Vernon Davis vs. Haloti Ngata

[apuszczalowski]

If you bring depth to a hole, doesn't that effectively "plug" the hole?

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I guess I chose the wrong wording for it.

 

What I meant was that if you are drafting for depth it will be to backup and eventually replace a player. Like bringing in Ngata to backup and replace Sam Adams (if Adams is around next season) and by hole I meant to immediately come in and replace a player that has departed or has been a bust (Mike Williams, Bennie Anderson)

 

The holes should be filled with FA's who can come in and immediately have an impact on a team, where the draft should be to bring in the depth players who will come in and be slowly integrated into the starting lineup. I'm not saying a first year player can't beat out a veteran for the starting job during training camp, just that you should be drafting and handing the job over to the first year player.

 

Ngata is a good choice for the #8 pick (and I'm not against this choice) because it is a need, but I don't think he is as much of a "can't pass this guy up pick" like Vernon Davis

[Chilly]

If they are both there then I would like V Davis but would be happy with either.  That said if it is V Davis versus M Huff or C Greenway, I believe you have to go with a guy that changes the game and has to be accounted for on every play - V Davis.  That is not the case with the other guys.

 

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Must not have watched Huff Daddy much this year.

[Beerball]

no way in the world would i waste our#1 pick on a tight end.maybe if we were a contending team and there were no holes then yes get a tight end,.but i would like to see us get mario aj hawke or d'brick....you have to have solid lines a rb and a qb before you start thinking tight end....go bills in'06

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Gates did open things up nicely in SD though didn't he? The run game benefits and the pass game (WR and RBS) benefits.

 

Count me among those not sold on any O or D lineman outside of D'Brick in the top 10. Unless of course you consider a TE a lineman.

[John from Riverside]

There are many different ways to approach a draft and this is one.....

 

Is Hali Nagata a DT that is a "comes along every once in a great while" DT or is he just the best available of this years draft class

 

Is VD a "comes along every once in a great while" TE or is he simply the best of a good class

 

You could make the arguement that if you take Vernon you have greatly upgraded your offesne IF we are diligent in upgrading the line.....

 

The bottom line here is that if we dont upgrade our lines immediately this team will get no better.....if we can do that AND have an impact offensive threat then so be it...if we can then we have to bite the bullet and use the draft to rebiuld our lines and wait for the next "once in a while" player to come down the pike.....

 

 

Hopefully we wont have any more years of drafting in the top 10. So we have to make the most of this pick.....

[colin]

we lost a couple of upper mid level to lower top level vets on D and went from 2 to terrible (pat williams and edwards), losing spikes put in the hurt locker but i am assuming he will be back (perhaps not week 1 at full speed, but he will get there).

 

so we should be able to add a few guys to our D and get them back up to very solid.

 

now we still need youth and we are dying for a few quality big men, but if we grab one of the better DTs in FA (maybe even 2), 2 solid Oline players, and cut moulds (money to pay for everyone) then we can absolutely draft davis and still spend the rest of our picks on

 

1 D lineman

2-3 olinemen

a safety

an LB

a cover corner (nickle/dime guy)

 

so who we take in round one depends on who we get in FA. if we land a DT and some OL help, adding a player like davis will really help our young qb and add a dimension that has been lacking from our O for some time

[Brandon]

While I think you do have to draft with an eye toward team needs, it can't be the sole determining factor. I would not draft the 20th rated player on my board (and I'm not necessarily saying I have Ngata that low) at #8 just because it fills my #1 need! I think you always draft the best prospect available at a moderate or major need position in R1. Always. Between Ngata and Davis, its no contest, I would choose Davis. He's probably the best TE prospect available in years and considering that our TEs are average at best, its not a difficult choice in my mind.

 

And remember, the Bills still have at least three more picks on the first day of the draft.

[TDRupp]

Must not have watched Huff Daddy much this year.

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You are correct. Just MHO. Actually, I would be happy with Huff b/c draft history shows that DB's in the first round are the safest bet and I think could be a great player for us. That said, something in me wants to believe that we can get good to very good play out of Milloy and Vincent for 2, maybe 3 yrs more IF we get better pressure by the DL.

 

That is why I would like Ngata over Huff.

 

Assuming we dont get a chance on Williams, DaBrick, Bush, Hawk, or Leinart the next guys I'd want are: V Davis, Ngata, and Huff in that order.

[Chilly]

You are correct.  Just MHO.  Actually, I would be happy with Huff b/c draft history shows that DB's in the first round are the safest bet and I think could be a great player for us.  That said, something in me wants to believe that we can get good to very good play out of Milloy and Vincent for 2, maybe 3 yrs more IF we get better pressure by the DL.

 

That is why I would like Ngata over Huff.

 

Assuming we dont get a chance on Williams, DaBrick, Bush, Hawk, or Leinart the next guys I'd want are: V Davis, Ngata, and Huff in that order.

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I could see the benefit of taking Ngata over Huff, or Davis over Huff in certain situations. And I wouldn't mind having any of the three on the Bills.

