I TOLD YOU SO. Even though it took 12 years or so. Let's just hope Marv has more plans in place. A guy like a Rocky Bernard would make Larry Tripplett a much, much better signing. Keeping Moulds, would make Andre Davis much more valuable as a #3. Moulds is a necessity, not because he is that good, but because there is nothing really out there. As for fuggin Robert Royal......you've gotta be kidding me. But oh well, that is one we can pin totally on Marv at the end of the season and see how it plays out. There isn't anyone on this board that wanted Robert Royal or probably even knew who he was. I hope Marv is right. 626710[/snapback] You obviously know the drill.
R. Rich Posted March 13, 2006 Posted March 13, 2006 Yeah, the problem is, we don't have Tom Brady. We don't have a Richard Seymour. We don't have an offensive line, let alone O-line depth. We also don't have Bill Belicheck. We don't have Rodney Harrison or some of the Pats leadership like McGinest, Brown, Vrabel and Bruschi. While Belicheck lucked into Brady playing, he also stuck with him, in what was a difficult decision to play an unproven kid over Bledsoe. Marv is bringing in "character" guys (which is a start), but the Patriots have a team full of "character" guys who are far above average NFL players. Big Difference. 626766[/snapback] I applaud your passion for the Bills and your desire to see a winning team in Buffalo (don't we all?), but you're going about it in the wrong way. Say what you will about the standpoint of another poster, but leave the personal attacks out of it. It does nothing to let that person see your point of view. All it does is show that you obviously have a "see it my way or no way" attitude about the topic being discussed. It gets hard to do sometimes in the face of repetitive posts that seem to add nothing to a discussion, but do your best to live and let live in the process of stating your opinion.
Lv-Bills Posted March 13, 2006 Posted March 13, 2006 I applaud your passion for the Bills and your desire to see a winning team in Buffalo (don't we all?), but you're going about it in the wrong way. Say what you will about the standpoint of another poster, but leave the personal attacks out of it. It does nothing to let that person see your point of view. All it does is show that you obviously have a "see it my way or no way" attitude about the topic being discussed. It gets hard to do sometimes in the face of repetitive posts that seem to add nothing to a discussion, but do your best to live and let live in the process of stating your opinion. 626778[/snapback] And I'm still looking for the personal attack in the above post. The reason it gets so frustrating, is because the personal attacks usually come the other way when someone doesn't agree with "the company line." Chicken littles, or they get belittled for raising questions about just who these below average players are. I'm so sick of the "are you in an NFL front office, do you really know what you are talking about responses?" I mean, if that's the case, Tom Donahoe is really no better than we are is he? He had no clue what he was doing either. I guess it really just kind of shows, that we really aren't all that far removed from these guys who judge talent either. Football isn't brain surgery as so many people try to make it out to be. But it doesn't take much more than a convenience store clerk to realize that three below average NFL players aren't going to put a 5-11 team over the top and into a first round bye in the NFL playoffs. Especially when we still haven't addressed our biggest needs and the rest of the league has already gobbled up over 125 free agents. But hey, be patient.
Lv-Bills Posted March 13, 2006 Posted March 13, 2006 We haven't had leadership in the front office or in the coaching staff either. That could have been a big part of why this team collapsed on itself when faced with the least bit of adversity. Get our players on the same page and let's see where they stack up with the rest of the AFC East teams. I'm certainly not writing off a complete turnaround of fortune for the Bills in 2006. 626774[/snapback] And this is very true. However, after the constant losing and meandering around, seemingly without direction, it does not help when you go out and get Dick Jauron. The cycle just continues and continues.
