major Posted February 27, 2006 Posted February 27, 2006 Who cares about a WONDERLIC score? All I care about is championships. Which is what he brought to the University of Texas and what he'll bring to whatever NFL team takes him in this year's draft. Oh how I wish Buffalo would have lost a few more games last year so that we'd be in a position to take this guy.
syhuang Posted February 27, 2006 Posted February 27, 2006 Who cares about a WONDERLIC score? All I care about is championships. Which is what he brought to the University of Texas and what he'll bring to whatever NFL team takes him in this year's draft. Oh how I wish Buffalo would have lost a few more games last year so that we'd be in a position to take this guy. 613047[/snapback] Â Â Bills may not need to lose few more games to be able to draft Young. Don't be surprised that Young is the third QB off the board and still available at our #8 pick.
John in VA Beach Posted February 27, 2006 Posted February 27, 2006 Who cares about a WONDERLIC score? All I care about is championships. Which is what he brought to the University of Texas and what he'll bring to whatever NFL team takes him in this year's draft. Oh how I wish Buffalo would have lost a few more games last year so that we'd be in a position to take this guy. 613047[/snapback] Â Actually, we might be in a position to draft the fella since his stock is dropping. However, I wouldn't underestimate the wonderlic scores. The NFL game is way more complex and you need to be able to read and pick apart defensive schemes. In the college level Young could do that with his feet and athleticism and arm strength. The speed of the NFL athletes will nuetralize his explosiveness and could leave him exposed.
The Dean Posted February 27, 2006 Posted February 27, 2006 Actually, we might be in a position to draft the fella since his stock is dropping. However, I wouldn't underestimate the wonderlic scores. The NFL game is way more complex and you need to be able to read and pick apart defensive schemes. In the college level Young could do that with his feet and athleticism and arm strength. The speed of the NFL athletes will nuetralize his explosiveness and could leave him exposed. 613059[/snapback]  Of course, you have some evidence that the Wonderlic is a good predictor of the ability to read defenses...right?
MadBuffaloDisease Posted February 27, 2006 Posted February 27, 2006 I've heard that the Wonderlic is mostly meaningless...unless the player scores at the extremes, like under 10 or over 35.
John in VA Beach Posted February 27, 2006 Posted February 27, 2006 Of course, you have some evidence that the Wonderlic is a good predictor of the ability to read defenses...right? 613069[/snapback] Okay, I'll bite. If the wonderlic isn't used by scouts as an indicator of the athletes mental capabilities, what does it indicate? For a QB, mental capabilities would include reading D, understanding coverage schemes, comprehending complex playbooks, etc. I don't need to site any historical data for that claim do I? Its common sense. Sure some folks beat the odds, however, the whole point of the wonderlic is to tell you if someone needs to beat the odds or if they are a pretty safe bet.
dundy249 Posted February 27, 2006 Posted February 27, 2006 Interesting... it certainly provides further evidence for Jeff George's shortcomings.... 611958[/snapback] Â What do all of these QB's have in common. Â Â Never won the big game.
The Dean Posted February 27, 2006 Posted February 27, 2006 Okay, I'll bite. If the wonderlic isn't used by scouts as an indicator of the athletes mental capabilities, what does it indicate? For a QB, mental capabilities would include reading D, understanding coverage schemes, comprehending complex playbooks, etc. I don't need to site any historical data for that claim do I? Its common sense. Sure some folks beat the odds, however, the whole point of the wonderlic is to tell you if someone needs to beat the odds or if they are a pretty safe bet. 613081[/snapback]   Well, just because something is used for a purpose by a group of people doesn't mean it's a good use for that particular tool. ( Remember, football is still in the dark ages, as far as advanced analytics and management philosophy, etc are concerned. Many of the guys making the decisions are not the brightest bulbs on the tree.) But, let's assume for a moment the Wonderlic is a reasonable predictor of success in football (an assumption that I've never seen successfully defended, BTW...but, I digress).  If the Wonderlic is a decent predictor, that would mean that for a large group of people over a long period of time, those who do better on the test tend to perform better in certain football-related tasks than those who perform poorly on the test. How much better? Hos often? What percentage of the variance can be explained by the Wonderlic score?  Now, we don't have the answers to these (and other) questions, but I'd be shocked if it explained as much as 20% of the variance in these groups. The problem is, that ability to predict is almost always lost at the individual level...there are just TOO many variables among individuals to have one (non-physical) measurement mean very much.  What these kinds of tests really do (at their best) is give perspective employers another way to differentiate between hundreds of mostly unknown applicants. It's a piece of information that helps them pare-down the field. It's sloppy...probably sloppier than the "subjecive" observation of a trained scout, IMO...but, it is another piece of information. It can give a team a reason to look at a guy they may have passed on...or question a guy they were high on. If may give a GM enough concern to make some inquiries as to a prospects "mental" capabilities.  So, let's say Vince scores rock-bottom on the Wonderlic. That might give a GM some concern...so he begins to ask questions. He talks to the guys coaches, teammates, etc. And finally, he talks to the guy himself. After all of that, the Wonderlic score is basically meaningless. A good evaluator of people and talent should be able to tell if this guy is capable of understanding the playbook...if he can think and react on his feet (of course, there is film for this stuff, too) and if he has a football mentality. Standardized test scores cannot replace real personal interaction in predicting a persons ability to succeed in any given field...they are just a guide to use in the evaluation process.
