Vernon Davis vs. Haloti Ngata

[BillsFanForever19]

Alright, here I go with another post that i'm sure people will become beligerent (sp?) over. But I feel it has to be said.

 

I feel that everyone on this board is getting downright ignorrant when it comes to this team. By that I mean everyone seems to be saying, "YOU MUST DRAFT ON THE LINES FIRST!" period; end of statement. While I agree that the #1 person on the board is D'Brickashaw Ferguson and if he's there, you MUST take him; I disagree with anyone else at OL and maybe even DT there.

 

There seem to be too many people here who are black and white. They see Haloti Ngata rated as the #1 DT in the draft and say that should be it. But think about this. What if we sign Rocky Bernard? What if we sign Larry Triplett or Grady Jackson?

 

You see, every year there is a handful of talented DT's available. But what about a TE that runs a 4.3? Better yet, what about a talented TE period? While DT's are a dime a dozen in FA, you almost never see a franchise TE even hit the market; let alone be enticed to leave his team behind.

 

Not to mention the fact that this draft is very DEEP at DT. Gabe Watson (who I think is just as good, or not to far off from Ngata) could probably be had in the 2nd. Claude Wroten could almost definitely be had in the 2nd, as will Rodrique Wright and Orien Harris.

 

I predict that we'll get another DT in FA. I think with Adams, another big guy (I.E. Bernard, Washington, or a cheap alternative), and a 2nd; we should be solid. Both lines will be addressed, don't get me wrong. But I think we're far better off addressing the bulk of it with veterans instead of repeating Mike Williams. Over the years i've noticed the risk involved with drafting an interior guy that high seems to be greater than a lot of the skill positions.

 

I think Vernon Davis is a RARE talent at a position of definite need for this team. TE is the security blanket that J.P. was missing all last year. With Eric gone, we'll need him.

 

That's why in my opinion if it comes down to Ngata vs. Davis, you have to go with Davis.

[JAMIEBUF12]

Alright, here I go with another post that i'm sure people will become beligerent (sp?) over. But I feel it has to be said.

 

I feel that everyone on this board is getting downright ignorrant when it comes to this team. By that I mean everyone seems to be saying, "YOU MUST DRAFT ON THE LINES FIRST!" period; end of statement. While I agree that the #1 person on the board is D'Brickashaw Ferguson and if he's there, you MUST take him; I disagree with anyone else at OL and maybe even DT there.

 

There seem to be too many people here who are black and white. They see Haloti Ngata rated as the #1 DT in the draft and say that should be it. But think about this. What if we sign Rocky Bernard? What if we sign Larry Triplett or Grady Jackson?

 

You see, every year there is a handful of talented DT's available. But what about a TE that runs a 4.3? Better yet, what about a talented TE period? While DT's are a dime a dozen in FA, you almost never see a franchise TE even hit the market; let alone be enticed to leave his team behind.

 

Not to mention the fact that this draft is very DEEP at DT. Gabe Watson (who I think is just as good, or not to far off from Ngata) could probably be had in the 2nd. Claude Wroten could almost definitely be had in the 2nd, as will Rodrique Wright and Orien Harris.

 

I predict that we'll get another DT in FA. I think with Adams, another big guy (I.E. Bernard, Washington, or a cheap alternative), and a 2nd; we should be solid. Both lines will be addressed, don't get me wrong. But I think we're far better off addressing the bulk of it with veterans instead of repeating Mike Williams. Over the years i've noticed the risk involved with drafting an interior guy that high seems to be greater than a lot of the skill positions.

 

I think Vernon Davis is a RARE talent at a position of definite need for this team. TE is the security blanket that J.P. was missing all last year. With Eric gone, we'll need him.

 

That's why in my opinion if it comes down to Ngata vs. Davis, you have to go with Davis.

613918[/snapback]

no way in the world would i waste our#1 pick on a tight end.maybe if we were a contending team and there were no holes then yes get a tight end,.but i would like to see us get mario aj hawke or d'brick....you have to have solid lines a rb and a qb before you start thinking tight end....go bills in'06

[MarkyMannn]

I think Vernon Davis is a RARE talent at a position of definite need for this team. TE is the security blanket that J.P. was missing all last year. With Eric gone, we'll need him.

 

That's why in my opinion if it comes down to Ngata vs. Davis, you have to go with Davis.

613918[/snapback]

 

V Davis looks great in those combine work-outs on NFL Access. But we have our TE, and we need line help much more

 

K Everett

[Buffalo Baumer]

Alright, here I go with another post that i'm sure people will become beligerent (sp?) over. But I feel it has to be said.

