Ghost of BiB Posted March 3, 2006 Posted March 3, 2006 10th grade should be old enough to think. By the time I was in the 10th grade, I was already running a crime syndicate and had an invasion of Mexico figured out. Some teaching still needs to go on at home. How many parents are discussing the news with their kids? What are they hearing in Social Studies (or whatever it's called now)? Maybe not the same, but Darlene and I used to take an actual globe and talk about how things going on in "A" were influencing things going on in "B". Linking events to the colors on the map is an excellent way to bring relevance to them. It's amazing how much those big blue spots to the left and right of the US have affected things for a couple hundred years. Nice memory tool. I can see where it could be easy to cross the line, though. Many of you have heard my geo-political takes over the past 5 years or so. I can only imagine what would happen if I were teaching the class. Of course if I had my way, the map would look a lot different. Point being, it's one platform out of many and should be folded into context. If there is any real valuable lesson for the youngun's, it's to learn to fit that perspective along with others to discover the gaps and contradictions so they can develop an idea themselves.
Johnny Coli Posted March 3, 2006 Posted March 3, 2006 Let's say he came out and said "The blacks are the cause of all the social ills in America. And lookee here at this map of Africa, that's where they come from and that's where they need to go. I'm just throwing that out there for you to learn and discuss." How do you think that would go over? 617109[/snapback] I think the kids would be shocked, and would hope that they would go show him where that line of thinking is wrong, as the guy in your example asks them to do at the end. What you're doing, and others are doing, is taking a 20 minute sampling of a class in January. How do you know that he hasn't already reached some level of rapour (sic?) with these students? It's not like this is Geography class, day one. I'm assuming they've had him for the fall already, and that this is a year-long class. If he had started the year off with a rant out of nowhere in front of kids seeing him for the first time, then yeah, he'd be pretty shocking. But, from the numbers of students who walked out to protest his suspension, I'd say they weren't all that shocked, and his style clearly got through to them. Good teachers make their students think. Good teachers make their students form an opinion. One kid secretly tapes a class (gee, wonder where he got the idea to record a conversation without consent?) and brings it to a conservative talk show. That, to me, is more shocking than what this guy did for a lesson plan. "Look at the dissenting free thinker! Liberal! Liberal! He's making me learn and think for myself!" I will say this one more time. In two years, these kids get to vote, and get to go to war if they so choose. I see nothing wrong with engaging them in a discussion in international geo-politics.
SilverNRed Posted March 3, 2006 Posted March 3, 2006 But, from the numbers of students who walked out to protest his suspension, I'd say they weren't all that shocked, and his style clearly got through to them. Good teachers make their students think. Good teachers make their students form an opinion. 617230[/snapback] Not necessarily. Maybe they like him because he's a good teacher (obviously I disagree) or maybe they like him because he's the "cool" teacher who would rather be their friend before anything else. I've had teachers I liked at the time who, in retrospect, weren't teaching me all that much. Plus the fact that a student decided to record his rant means it probably wasn't the first one he's gone on. He isn't teaching them to think; he's teaching them the exact wrong way to think. Bumper stickers.
erynthered Posted March 3, 2006 Author Posted March 3, 2006 Not necessarily. Maybe they like him because he's a good teacher (obviously I disagree) or maybe they like him because he's the "cool" teacher who would rather be their friend before anything else. I've had teachers I liked at the time who, in retrospect, weren't teaching me all that much. Plus the fact that a student decided to record his rant means it probably wasn't the first one he's gone on. He isn't teaching them to think; he's teaching them the exact wrong way to think. Bumper stickers. 617315[/snapback] The student said that he recorded the lecture so he could refer back to it, instead of taking notes. But, I have a feeling his parents were behind the taping.
Ghost of BiB Posted March 3, 2006 Posted March 3, 2006 The student said that he recorded the lecture so he could refer back to it, instead of taking notes. But, I have a feeling his parents were behind the taping. 617340[/snapback] Better hang on to that blue dress.