Kelly the Dog Posted February 27, 2006 Posted February 27, 2006 In the last several years, has there been a Bills player who has been asked to learn more things, picked them up quicker and then exhibited a capacity to perform them without glaring mental mistakes more than Jason Peters? Â The guy has been with the team two years as an UDFA and has played seven positions, if you include KO, KR, P and PR. Coaches have gone out of their way to say how quickly he has picked things up. His first big play as a Bill, the blocked punt, was a result of him seeing one thing one time and then anticipating the next play. Granted, this is not learning all of the offense like a quarterback is asked to do, but he has exhibited more football acumen than anyone on the team.
TravelingDad48 Posted February 27, 2006 Posted February 27, 2006 http://www.unc.edu/~mirabile/Wonderlic.htm  Sorry if has been posted before ... its a list of QB's past and future and their scores ...  If Young did get a 16 ... thats 2 better than Dan Marino did !!! I could live with that !
Kelly the Dog Posted February 27, 2006 Posted February 27, 2006 http://www.unc.edu/~mirabile/Wonderlic.htm Sorry if has been posted before ... its a list of QB's past and future and their scores ...  If Young did get a 16 ... thats 2 better than Dan Marino did !!! I could live with that ! 613128[/snapback] Thanks. Great list. Jeff George got a 10?! That's impossible. 8 tops.
bluenews Posted February 28, 2006 Posted February 28, 2006 .....this is what I learned today fro my friend who has a scout with the Bills last years and has sinced moved on to another team. He is in Indy and all the talk today was about Vince Young and his Wonderlic score of 6. He said teams are bailing on him bigtime. Mac Brown is very upset that this information was leaked and is planning limiting coach/scout access at future Austin Pro Days. Â He went on to say that other scouts have serious concerns with Young's sidearm release and most are considering him as a 2-3 year project.
KRT88 Posted February 28, 2006 Posted February 28, 2006 I know some people do not test well and I know it is a timed test, but couldn't I training my pet cat to beat that score? I know I can find some sixth grades with more cognitive brain function than Young. Â And honestly, would you really want to trust you teams NFL offense on a guy that can't think in pressure situations? Let along trust him to read an complex NFL defense
EndZoneCrew Posted February 28, 2006 Posted February 28, 2006 I think the turd I just dropped in my throne could score a 5 on that test!!
