Bob Lamb Posted March 6, 2006 Posted March 6, 2006 Fair enough. Of course, paying the "dead head" time for an empty cruise ship to sail from whatever locality people actually want to cruise too up to Buffalo is probably prohibitively expensive as well. And believe it or not, many modern cruise ships aren't able to tarverse the Welland Canal any more - which was built for thinner cargo vessels than modern cruise ships. JDG 619326[/snapback] The locks are 24.4 metres wide - barely 80 feet wide
The Dean Posted March 6, 2006 Posted March 6, 2006 I think all the talk of a Super Bowl in Buffalo is ridiculous. The city would have to do some major surgery to it's national image before there's even a prayer of it happening. Some things woud have to happen first: 1) New stadium with roof 2) Take Chippawa Street and multiply it at least 10 times 3) Some more hotels, however bringing some cruise ships and docking them near the arena could be a viable temporary solution. 4) Build some nice casinos 5) Adopt the same rules governing Canadian strip clubs: everything off, full-contact! 6) No last call during Super Bowl week. Booze 24/7! 7) Make sure that all the stadium, hotel rooms, nightclubs, strip joints, and restaurants are all in close proximity to each other so people don't have to drive all over to get to a party. Do all that and MAYBE you'd have a shot at a Super Bowl. PTR 619261[/snapback] Let's adresses these point-by-point: #1 Dome: You are probably right here and that's really the only true sticky point with Buffalo (other than it's image). I think Buffalo should reject this option and say "to hell with it". There should never be a dome in Buffalo or Green Bay (or Pittsburgh, etc.). #2-4, some of 5, +#7) All of this already exists in Niagara Falls, Ontario. The real benefactor of any additions would and SHOULD be Niagara Falls, NY. That's the place where downtown hotels and entertainment upgrades are necessary...and where they will be of used after the Super Bowl. The Bills are WNY's team and any speculation of a SB in WNY has to use both sides of the Falls to host the guests. The rest of #5 and #6. I know you were joking...but...last call in Erie County is 4am seven days a week. Niagara Falls is either 2a or 3a depending on the night (unless things have changed in the past year). That's as late as anywhere in the country except Las Vegas, as far as I know. Strips clubs really aren't an issue, but are there in abundance in NF Ontario and Fort Erie. I have no problem with changing or relaxing the rules for nudie bars...but, i don't think it makes one bit of difference as far as the SB goes.
sfladave Posted March 6, 2006 Author Posted March 6, 2006 The Kansas City Metro Area, by some measures, is about 50% larger than either the Jacksonville or Buffalo metro areas. I'm sure that helps generate a lot more hotel rooms than either. JDG 619258[/snapback] Not too far off with your numbers JDG. I thought you were way over estimating KC and underestimating Buffalo and in particular Jacksonville. Numbers don't lie though! Metro area ranking in the US, and population of that metro area. 27. Kansas City MO-KS 1,925,319 42. Jacksonville FL 1,225,381 45. Buffalo-Niagara Falls NY 1,154,378 BTW Rochester ranks 49th with 1,041,499 Topping the list 1. New York-Northern New Jersey-Long Island NY-NJ-PA 18,709,802
The Dean Posted March 6, 2006 Posted March 6, 2006 Not too far off with your numbers JDG. I thought you were way over estimating KC and underestimating Buffalo and in particular Jacksonville. Numbers don't lie though! Metro area ranking in the US, and population of that metro area. 27. Kansas City MO-KS 1,925,319 42. Jacksonville FL 1,225,381 45. Buffalo-Niagara Falls NY 1,154,378 BTW Rochester ranks 49th with 1,041,499 Topping the list 1. New York-Northern New Jersey-Long Island NY-NJ-PA 18,709,802 619488[/snapback] FYI, Buffalo-NF numbers do NOT include the population of Southern Ontario.
The Senator Posted March 6, 2006 Posted March 6, 2006 Cruise ships can access Buffalo through the St.Lawrence Seaway and the Wellend Canal. While there is no official cruise ship dock, large ocean-going freighters can easily dock in the Union Canal and Buffalo River. I didn't say it was easy. Just possible. PTR 619296[/snapback] Actually, they probably could not dock there - or anywhere near shore. While we have no problem with shallow-bottomed lake freighters, ocean-going vessels are another story. Two years ago, they had to dredge the Buffalo River twice just to move the U.S.S. Little Rock about a hundred yards - modern cruise ships are much more massive. In fact, I remember when I lived in Boston back in the mid-80's - Digital Equipment Corp. brought in the QE2 and a Disney ship to serve as floating hotels next to Commonwealth Pier, and they had to dredge the channel in Boston Harbor to get them in. No freakin' way you're gonna get a cruise ship down the Buffalo River!
sfladave Posted March 6, 2006 Author Posted March 6, 2006 FYI, Buffalo-NF numbers do NOT include the population of Southern Ontario. 619505[/snapback] Good point! If you add Southern Ontario, Toronto and Rochester areas, which is realistic, we become the 4th largest metroploitan area in North America with over 11 million in population. "Extended Golden Horseshoe Under the most recent defiintions, the population was 7,910,585 in the 2001 census with an estimated popluation of 8,600,000 as of 2006, of these people approximately 5,600,000 live in the Greater Toronto Area. Following the guidlines of the Metropolitan Combined Statistical Areas, it's the 5th most populated greater combined urban area in North America after New York City, Mexico City, Los Angeles, and Chicago. There is a further, but less used definition which extends across the border into western New York state, including the Buffalo-Niagara Area and Rochester, New York urban areas. The total population in this definition is almost 11 million (hence the 4th most populous urbanized region in North America)."