OGTEleven Posted March 3, 2006 Posted March 3, 2006 I think the kids would be shocked, and would hope that they would go show him where that line of thinking is wrong, as the guy in your example asks them to do at the end. What you're doing, and others are doing, is taking a 20 minute sampling of a class in January. How do you know that he hasn't already reached some level of rapour (sic?) with these students? It's not like this is Geography class, day one. I'm assuming they've had him for the fall already, and that this is a year-long class. If he had started the year off with a rant out of nowhere in front of kids seeing him for the first time, then yeah, he'd be pretty shocking. But, from the numbers of students who walked out to protest his suspension, I'd say they weren't all that shocked, and his style clearly got through to them. Good teachers make their students think. Good teachers make their students form an opinion. One kid secretly tapes a class (gee, wonder where he got the idea to record a conversation without consent?) and brings it to a conservative talk show. That, to me, is more shocking than what this guy did for a lesson plan. "Look at the dissenting free thinker! Liberal! Liberal! He's making me learn and think for myself!" I will say this one more time. In two years, these kids get to vote, and get to go to war if they so choose. I see nothing wrong with engaging them in a discussion in international geo-politics. 617230[/snapback] Rapport I have a few problems with the content of his diatribe, but by and large making kids think is a good thing and outweighs the fact that he is a loon. If the teacher makes you think, who cares if he is a loon? IMO, geography class is not the perfect setting, but it's not too bad. I can see how it relates depending on the rest of the curriculum. My concerns with the actual content: He defines capitalism "from the dictionary". He defines it incorrectly. He then states that it does not fulfill the basic human needs of everyone on the planet like any good economic system would. His tone sucks. Although he throws in 2-3 "good point"'s and "form your own opinions", it is basically a 20 minute session where he is LOUDLY and aggressively running down the US. Someone loud and aggressive in a position of relative power is not typically someone looking for stimulating conversation. I don't really think he was. A couple of side notes: Decaf He needs to get laid. As a side note to Coli: My high school had good teachers who stirred debate. I feel bad that yours didn't. The only people that didn't engage at my school were burned out losers from bad neighboorhoods. Other than them, pretty much everything was perfect.
RkFast Posted March 3, 2006 Posted March 3, 2006 Not necessarily. Maybe they like him because he's a good teacher (obviously I disagree) or maybe they like him because he's the "cool" teacher who would rather be their friend before anything else. I've had teachers I liked at the time who, in retrospect, weren't teaching me all that much. Plus the fact that a student decided to record his rant means it probably wasn't the first one he's gone on. He isn't teaching them to think; he's teaching them the exact wrong way to think. Bumper stickers. 617315[/snapback] And lets not view the student's walking out as some great sign that what this clown was spewing had merit. Kids will protest not being able to wear their favorite t-shirt, fer chrissakes. Im really loving the POV that what this clown was putting forth had merit in an educational environment by those who are members of the same political sect who suspended a teacher for having a picture of the President (with past Presidents, too) on her blackboard or fall over and faint if they find out the word "God" was even whispered in an educational context. "The USA is a terrible, terrible place, responsible for ALL the World's ills" is a "good POV that fosters a good educational environment" but "The World MAY have been created by a higher power" is "an intolerant, bogus opinion, forwarded by close-minded teachers force-feeding their agenda on our children". Got it.
Johnny Coli Posted March 3, 2006 Posted March 3, 2006 As a side note to Coli: My high school had good teachers who stirred debate. I feel bad that yours didn't. The only people that didn't engage at my school were burned out losers from bad neighboorhoods. Other than them, pretty much everything was perfect. 617352[/snapback] Well now. Since we grew up in the same town (can't remember if we went to the same HS), I'm gonna take that as a shot across my bow, sir.
ASCI Posted March 3, 2006 Posted March 3, 2006 I wish I had a teacher like this that attempted to engage the class more when I was in high school. I didn't see this style until college. IMHO, I truly believe the kids at that age can handle this kind of a discussion. He had a ton of support from his students when he was suspended. He got through to them. That's good teaching. 616863[/snapback] I really don’t believe he's teaching. Putting all the facts on the table, allowing a look at both sides of the political spectrum, that’s teaching. Making a case for one side and completely discarding the other side, that’s indoctrination.
