Frez Posted February 26, 2006 Posted February 26, 2006 2001 Marques Sullivan T Illinois Jonas Jennings T Georgia 2002 Mike Pucillo G Auburn Mike Williams T Texas 2003 Ben Sobieski G Iowa 2004 Dylan McFarland T Montana 2005 Justin Geisinger G Vanderbilt Duke Preston C Illinois Free agent OL Corey Hulsey Kris Farris Jon Carman John Romero Marcus Price Trey Teague Mike Houghton Ross Tucker Gary Byrd Bernard Robertson Lawrence Smith Chris Villarrial Mike Gandy Bennie Anderson Greg Jerman Jason Jefferson Jasen Esposito Fine looking group uh?
krazykat Posted February 26, 2006 Posted February 26, 2006 Yeah, and it's funny how many posters here used to talk about TD as a genius. Meanwhile, those that were against his idiocy got chastised. I think there's a lesson to be learned there somewhere.
krazykat Posted February 26, 2006 Posted February 26, 2006 My personal favorites were us taking out other team's trash and then wrapping them and putting them under our tree by telling us how McNally was gonna "do what he did in NY." LMAO McNally's lucky he still has a job IMO. Gandy, Anderson, Tucker, Smith
ajzepp Posted February 26, 2006 Posted February 26, 2006 Yeah, and it's funny how many posters here used to talk about TD as a genius. Meanwhile, those that were against his idiocy got chastised. I think there's a lesson to be learned there somewhere. 611808[/snapback] Dude, please....there are plenty of other topics to be chastised about too....taking heat once in a while is just part of what makes TBD great. Sooner or later, we're all right and we're all wrong....simple as that.
Nanker Posted February 26, 2006 Posted February 26, 2006 2001Marques Sullivan T Illinois Jonas Jennings T Georgia 2002 Mike Pucillo G Auburn Mike Williams T Texas 2003 Ben Sobieski G Iowa 2004 Dylan McFarland T Montana 2005 Justin Geisinger G Vanderbilt Duke Preston C Illinois Free agent OL Corey Hulsey Kris Farris Jon Carman John Romero Marcus Price Trey Teague Mike Houghton Ross Tucker Gary Byrd Bernard Robertson Lawrence Smith Chris Villarrial Mike Gandy Bennie Anderson Greg Jerman Jason Jefferson Jasen Esposito Fine looking group uh? 611796[/snapback] Oh yeah? Well name me 10 other General Managers who brought in better talent over that span of 5 years!
Sisyphean Bills Posted February 26, 2006 Posted February 26, 2006 What was that slogan again? 5 tubs of goo = an NFL offensive line.
Rico Posted February 26, 2006 Posted February 26, 2006 2001Marques Sullivan T Illinois Jonas Jennings T Georgia 2002 Mike Pucillo G Auburn Mike Williams T Texas 2003 Ben Sobieski G Iowa 2004 Dylan McFarland T Montana 2005 Justin Geisinger G Vanderbilt Duke Preston C Illinois Free agent OL Corey Hulsey Kris Farris Jon Carman John Romero Marcus Price Trey Teague Mike Houghton Ross Tucker Gary Byrd Bernard Robertson Lawrence Smith Chris Villarrial Mike Gandy Bennie Anderson Greg Jerman Jason Jefferson Jasen Esposito Fine looking group uh? 611796[/snapback] Looks better with Jason Peters on it.
Pyrite Gal Posted February 26, 2006 Posted February 26, 2006 I am curious what those of you who are interested in way too much details than this mere spoerting event deserves thinlk about this beyond the simple rants 2001 Marques Sullivan T Illinois- We got some reasonable mileage out of him as he was a second day draft pick who actually started a few games for us. However, I think the fact he was unceremoniously bounced from this team reasonably allows him to be termed a failed pick. Jonas Jennings T Georgia- I think he can reasonably be judged a good pick. He held the LT role adequately and showed some signs he might learn to be a very good player and worth a good (but not great) contract to resign him as an FA. Fortunately for SF was the team which bid too high and now are saddled with this injury prone athlete. Despite his demise as a Bill, I think this can be judged a good pick by the Bills as he held down the LT slot at near minimum payments by us for several years and he left as hew was entitle to under the CBA ruels. 2002 Mike Pucillo G Auburn- Reasonably labeled a bust as we had to cut him because of his poor plat. This was a horrid situation not so much cause of the draft where we used a late second day choice to get him, but because we foolishly depended on him in 2003 when he was not up to the jpb and actually held MW back by setting up a situation where he had to school the young Pacillo when he actually needed schooling and ver player assistance himself. Mike Williams T Texas- A definite bust as a choice because of the lofty position we used to pick him 2003 Ben Sobieski G Iowa- No payoff due to injuries, but not a bad risk as we only used a second day pick on this player whose talent has been heralded. Oh well 2004 Dylan McFarland T Montana- Too early to judge this player entering his thir year or even to call him a bust as he has been cut by the Bills prior to last season. Hpwever, as he has been signed and sent to NFL Europe there is something the braintrust sees in him 2005 Justin Geisinger G Vanderbilt- Too early to tell for this rookie who dressaed for one game but did not play in any. Duke Preston C Illinois- A good year for this rookie as he earned a starting nod in a game and filled in for Villarial in several other games. he consistently appeared as part of the ST Free agent OL Corey Hulsey - Little cost and no yield Kris Farris - Little cost for this interesting development acquisition but no yield Jon Carman - Litle cost no yield John Romero - Little cost no yield. Marcus Price- Played a solid back-up role The fact he is out of the league means we timed this right Trey