RkFast Posted March 13, 2006 Posted March 13, 2006 Football isn't brain surgery as so many people try to make it out to be. But it doesn't take much more than a convenience store clerk to realize that three below average NFL players aren't going to put a 5-11 team over the top and into a first round bye in the NFL playoffs. Especially when we still haven't addressed our biggest needs and the rest of the league has already gobbled up over 125 free agents. But hey, be patient. 626786[/snapback] Heres the gaping hole in the above argument. NOBODY is saying that the smaller moves to add role players and depth are the be-all-end-all Big Splash moves that are going to be "The Answer" to all the teams problems. YOU label them as such. YOU look at them to be something they are not. Marv bought a Civic to carry groceries on Saturday and youre bitching that its not the Corvette to go racing with on Sunday. You want all the "answers" now, done now, without delay. And if they are not "big" enough for you, or to your liking, or even done in the order you like, they automatically "suck" and prove this team is going nowhere. And whats worse, you use the past to judge whats going on now and worse than that, before the current event in question concludes! Free agency isnt even over yet and its labeled by you as a failure? The team still (theoretically) "sucks", the "major" needs not addressed, so the addition of another reciever automatically becomes one that has no merit. Thats irrational.
Lv-Bills Posted March 13, 2006 Posted March 13, 2006 Heres the gaping hole in the above argument. NOBODY is saying that the smaller moves to add role players and depth are the be-all-end-all Big Splash moves that are going to be "The Answer" to all the teams problems. YOU label them as such. YOU look at them to be something they are not. Marv bought a Civic to carry groceries on Saturday and youre bitching that its not the Corvette to go racing with on Sunday. 626805[/snapback] You're damn right I am. The Corvette's never go on sale or have special financing either, so when are we going to pony up for one? Never saw a Civic wow anyone, or win a race.
RkFast Posted March 13, 2006 Posted March 13, 2006 You're damn right I am. The Corvette's never go on sale or have special financing either, so when are we going to pony up for one? Never saw a Civic wow anyone, or win a race. 626808[/snapback] Its not supposed to! Thats the point. Its YOU that wants the Civic to win the race. Its YOU that demands these moves be something they are not. Both cars are important, are needed, have different capabilities, and bring something to the table. How can you claim to understand football, but not even understand the basic team concept that everyone has different roles and responsibilities?
1billsfan Posted March 13, 2006 Posted March 13, 2006 And this is very true. However, after the constant losing and meandering around, seemingly without direction, it does not help when you go out and get Dick Jauron. The cycle just continues and continues. 626797[/snapback] GW and Malarkey were into trickery and gimmicks which obviously went over like lead balloons with the players. At least Jauron seems like a straight shooter like Marv was, which I think this will do wonders for player performance and morale. To me, it felt like our last two coaches were too immature and sensitive to deal with a 53 man roster. In short, they were a couple of big babies. Here's to Jauron pulling a 180 on that trend.
Lv-Bills Posted March 13, 2006 Posted March 13, 2006 Its not supposed to! Thats the point. Its YOU that wants the Civic to win the race. Its YOU that demands these moves be something they are not. Both cars are important, are needed, have different capabilities, and bring something to the table. How can you claim to understand football, but not even understand the basic team concept that everyone has different roles and responsibilities? 626822[/snapback] Gimmie a break. You DO NOT add three sub-par NFL players to a team that was 5-11 and expect them to be role players that this team needs. What's the role here? To be role players to a bunch of players that already can't get it done? This team NEEDS studs. This team NEEDS LeCharles Bentley type players, and then, only after it has improved some, does it need these role players. If your #1 WR can go out and be elite (which Moulds isn't) and your #2 looks like he can someday be a #1 (which we think he maybe can, which isn't good enough) THEN you add Davis. You don't cut EVERY DT you friggin have and then add Larry Triplett. You stick Triplett NEXT to someone who can actually play the game at a high level. The Colts went out and got their Corvette with Corey Simon, and THEN Triplett was a decent role player. He was the Colts third option. Right now he's our first option. LeCharles Bentley, even if we overpayed him, or a player of his likeness, is more valuable to this team then the combo of Robert Royal and Triplett combined. Right now, we have a terrible line, and we just signed two more players that are at that same level. The Patriots have some Corvette's and then they added some Civics to the stable to do some dirty work. We have ZERO Corvette's. We need some badly, before we think about developing depth. All of this so called "depth", could have added up to a stud on the line that would have made a much bigger impact on third and a long one, then Royal, Davis, or Triplett.