YellowLinesandArmadillos Posted March 3, 2006 Posted March 3, 2006 "The USA is a terrible, terrible place, responsible for ALL the World's ills" is a "good POV that fosters a good educational environment" 617354[/snapback] I can't believe that I am agreeing with you on this point, but that part was a little too much, however, it is not the first time that I have heard it, and it comes from both the ultra left and ultra right. The arguement goes that there are a finite number of resources in the World and the U.S. let alone Capitalism will never, out of self interest, share enough to help out the impoverished 90% of the rest of the World. That is where his arguement ultimately leads and that all conflicts are a result of this competition for those finite resources.
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted March 3, 2006 Posted March 3, 2006 I can't believe that I am agreeing with you on this point, but that part was a little too much, however, it is not the first time that I have heard it, and it comes from both the ultra left and ultra right. The arguement goes that there are a finite number of resources in the World and the U.S. let alone Capitalism will never, out of self interest, share enough to help out the impoverished 90% of the rest of the World. That is where his arguement ultimately leads and that all conflicts are a result of this competition for those finite resources. 617475[/snapback] What this moron forgets is that there aren't a whole lot of competing economic systems out there. Communism was a horrible failure, especially when you consider their "environmental stewardship". Socialism? Ask how that's working out in Europe. I know! Let's go back to Feudalism! That worked!
YellowLinesandArmadillos Posted March 3, 2006 Posted March 3, 2006 What this moron forgets is that there aren't a whole lot of competing economic systems out there. Communism was a horrible failure, especially when you consider their "environmental stewardship". Socialism? Ask how that's working out in Europe. I know! Let's go back to Feudalism! That worked! 617483[/snapback] Yep, not much as far as alternatives, given the alternatives, I choose to live in the USA with capitalism and a form of democracy with all its warts.
OGTEleven Posted March 3, 2006 Posted March 3, 2006 Well now. Since we grew up in the same town (can't remember if we went to the same HS), I'm gonna take that as a shot across my bow, sir. 617463[/snapback] You're a quick one.
Johnny Coli Posted March 3, 2006 Posted March 3, 2006 And lets not view the student's walking out as some great sign that what this clown was spewing had merit. Kids will protest not being able to wear their favorite t-shirt, fer chrissakes. 617354[/snapback] As usual, you're all over the map, which is kind of ironic considering the topic. Over 100 kids walked out to protest his suspension. Your take is that they were just being stupid kids. My take is to give them a little more credit for being young adults that wanted to show support for their teacher. My interpretation seems to jive better with the actual AP report...the one that says "Students stage walk-out to show support for Colorado high school teacher." You're right. Probably the liberal media making it up. Im really loving the POV that what this clown was putting forth had merit in an educational environment by those who are members of the same political sect who suspended a teacher for having a picture of the President (with past Presidents, too) on her blackboard or fall over and faint if they find out the word "God" was even whispered in an educational context. 617354[/snapback] You should take up your beef about seperation of church and state with the Supreme Court, and their interpretation of the First Amendment. You'll have to link to the story about the teacher and the picture of the President. I don't recall hearing about it, but it sounds like the teacher got screwed if that's all there was to the story. "The USA is a terrible, terrible place, responsible for ALL the World's ills" is a "good POV that fosters a good educational environment" but "The World MAY have been created by a higher power" is "an intolerant, bogus opinion, forwarded by close-minded teachers force-feeding their agenda on our children". Got it. 617354[/snapback] You're confusing several issues here. I believe a discussion involving the US and international geo-politics is perfectly reasonable to have in a high school geography class. As I previously replied to Joe, I'd have no issue if the teacher came from the other extreme. I think it's a good teaching technique. You don't. We'll have to agree to disagree, but I think you've got more of a problem with his side of the argument because it's not your view. That's just an educated guess, after having read many of your rants on this board. The problem with your second example is that a discussion of creationism doesn't belong in a science class. It belongs in a theology, or a philosophy class. I don't give a damn about people discussing creationism, as long as it's not done in a science class.
Johnny Coli Posted March 3, 2006 Posted March 3, 2006 You're a quick one. 617499[/snapback] "Burnout", huh? Good shot. You liked it there, I hated every second I lived there. To each his own.