JDG Posted March 7, 2006 Posted March 7, 2006 Not too far off with your numbers JDG. I thought you were way over estimating KC and underestimating Buffalo and in particular Jacksonville. Numbers don't lie though! Metro area ranking in the US, and population of that metro area. 27. Kansas City MO-KS 1,925,319 42. Jacksonville FL 1,225,381 45. Buffalo-Niagara Falls NY 1,154,378 BTW Rochester ranks 49th with 1,041,499 Topping the list 1. New York-Northern New Jersey-Long Island NY-NJ-PA 18,709,802 619488[/snapback] Heck, I guess that I lowballed it at 50%...... JDG
The Senator Posted March 7, 2006 Posted March 7, 2006 The Bills are WNY's team and any speculation of a SB in WNY has to use both sides of the Falls to host the guests. 619442[/snapback] You are probably not familiar with last season's horror stories of Canadian fans getting an early start to RWS, only to sit on the bridges for hours - steam wafting up off their heads as they listen to the game on the radio while bemoaning their cursed fates! The whole border-crossing thing puts an insurmountable kink in the bi-national hotel plan, methinks. So that and the cruise ships are 'off the table', IMHO. The only solution - turn all of OP into one big RV parking lot!!!
JDG Posted March 7, 2006 Posted March 7, 2006 FYI, Buffalo-NF numbers do NOT include the population of Southern Ontario. 619505[/snapback] But the NFL ain't gonna consider hotel rooms in Southern Ontario in considering a Super Bowl for Buffalo either. JDG
JDG Posted March 7, 2006 Posted March 7, 2006 Good point! If you add Southern Ontario, Toronto and Rochester areas, which is realistic, we become the 4th largest metroploitan area in North America with over 11 million in population. Good grief - it's a 100 mile drive from Buffalo to Toronto. A similar radius from Philadelphia would include Baltimore and New York City. It only becomes the 4th largest metro area if nobody else gets a 100 mile metro area radius. JDG
sfladave Posted March 7, 2006 Author Posted March 7, 2006 Good grief - it's a 100 mile drive from Buffalo to Toronto. A similar radius from Philadelphia would include Baltimore and New York City. It only becomes the 4th largest metro area if nobody else gets a 100 mile metro area radius. JDG 619530[/snapback] Well I was going to stretch it to include Erie, PA too, then I thought why not include Pittsburgh... it has this snow ball effect! edit: With that being said, just how big an area is LA metro or NY metro or the Miami, Ft Lauderdale and West Palm beach metro(I know this is over 100 miles from one end to the other)?
The Dean Posted March 7, 2006 Posted March 7, 2006 But the NFL ain't gonna consider hotel rooms in Southern Ontario in considering a Super Bowl for Buffalo either. JDG 619528[/snapback] The absolutely would consider the population of Southern Ontario (perhaps even Toronto) and MAY consider those hotel rooms if there was demonstrated progress on the birdges from Fort Erie to Buffalo and NF to NF. Of course, the crowds coming to the SB would likely not be in cars, but in luxury buses and limos. The redevelopment of Niagara Falls NY would have to play an intregal part in this, IMO.
The Senator Posted March 7, 2006 Posted March 7, 2006 They absolutely would consider the population of Southern Ontario (perhaps even Toronto) and MAY consider those hotel rooms if there was demonstrated progress on the bridges from Fort Erie to Buffalo and NF to NF. Of course, the crowds coming to the SB would likely not be in cars, but in luxury buses and limos. 619546[/snapback] Much as I would like to, I still don't see any sort of bi-national, border-crossing logistics ever worked out - particularly with the game being such a terrorisim target. This wouldn't be like a typical crossing coming back from your cottage in Crystal Beach - the customs check would be thorough and time consuming. Heck...there's still talk that, in a few years, every American will need a Passport to cross from Canada into the U.S. The only way this works is to take ECC South by eminent domain, combine it with Lot 2 - and maybe Hammer's Lot as well - and turn the whole darn thing into a giant RV complex - w/showers, sanitation hookups, the whole nine yards! That way, people can get here a week ahead of time and tailgate for days! Now that would be a unique Superbowl experience, no?