IDBillzFan Posted March 13, 2006 Posted March 13, 2006 You DO NOT add three sub-par NFL players to a team that was 5-11 and expect them to be role players that this team needs. What's the role here? To be role players to a bunch of players that already can't get it done?626850[/snapback] I think your posts get tiresome to tards like me because of statements like this. You seem to be 100% certain that we have hired three sub-par players because they were sub-par somewhere else...or at the very least, by your own calculation. Exactly how many players can you name who were sub-par on one team and incredibly better on another? Or vice versa? How bad was Young in Tampa and how great in San Fran? Alternately, how great was Montana in San Fran and how bad in KC? How great was Marcellus Wiley in Buffalo and how crappy was he in San Diego? How great was Jr. Seau in San Diego and how crappy was he in Miami? I suppose the Cardinals will now be a playoff team because they have Edge in the backfield. Clearly that is the one signing they needed to move them forward...according to your way of thinking...and they will now barrel through the playoffs making all their competition look like they're standing still. Your ability to predict the future is every bit as accurate as Miss Cleo. But I'm a tard, so I should spend more time learning from your mistakes than arguing them.
R. Rich Posted March 13, 2006 Posted March 13, 2006 I think your posts get tiresome to tards like me because of statements like this. You seem to be 100% certain that we have hired three sub-par players because they were sub-par somewhere else...or at the very least, by your own calculation. Exactly how many players can you name who were sub-par on one team and incredibly better on another? Or vice versa? How bad was Young in Tampa and how great in San Fran? Alternately, how great was Montana in San Fran and how bad in KC? How great was Marcellus Wiley in Buffalo and how crappy was he in San Diego? How great was Jr. Seau in San Diego and how crappy was he in Miami? I suppose the Cardinals will now be a playoff team because they have Edge in the backfield. Clearly that is the one signing they needed to move them forward...according to your way of thinking...and they will now barrel through the playoffs making all their competition look like they're standing still. Your ability to predict the future is every bit as accurate as Miss Cleo. But I'm a tard, so I should spend more time learning from your mistakes than arguing them. 626882[/snapback] You bring up some intriguing issues there, tard.
RuntheDamnBall Posted March 13, 2006 Posted March 13, 2006 Heres the gaping hole in the above argument. NOBODY is saying that the smaller moves to add role players and depth are the be-all-end-all Big Splash moves that are going to be "The Answer" to all the teams problems. YOU label them as such. YOU look at them to be something they are not. Marv bought a Civic to carry groceries on Saturday and youre bitching that its not the Corvette to go racing with on Sunday. You want all the "answers" now, done now, without delay. And if they are not "big" enough for you, or to your liking, or even done in the order you like, they automatically "suck" and prove this team is going nowhere. And whats worse, you use the past to judge whats going on now and worse than that, before the current event in question concludes! Free agency isnt even over yet and its labeled by you as a failure? The team still (theoretically) "sucks", the "major" needs not addressed, so the addition of another reciever automatically becomes one that has no merit. Thats irrational. 626805[/snapback] Great post. This is going to take time, boys. I'll reserve some judgement for after the draft, and the rest for when we see the product on the field. The bitching is unwarranted, or, at the very least, early. Now if Jerman's in the starting lineup come opening day, get out the heavy artillery.
Nanker Posted March 13, 2006 Posted March 13, 2006 I see. So we shoudl pay 31 million for a WR that caught 35 passes last year, has never caught more than 47 in 1 season, and who has 7 career TD's? 626741[/snapback] Roughly $1 million per pass. I'll pass.
MRW Posted March 13, 2006 Posted March 13, 2006 Gimmie a break. You DO NOT add three sub-par NFL players to a team that was 5-11 and expect them to be role players that this team needs. What's the role here? To be role players to a bunch of players that already can't get it done? 626850[/snapback] Why not? I mean, you keep arguing this point, but I just don't see the logic. I would hope the front office is capable of multi-tasking to some degree. Now, it may be that this was their entire plan all along, and we've added our "big name" free agents and we're done. If that's the case, then we're hosed. But I'm going to wait and see what they do before I start blasting the new administration.