 

I feel that everyone on this board is getting downright ignorrant when it comes to this team. By that I mean everyone seems to be saying, "YOU MUST DRAFT ON THE LINES FIRST!" period; end of statement. While I agree that the #1 person on the board is D'Brickashaw Ferguson and if he's there, you MUST take him; I disagree with anyone else at OL and maybe even DT there.

 

There seem to be too many people here who are black and white. They see Haloti Ngata rated as the #1 DT in the draft and say that should be it. But think about this. What if we sign Rocky Bernard? What if we sign Larry Triplett or Grady Jackson?

 

You see, every year there is a handful of talented DT's available. But what about a TE that runs a 4.3? Better yet, what about a talented TE period? While DT's are a dime a dozen in FA, you almost never see a franchise TE even hit the market; let alone be enticed to leave his team behind.

 

Not to mention the fact that this draft is very DEEP at DT. Gabe Watson (who I think is just as good, or not to far off from Ngata) could probably be had in the 2nd. Claude Wroten could almost definitely be had in the 2nd, as will Rodrique Wright and Orien Harris.

 

I predict that we'll get another DT in FA. I think with Adams, another big guy (I.E. Bernard, Washington, or a cheap alternative), and a 2nd; we should be solid. Both lines will be addressed, don't get me wrong. But I think we're far better off addressing the bulk of it with veterans instead of repeating Mike Williams. Over the years i've noticed the risk involved with drafting an interior guy that high seems to be greater than a lot of the skill positions.

 

I think Vernon Davis is a RARE talent at a position of definite need for this team. TE is the security blanket that J.P. was missing all last year. With Eric gone, we'll need him.

 

That's why in my opinion if it comes down to Ngata vs. Davis, you have to go with Davis.

613918[/snapback]

 

 

I could not agree more - Great Post! Especially since N'gata's time yesterday does not fit in with What Marv is looking for.

[buffaloboyinATL]

I appreciate your passion but keep in mind that this is a pretty deep draft for TE's as well. Davis, Marcedes Lewis, Leonard Pope and Dominique Byrd are all potential first rounders and there are some quality "sleepers" to be had in the later rounds. Garret Mills, Anthony Fasano, Joel Klopfenstein and Tony Scheffler (who I believe has the potential to be very good) just to name a few. I agree that Vernon Davis appears to be a phenom but there are other options at that position just like there are other options at DT.

[mexicanbills45]

We need a Ngata , the first priority is the D-Line and then TE, and remember that the last draft we select K Everett in our 3th round .

 

Only remember the las season what are the problem???

 

Defense!!!

[stuckincincy]

Defense!!! 

613935[/snapback]

 

Yep. I think the Bills were 28th or 29th overall last year.

[buffaloboyinATL]

Yep. I think the Bills were 28th or 29th overall last year.

613940[/snapback]

 

And I truly believe that this was due for the most part to the loss of Pat Williams. It also hurt to lose Spikes but in my opinion was that we were too easy to handle in the middle which allowed the opponents to go after our ends and LB's. A huge, penetrating DT forces teams to double and triple team to prevent disruption which frees DE's LB's and blitzing safties and corners to make plays. This is one position that a one players upgrade (or downgrade) can make a huge difference.

[stuckincincy]

And I truly believe that this was due for the most part to the loss of Pat Williams.  It also hurt to lose Spikes but in my opinion was that we were too easy to handle in the middle which allowed the opponents to go after our ends and LB's.  A huge, penetrating DT forces teams to double and triple team to prevent disruption which frees DE's LB's and blitzing safties and corners to make plays.  This is one position that a one players upgrade (or downgrade) can make a huge difference.

613948[/snapback]

 

Not surprisingly, such DT's aren't prevalent in the FA market. I remain amazed at folks that think that all it takes is for the Bills to snap their fingers, and they come on their knees begging to be a Bill, all their prayers answered...

 

See also, FA OL's.

[timmyk12]

Who knows what the Bills will get in Free Agency...they obviously have many needs to fill, but for someone to pin their hopes on Kevin Everett as a stud TE is ludicrous. He is coming off an ACL injury and was a project to begin with.

 

I hope he turns out to be a stud, but Vernon Davis' talent is too hard to ignore. If he is there he has to be considered.

[Poeticlaw]

Alright, here I go with another post that i'm sure people will become beligerent (sp?) over. But I feel it has to be said.