 

I do think, however, that Huff is a game changer, and needs to be accounted for on the field at all times. He's huge with takeaways and is a ball hawk.

[Ozymandius]

He's probably the best TE prospect available in years and considering that our TEs are average at best,  its not a difficult choice in my mind.

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I'd take Davis over Ngata as well but let's not overhype Davis. Winslow was probably considered a better prospect and look what happened to him.

[tennesseeboy]

We need a good tight end. However we need a defensive tackle and a few offensive linemen more. Once addressed, I'll be the first in line for a good tight end selection, but I think we have to use our first draft pick on Ngata if available (or ferguson...but I don't imagine that is going to happen.) If we can't get Ngata, if we trade down and have a couple of second round picks, I think there are very good tight ends available. (I'm kind of touting Leonard Pope of Georgia tech...remember I pushed for Jason Witten for the bills a while back.) You have a good point in that we can address SOME of our needs in free agency, but I think between free agency and the first couple of picks in the draft we can build a playoff caliber team by shoring up the lines where we are very weak.

[apuszczalowski]

I'd take Davis over Ngata as well but let's not overhype Davis.  Winslow was probably considered a better prospect and look what happened to him.

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You can use Winslow as an example cause he was an idiot who did something stupid off the field to jeopardise his career. That could have happened to a #1 pick or some guy in the 6th round. Who knows, the same thing could happen if we take Huff or Ngata

[Pyrite Gal]

A lot of this is the good ol debate between whether your draft for need or simply take the BPA regardless of need. I think the opinion that the Bills (and reality) are not simply black or white and do both with a particular draft emphasizing one or the other depending upon the ultimate team need at the time (getting to and winning the SB) is actually how this is done in real life.

 

I think the mistakes some folks are making is treating this like a fantasy league exercise and not placing into account what is I think the lead factor which is:

 

What addition will make us a winner quickest?

 

Sometimes when your team is on the verge of going far with one addition it is all about need. If you are a team like Philly a couple of years ago and clearly what you need is an upgrade at WR, if the BPA is a recreation of Tony Boselli mixed with Forestt Gregg it does not matter, you instead get the WR you ned even if he is not the BPA.

 

On the other hand, if your team is not close to winning it all next year, then your interest in BPA is heightened and you go with the BPA when you draft.

 

What makes choosing a pick for the Bills is that clearly we are not going to win it all next year so picking the BPA even if he is not at a need position (and the BPA is clearly a cut above the rest) yu might well go with someone like a Davis over a Ngota.

 

However, even though we almost certainly a not a player away from an SB berth, the Bills do have an overwhelming need to win now due to 5 playoffless years under TD and given RWS' age.

 

My sense is that Vernon Davis looks to be an extraordinary player and a good candidate to meet the BPA test when pick #8 comes up, but this team has such a need to at least make the playoffs this year or at worst next season that it is hard for me to see the Bills going with Davis while Everett sits in the wings.

 

This team will probably use more 2 TE sets, but the fact is we can only have one lead TE. Maybe Everett will not become this lead. However, he has the mutant chops in his background that he might. Particularly given the depth at the TE position in this draft, my guess is that the Bills look for the extra thrid or a second day pick for another TE in case Everett does not recover and none of our keepers (Euhus in particular) are able to step up for him.

 

My guess is that we are so thin at DT and Ngota looks like a good talent even though I supect Davis is a better player that we go with Ngota (unless an OL talent like Brickashaw drops to #8 which I do not see happening.

[Kelly the Dog]

The only real question at #8 in the draft is whether vernon davis is a better TE than Haloti Ngata is as a DT. That answer seems to be clearly Davis, so you take him. That isn't ignoring the bigger need or the lines. That is understanding that at #8 you want a player that you're going to have for 5 years of his contract and hopefully 5 years after that. And your lines and your TE position is going to be different every year. Two years years from now, the Bills lines are going to look different. Three or four they may not even resemble one another. The constant is going to be the player we draft at #8.

 

You take Davis.

[30dive]

As being reported in another post..This question is now moot. Per ESPN Sam Adams cut.

[apuszczalowski]

The only real question at #8 in the draft is whether vernon davis is a better TE than Haloti Ngata is as a DT. That answer seems to be clearly Davis, so you take him. That isn't ignoring the bigger need or the lines. That is understanding that at #8 you want a player that you're going to have for 5 years of his contract and hopefully 5 years after that. And your lines and your TE position is going to be different every year. Two years years from now, the Bills lines are going to look different. Three or four they may not even resemble one another. The constant is going to be the player we draft at #8.

 

You take Davis.

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Couldn't have been said better, they are both great talent, and at positions of need for the bills, but is one more of a standout at his position then the other.

[Ozymandius]

As being reported in another post..This question is now moot.  Per ESPN Sam Adams cut.

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Sam Adams getting cut, to me, makes it less likely that the Bills will draft Ngata instead of more likely, which is fine by me since I'm not a believer in him. If Sam Adams doesn't fit into the picture, I don't see how Ngata does. The braintrust seem to want smallish DTs, one-gap types.