Lv-Bills Posted March 13, 2006 Posted March 13, 2006 I think your posts get tiresome to tards like me because of statements like this. You seem to be 100% certain that we have hired three sub-par players because they were sub-par somewhere else...or at the very least, by your own calculation. Exactly how many players can you name who were sub-par on one team and incredibly better on another? Or vice versa? How bad was Young in Tampa and how great in San Fran? Alternately, how great was Montana in San Fran and how bad in KC? How great was Marcellus Wiley in Buffalo and how crappy was he in San Diego? How great was Jr. Seau in San Diego and how crappy was he in Miami? I suppose the Cardinals will now be a playoff team because they have Edge in the backfield. Clearly that is the one signing they needed to move them forward...according to your way of thinking...and they will now barrel through the playoffs making all their competition look like they're standing still. Your ability to predict the future is every bit as accurate as Miss Cleo. But I'm a tard, so I should spend more time learning from your mistakes than arguing them. 626882[/snapback] No. Young was behind a bad line and a young hotshot QB in Tampa. It was hard for him to get on the field because of circumstances and an ownership group that wouldn't commit to him. Montana was a playoff QB in KC and while not in his prime, was still very serviceable. Seau was old in Miami, period. The edge to Arizona is a great move, yes. When you add the edge in Arizona with those two great WR's, it's just something else to really worry about. Much closer to a playoff team than us? You bet your ass they are. No doubt. Edge can not only run, but is also another threat to catch the ball alongside of maybe the already best 1-2 punch in the league. Not to mention they had trouble putting the ball in the endzone last year and settled for FG's alot. They have line trouble too, but adding a hard running, all around back will help them more than a Willis McGahee will help our poruous line. Wiley, yeah, you have a point. No one knows what happened to him, however, it wasn't necessarily a bad signing based on judging his past performance. We are talking about adding three guys, that have never performed and have been let go from teams for underachieving. In Davis' case, this is his third team. Judging by the Skins, if they really wanted Royal, they would have found a way to keep him. I mean, come on. Triplett was replaced in Indy, by a guy that was thought to be the main reason Indy would finally get to the Super Bowl. At that point, Triplett became good depth, because he actually was behind two NFL starting caliber DT's. Now, since most of your posts are based around smartass comments, let's go the other way. Think, for instance of all the NFL players that have sucked on one team and still sucked on the team they've gone to another team. They are endless. They aren't as recognizable because they are never good, period, so how do you indentify them? But in honor of "your game", let's try......and I don't even need to go back 25 years, we can just do it on our current / almost current roster........How about a guy like Trey Teague considered a suckass LT in Denver, coming here, and pretty much sucking in Buffalo too? Does he count? How about Mark Campbell pretty much being a zero in Cleveland and then coming here and pretty much also being a zero? What about Bennie Anderson, who caught the ire of the Ravens fans, media and head coach also sucking there and then coming here and also sucking ass? Wasn't Posey average in Houston and very very mediocre at best here in Buffalo? How about Billy Shaw? Average somewhere else, and non-existant here in Buffalo? Believe this list is a lot longer than guys you've named. This list goes on and on and on too. But, while our O-Line needs addressed......guess what? We are pretty much down to our own versions of the over-the-hill Junior Seau's and Joe Montana's of the world out there. Jon Runyan anyone? There are many 30 plus year olds out there meandering around, since everyone else is gone. But hey, be patient, we got three guys that are the envy of the league. One of which, by his own admission, wasn't even on the radar screen of one other team to that point. And history will again repeat itself again, unless a miracle happens at this point.
R. Rich Posted March 13, 2006 Posted March 13, 2006 How about Billy Shaw? Average somewhere else, and non-existant here in Buffalo? 627007[/snapback] Yeah. He sucked in Buffalo.
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