 

I feel that everyone on this board is getting downright ignorrant when it comes to this team. By that I mean everyone seems to be saying, "YOU MUST DRAFT ON THE LINES FIRST!" period; end of statement. While I agree that the #1 person on the board is D'Brickashaw Ferguson and if he's there, you MUST take him; I disagree with anyone else at OL and maybe even DT there.

 

There seem to be too many people here who are black and white. They see Haloti Ngata rated as the #1 DT in the draft and say that should be it. But think about this. What if we sign Rocky Bernard? What if we sign Larry Triplett or Grady Jackson?

 

You see, every year there is a handful of talented DT's available. But what about a TE that runs a 4.3? Better yet, what about a talented TE period? While DT's are a dime a dozen in FA, you almost never see a franchise TE even hit the market; let alone be enticed to leave his team behind.

 

Not to mention the fact that this draft is very DEEP at DT. Gabe Watson (who I think is just as good, or not to far off from Ngata) could probably be had in the 2nd. Claude Wroten could almost definitely be had in the 2nd, as will Rodrique Wright and Orien Harris.

 

I predict that we'll get another DT in FA. I think with Adams, another big guy (I.E. Bernard, Washington, or a cheap alternative), and a 2nd; we should be solid. Both lines will be addressed, don't get me wrong. But I think we're far better off addressing the bulk of it with veterans instead of repeating Mike Williams. Over the years i've noticed the risk involved with drafting an interior guy that high seems to be greater than a lot of the skill positions.

 

I think Vernon Davis is a RARE talent at a position of definite need for this team. TE is the security blanket that J.P. was missing all last year. With Eric gone, we'll need him.

 

That's why in my opinion if it comes down to Ngata vs. Davis, you have to go with Davis.

613918[/snapback]

 

 

As educated as your post seems to be while insulting the rest of the board is quite pretentious. First you make an excellent point in the fact that the first round pick does not have to be to either lines, it should be to the best available player available and based on need. Never would I use a first round pick for a TE I do not want to see this team spend that much in salary cap on a TE at best the TE can be drafted in the 2 round.

 

Furthermore, there are free agents available at DT that we could probably have, however your point has gone right by me with the fact that can draft a DT in the 2 or 3 round and still be a quality starter since , oh wait that is justin Bannan and yep wait a minute Ron Edwards. Neither really a true starter. NGata is a BIG DT that can hold off 2 guys, hes the only one worth taking at the First round spot if hes not there it will be somoen else.

 

OH and you must be ignorant to the fact that its a gamble no matter who the player is or what the round is that a player is drafted. There are no quaranties on draft day. Go for the potential that fits the roster need thats how they draft them.

[buffaloboyinATL]

OH and you must be ignorant to the fact that its a gamble no matter who the player is or what the round is that a player is drafted. There are no quaranties on draft day. Go for the potential that fits the roster need thats how they draft them.

613994[/snapback]

 

Case in point, Kellen Winslow Jr. 6th pick of the first round in 2004. He was a can't miss TE.

[Fixxxer]

Haloti Ngata= BPA at his position

Vernon Davis= BPA at his position

 

DT= huge need for the Bills

TE= nice addition, not the biggest of need for the Bills

 

Advantage Ngata-

[apuszczalowski]

Haloti Ngata= BPA at his position

Vernon Davis= BPA at his position

 

DT= huge need for the Bills

TE= nice addition, not the biggest of need for the Bills

 

Advantage Ngata-

614106[/snapback]

 

This is probably were I really differ on my opinion then most people on this board.

 

I agree that the bills lines are the biggest need, and TE is a need but not a huge priority.

 

Where I disagree is that I don't think you use the draft to plug the holes in your areas of Biggest need. You use the draft to bring depth to your team and to your holes. I don't believe you bring in a player from the draft to be a starter right away and plug a hole on your team. Drafting a player like Ngata is definitly a good idea, but to think he is going to be able to come right in and fill a starter spot on the team is just not reasonable unless the rest of the line is better. Drafting a player like a Vernon to a position that is not a huge need is a little easier because of the fact that he will not be expected to come in and produce right away.

 

I think Free Agency is the spot to fill holes, unless you believe that the bills should go through an entire rebuilding process which I don't see happening and I don't see fans accepting.

 

And to the poster who made reference to Winslow, he was a can't miss player at the time, now he may not be able to prove it because he was a moron off the field. Who knows, maybe Ngata is looking at buying a bike when his first NFL check comes in and we can end up in the same situation. I can't rule Winslow as a bust until he shows what he can do on the field. A wasted pick maybe, but not cause of his playing abilities, but cause the guy may have ruined his own carrier by off field stuff

[BillsFanForever19]

Not surprisingly, such DT's aren't prevalent in the FA market. I remain amazed at folks that think that all it takes is for the Bills to snap their fingers, and they come on their knees begging to be a Bill, all their prayers answered... 