Chilly Posted February 28, 2006 Posted February 28, 2006 Oh Yee of little reading comprehension, let us bring you up to speed.  .....this is what I learned today fro my friend who has a scout with the Bills last years and has sinced moved on to another team. He is in Indy and all the talk today was about Vince Young and his Wonderlic score of 6. He said teams are bailing on him bigtime.  Mac Brown is very upset that this information was leaked and is planning limiting coach/scout access at future Austin Pro Days. He went on to say that other scouts have serious concerns with Young's sidearm release and most are considering him as a 2-3 year project. 613334[/snapback]  The first thing that we are going to talk about today class is the difference between a "rumor" and "fact". The talk was, indeed, in reference to a "rumor" that had been circulating around the NFL combine.  ru·mor Pronunciation Key (rmr) n.  1. A piece of unverified information of uncertain origin usually spread by word of mouth. 2. Unverified information received from another; hearsay.  This means that it is not necessarily true nor is it false. However, you seem to just take it for fact.  Let's take a look at all of the evidence that is against this rumor.  First off, let us read an article published by the Houston Chronicle.  http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/3687374.html  The headline is, and I quote, "False score gives Young wrong kind of buzz". The headline seems to be saying that Vince Young's score wasn't really 6. But was it? Let us read on to find out.  On Sunday, the combine said the test score of 6 that was being reported by some media outlets was false. "I've been told it was inaccurate by a source good enough for me to quote it," Texans general manager Charley Casserly said Sunday afternoon.  Young took the test again and scored 16. According to Young's agent, Major Adams, the Sunday test was administered by Jeff Foster, executive director of National Scouting Combine.  "The combine officials assured us that score (6) was false and that the accurate score will be known when the combine results are given to each team," Adams said.  Wonderlic scores are supposed to be confidential and are never confirmed publicly by the NFL. Because they are included in combine results given to teams after the combine, scores leak out.  So, the test was improperly given, and then the mistake was corrected and it was properly administered, whereby the rumor is that he scored a 16.  This means that the first time, if he DID score a 6, was NOT a fair score on the Wonderlic.  But further proof that this is just a rumor lies in that last sentence. "Because they are included in combine results given to teams after the combine, scores leak out."  Note that the results aren't given to teams until AFTER the combine, which means that the teams haven't even received the official Wonderlic results left.  I know some people do not test well and I know it is a timed test, but couldn't I training my pet cat to beat that score? I know I can find some sixth grades with more cognitive brain function than Young. And honestly, would you really want to trust you teams NFL offense on a guy that can't think in pressure situations? Let along trust him to read an complex NFL defense 613368[/snapback]  You are completely, 100% wrong with your assessment of what happened.  According to that Houston Cronicle article, let me quote some opinions of people who work professionally in the NFL.  "I've seen players test in single digits and play 10 years, and I've seen some guys test in the 30s that couldn't walk across the street," said Reese, who has been in the NFL since 1975.  So the Wonderlic, while it is just ONE way to test for the ability to make decisions, it isn't THE way to test for the ability to make decisions.  Let's take a look at some of the quarterbacks over the years that have scored a 16 or less on one of their accurate attempts, like apparently Vince Young did  (these statistics courtesy of http://www.unc.edu/~mirabile/Wonderlic.htm)  Losman, J.P. Culpepper, Daunte McNabb, Donovan McNair, Steve Cunningham, Randall Marino, Dan  Now, let us take a look at some of the quarterbacks over the years that did exceptionally well by scoring a 30 or above on one of their accurate attempts:  Losman, J.P. Bledsoe, Drew (who we all know makes extremely quick decisions) Henson, Drew Harrington, Joey Brown, Travis Smith, Akili Griese, Brian  So yeah, this test must really measure whether someone is smart or stupid. Also, it is a pretty good indicator of how good someone will be on the football field.
kasper13 Posted February 28, 2006 Posted February 28, 2006 I thought Roscoe Parrish got a 2 or 3 on that test. Who cares if a guy gets a zero, as long as he can throw a football? That's why Vince Young got to go to Texas in the first place, not because he was literate. College is for students and College Football is for athletes. There's a giant difference.
Repulsif Posted February 28, 2006 Posted February 28, 2006 ok, just a question about the test. you have 12 minutes to answer 50 questions. Correct ?
Stl Bills Posted February 28, 2006 Posted February 28, 2006 John Clayton of ESPN is reporting Vince Young's agent says he got a score of 16 on the Wonderlic not a 6. The more I research the sources that claim he got a six, none seem to be able to verify this 100%, almost every source used a word like allegedly or rumored. However Mack Brown and the owner of the Texans are the ones who seem to be backing the fact that Young got a 16. I smell a rat; I think there is something to the reports of such a low score of 6.
justnzane Posted February 28, 2006 Posted February 28, 2006 ok, just a question about the test.you have 12 minutes to answer 50 questions. Correct ? 613484[/snapback] that is correct. so if you guess on every problem... it is likely that you score around a 12.
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