Alaska Darin Posted March 3, 2006 Posted March 3, 2006 I think the kids would be shocked, and would hope that they would go show him where that line of thinking is wrong, as the guy in your example asks them to do at the end. What you're doing, and others are doing, is taking a 20 minute sampling of a class in January. How do you know that he hasn't already reached some level of rapour (sic?) with these students? It's not like this is Geography class, day one. I'm assuming they've had him for the fall already, and that this is a year-long class. If he had started the year off with a rant out of nowhere in front of kids seeing him for the first time, then yeah, he'd be pretty shocking. But, from the numbers of students who walked out to protest his suspension, I'd say they weren't all that shocked, and his style clearly got through to them. Good teachers make their students think. Good teachers make their students form an opinion. One kid secretly tapes a class (gee, wonder where he got the idea to record a conversation without consent?) and brings it to a conservative talk show. That, to me, is more shocking than what this guy did for a lesson plan. "Look at the dissenting free thinker! Liberal! Liberal! He's making me learn and think for myself!" I will say this one more time. In two years, these kids get to vote, and get to go to war if they so choose. I see nothing wrong with engaging them in a discussion in international geo-politics. 617230[/snapback] I wonder how your argument would change if the teacher were espousing Republican "values"...
OGTEleven Posted March 3, 2006 Posted March 3, 2006 "Burnout", huh? Good shot. You liked it there, I hated every second I lived there. To each his own. 617519[/snapback] You realize I was kidding correct?
RkFast Posted March 3, 2006 Posted March 3, 2006 Over 100 kids walked out to protest his suspension. Your take is that they were just being stupid kids. My take is to give them a little more credit for being young adults that wanted to show support for their teacher. My interpretation seems to jive better with the actual AP report...the one that says "Students stage walk-out to show support for Colorado high school teacher." You're right. Probably the liberal media making it up. "Im right, youre wrong". Thats basically what you just said to back up your argument here. And youre using...an AP headline as your backup??!!?? Becuase press headline clippings do SUCH a good job of giving "the true story". You should take up your beef about seperation of church and state with the Supreme Court, and their interpretation of the First Amendment. You'll have to link to the story about the teacher and the picture of the President. I don't recall hearing about it, but it sounds like the teacher got screwed if that's all there was to the story. Funny, I dont recall saying that religion should be taught in public schools. I was going for how the mere acknowledgement of a higher power forces you to throw yourself off the ledge. Thanks for illustrating my point on that one. You're confusing several issues here. I believe a discussion involving the US and international geo-politics is perfectly reasonable to have in a high school geography class. As I previously replied to Joe, I'd have no issue if the teacher came from the other extreme. I think it's a good teaching technique. You don't. We'll have to agree to disagree, but I think you've got more of a problem with his side of the argument because it's not your view. That's just an educated guess, after having read many of your rants on this board. Youre wrong. See...the example Ive given to counter your argument is not even one I believe in. I dont think ID should be taught in science class. I used it to show how whats one person's "reason for outrage" is another's "rational discussion." Regardless, what this professor is way out there. It wasnt a debate he was putting forth and it was an extremist POV. Now...if you want to talk about the contents of what was said, how it seems the idea that "USA IS SATAN" is so en vougue these days, Ill be happy to discuss. I cant even get through an episode of most of the dramas on TV or go to a movie without getting slammed over the head with THAT hammer over and over.
Johnny Coli Posted March 3, 2006 Posted March 3, 2006 I wonder how your argument would change if the teacher were espousing Republican "values"... 617527[/snapback] "Values" or "Views"? Important distinction. Discussing whether the Iraq war was an act of aggression vs. a proactive strike against terrorism is a far cry from "God hates fags." I'd have no problem if his "rant" was taken right out of Karl Rove's Book of Manifestos. Wouldn't it lead to the same discussion in a class studying the politics of geography as this guy's "rant" should have? If this was just some guy shooting his mouth , and not this guy's standard MO, then I'll be the first to admit I was wrong. I'd back the teaching style, though. But, so far, only one kid had a problem with it, and over 100 backed their teacher. We'll have to wait and see how the investigation plays out.
Recommended Posts