 

See also, FA OL's.

613966[/snapback]

 

What are you talking about? Off the top of my head I can think of Rocky Bernard, Grady Jackson, and Larry Tripplett (Not to mention most likely Big Ted). And last year I can think of Pat Williams and Corey Simon just off the top of my head.

 

Name me one STUD TE available this year or last. You can't argue that DT's are much easier to come by.

 

 

Haloti Ngata= BPA at his position

Vernon Davis= BPA at his position

 

DT= huge need for the Bills

TE= nice addition, not the biggest of need for the Bills

 

Advantage Ngata-

 

There's the "black and white" look I was referring to (Ignorrant may have been a strong word). While you're right, they are the best players at their position; Davis is a MUCH better TE (I.E. Quality of Player) than Ngata is a DT.

 

Ngata might be the best DT available, but I argue that he is a stud at his position like Davis is.

 

 

And I think everyone is downplaying the TE position pretty badly. It is a very important position and a lot of you are acting like it isn't. A TE is arguably more important to a QB (especially a youngin like Losman) than WR's.

 

For the record, Kevin Everett was a 3rd round PROJECT to begin with. Then he blew out his knee. Behind him is an injury prone, average, young TE in Euhus and Mark Campbell who is declining worse than Jay Riemersma. How people can say Everett is going to be the guy is beyond me.

[John in VA Beach]

Drafting a player like Ngata is definitly a good idea, but to think he is going to be able to come right in and fill a starter spot on the team is just not reasonable unless the rest of the line is better.

614136[/snapback]

 

When you are drafting 8, you expect a starter first year. We aren't a good team, therfore I'd expect Marv to go with the most immediate help and that screams out DL and Ngata, even if VD is the better player. Having said that VD is tempting and probably the choice if the big three lineman are off the board when the Bills choose.

[TDRupp]

V Davis looks great in those combine work-outs on NFL Access.  But we have our TE, and we need line help much more

 

K Everett

613928[/snapback]

 

 

If they are both there then I would like V Davis but would be happy with either. That said if it is V Davis versus M Huff or C Greenway, I believe you have to go with a guy that changes the game and has to be accounted for on every play - V Davis. That is not the case with the other guys.

 

If his intangibles: character, team orientation over self, motivated in the finer points of football, wants to win, motivated by love of the game and wins over money then I believe this guy may be one of the top 5 players in the draft regardless of the positon.

 

I know he is a TE, but if you have a GREAT TE not just a good one then you already have your "#1 WR" so-to-speak. Look at SD and KC's WR numbers. I know. We still need a great OL to be in that class of an O, but IF we address that in round 2-4 (even move up from our 2nd some spots) targeting key guys we might be okay.

 

I also believe we MUST keep S Adams and grad another DT in round 2-4 or upgrade in Free Agency.

 

Wish: Rnd 1 V Davis

Rnd 2 OL

Rnd 3A OL

Rnd 3B DT

 

Rnd 4-7 S, RB, & WR in some order based on what we get in FA.

 

F/A: 1 decent WR to compete

1 decent OL or DL to compete

and possibly a S to compete

[SnakeOiler]

Like mama says, the alligator is mean because he's got a big Medulla Oblongata. In this draft, we need mean...the biggest medulla obloNGATA is that DT from oregon.

 

 

Mama says pick NGATA.

[BrixtonBill]

This is probably were I really differ on my opinion then most people on this board.

 

Where I disagree is that I don't think you use the draft to plug the holes in your areas of Biggest need. You use the draft to bring depth to your team and to your holes.

614136[/snapback]

 

If you bring depth to a hole, doesn't that effectively "plug" the hole?

[Poeticlaw]

If you bring depth to a hole, doesn't that effectively "plug" the hole?

614195[/snapback]

 

 

Since ingnorance is the word of the day lets sprinkle some more. Are we so ignorant that we over look the fact the the draft takes place MID April. When does free agency begin MARCH 2 so when teams are drafting on draft day all the Quality Free agents are gone. Then the team IS drafting for need. Whether the need is immeadate or to prepare for a future need. To illustrate this we need a DT now andif we sign one via free agency we will still need one to fill the shoes of Sam adams becuase this is the last year of his contract and all the names for DT's that keep coming up is 5 mill a year dont we have a salary cap to be concerned with?