sfladave Posted March 7, 2006 Author Posted March 7, 2006 Much as I would like to, I still don't see any sort of bi-national, border-crossing logistics ever worked out - particularly with the game being such a terrorisim target. This wouldn't be like a typical crossing coming back from your cottage in Crystal Beach - the customs check would be thorough and time consuming. Heck...there's still talk that, in a few years, every American will need a Passport to cross from Canada into the U.S. The only way this works is to take ECC South by eminent domain, combine it with Lot 2 - and maybe Hammer's Lot as well - and turn the whole darn thing into a giant RV complex - w/showers, sanitation hookups, the whole nine yards! That way, people can get here a week ahead of time and tailgate for days! Now that would be a unique Superbowl experience, no? 619575[/snapback] Sounds like a blast to me but I doubt most of the SB attendees would be so inclined to stay in an RV park for the duration of their stay. I still think that the SB should be played in the home stadium of the participating team who has the best overall record. Then and probably only then would Buffalo have a chance to host a SB. It would ultimately make the last few games of the season better. It would make meaningless games in weeks 16 and 17 a lot more meaningful when teams have to consider their record ultimately matches up against the entire league instead of just their conference.
The Senator Posted March 7, 2006 Posted March 7, 2006 Sounds like a blast to me but I doubt most of the SB attendees would be so inclined to stay in an RV park for the duration of their stay. I still think that the SB should be played in the home stadium of the participating team who has the best overall record. Then and probably only then would Buffalo have a chance to host a SB. It would ultimately make the last few games of the season better. It would make meaningless games in weeks 16 and 17 a lot more meaningful when teams have to consider their record ultimately matches up against the entire league instead of just their conference. 619592[/snapback] But you make it sound so unappealing - that's the problem with Buffalo and its lack of vision! I'm not talking about just any RV park here... Are you suggesting that the IBM's, Cisco's, AT&T's, Morgan Stanley's, etc., etc., wouldn't go for the 'luxury RV concept' to 'wine & dine' their clients? They can't close a multi-million $$$ deal or complete a mega-merger over wings, a keg, and an outhouse???? You don't think the typical 'upper-crust' attendee will go for the "Superbowl...Buffalo-Style!!!" concept of partying for 4 or 5 days in a parking lot...in Orchard Park, NY...in the dead of Winter - early February???!!!! Damn!!! Thought I had somethin' there...
The Dean Posted March 7, 2006 Posted March 7, 2006 But you make it sound so unappealing - that's the problem with Buffalo and its lack of vision! I'm not talking about just any RV park here... Are you suggesting that the IBM's, Cisco's, AT&T's, Morgan Stanley's, etc., etc., wouldn't go for the 'luxury RV concept' to 'wine & dine' their clients? They can't close a multi-million $$$ deal or complete a mega-merger over wings, a keg, and an outhouse???? You don't think the typical 'upper-crust' attendee will go for the "Superbowl...Buffalo-Style!!!" concept of partying for 4 or 5 days in a parking lot...in Orchard Park, NY...in the dead of Winter - early February???!!!! Damn!!! Thought I had somethin' there... 619615[/snapback] You'd have a better chance asking to walk from Niagara Falls.
sfladave Posted March 7, 2006 Author Posted March 7, 2006 But you make it sound so unappealing - that's the problem with Buffalo and its lack of vision! I'm not talking about just any RV park here... Are you suggesting that the IBM's, Cisco's, AT&T's, Morgan Stanley's, etc., etc., wouldn't go for the 'luxury RV concept' to 'wine & dine' their clients? They can't close a multi-million $$$ deal or complete a mega-merger over wings, a keg, and an outhouse???? You don't think the typical 'upper-crust' attendee will go for the "Superbowl...Buffalo-Style!!!" concept of partying for 4 or 5 days in a parking lot...in Orchard Park, NY...in the dead of Winter - early February???!!!! Damn!!! Thought I had somethin' there... 619615[/snapback] You are on to something! It is time to bring the SB back to the fans, not the big wigs, the CEOs, the sponsors, the politicians and especially not the Senators!
The Senator Posted March 7, 2006 Posted March 7, 2006 You are on to something! 619631[/snapback] You bet I am...I can just hear Tony Masiello and Andrew Rudnick, as they lick their chops, "Hey, Joel...how many RVs you think we can fit on ECC South???"
JDG Posted March 7, 2006 Posted March 7, 2006 The absolutely would consider the population of Southern Ontario (perhaps even Toronto) and MAY consider those hotel rooms if there was demonstrated progress on the birdges from Fort Erie to Buffalo and NF to NF. I highly doubt it. The Super Bowl is a week-long event, now even two weeks. The NFL does not want people commuting from Niagara Falls to Buffalo each day, let alone across the border. JDG
sfladave Posted March 7, 2006 Author Posted March 7, 2006 I highly doubt it. The Super Bowl is a week-long event, now even two weeks. The NFL does not want people commuting from Niagara Falls to Buffalo each day, let alone across the border. JDG 619655[/snapback] As opposed to hanging out in downtown Detroit or the entire state of Minnesota?
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