Teague- He is too small to play anchor the C position as we would hope and expect, but this athletic player has filled hir role well at times and for a low cost Mike Houghton- Little cost no yield Ross Tucker- A good acquisition as he took the starting LG job during the winning streak last year and stabilized the position. Injury issues led to his cut but still in league with NE. Gary Byrd - Little cost no yield Bernard Robertson- Little cost (late second day pick in huge 01 draft) but no yield as disipline problems did him in. Lawrence Smith- - a good acquisition as he cost back-up money and played starter when out original plans failed. He is not adequate as a fulltime starter but even after injury which IR'ed him last year may be a reasonable back-up. Chris Villarrial- On the backside of his career, at best a necessary but pricey pick up. Mike Gandy - impressive last year as there was no reasonable calculation to expect him to b even adewuate at LT. I hope he is replaced by a better player but will not wring my hands if we fail to do this because we are investing the cap hit elsewhere that leads to winning. Paying for a dominating LT that adds value to his teammates play would seem to be a pretty strong step toward winning so I wxpect Gandy to back-up (his cap allows) or play another position (as his experience allows). Bennie Anderson - Big disappointment. Some felt he actually showed some improvement in on the field play his last five games, but show us improvement quick or cut him. Greg Jerman- This journeyman played a small number of quality minutes for us this past season, but he is a journeyman who if he makes this team and is the best we can do we should wory. Jason Jefferson - DL player a mistake on original list Jasen Esposito - Low costt no yield. Fine looking group uh? : Actually I would judge this unit this way: 1. Bust- Showed nothing like a Ryan Leaf never justifying any hoped development 2. Failed Pick- He tried but he just was not a good enough player to justify pick 3. Average- OK choice who paid off while he was her but not worth resigning. 4. Good Pick- Should be resigned 5. Stud- Alright! By this standard of TDs 8 draft choice on the OL in 5 years: 4 Failed picks (Sully, MW, Pacillo, Sobieski) 1 Average pick (JJ) 3 Too early to tell (but there are good hopes for Preston. I know some folks would want to label MW a bust and this is not unreasonable IMHO given the huge contract he got as a #4. However, he strikes me as having been productive as a rookie and after he turned things around after his third year meltdown. Given that I think the best choice by far would have been to trade down from #4 in 2002 (unfortunately this cannot be expected by fans as it takes two teams to make a deal) since there simply were no obviously better choices who paid off with #4 production who we woulda/coulda/shoulda taken instead. Neither Harrington nor BM woud have been worth a #4 either. I think MW is a dreadfully (add as many adjectives as you want and it will accurately describe the disappointment of Bills fans over MW;s performance and contract) failed pick. However, I would not judge him a bust as I think Ryan Leaf was who clearly did not even deserve a 2nd year with his rookie non-play. My recollection also is that Mandarich demonstrated right from the start that his team had made a huge mistake in choosing him. I do not remember the details of the Patulski error (please correct if I am wrong) that folks have compared to MW, but I assume that he offered no real rational hope from the moment he took the field. Though there are a few folks so wise like BADOL who from his review of his college play could see what many professional draft pundits or NFL player development professional could not see and knew MW was not gonna make it, in general, fans and many pros had some rational hope after MW's production his first year and even some rational hope after he revived his career from his thrid season meltdown that he might somehow turn out to be at least a passable acquisition. MW did not work out and I am glad we cut him now and are moving on, but INHO I would label him a bust only if by this you mean a failed pick. Of the three too early to tell, I doubt Geisinger will become much, McFarland will be a back-up at best but I have hopes for Preston.
Sisyphean Bills Posted February 26, 2006 Posted February 26, 2006 Fat Mike Williams is the consummate bust. He regressed steadily over his very short-lived career. The fact that he saw some playing time on a unit that has perennially been a horror show of ineptitude does little to buoy the credibility of any claim of his "adequate play." He is a spectacular bust and helped set this franchise back years.
ans4e64 Posted February 26, 2006 Posted February 26, 2006 I am curious what those of you who are interested in way too much details than this mere spoerting event deserves thinlk about this beyond the simple rants 2001 Marques Sullivan T Illinois- We got some reasonable mileage out of him as he was a second day draft pick who actually started a few games for us. However, I think the fact he was unceremoniously bounced from this team reasonably allows him to be termed a failed pick. Jonas Jennings T Georgia- I think he can reasonably be judged a good pick. He held the LT role adequately and showed some signs he might learn to be a very good player and worth a good (but not great) contract to resign him as an FA. Fortunately for SF was the team which bid too high and now are saddled with this injury prone athlete. Despite his demise as a Bill, I think this can be judged a good pick by the Bills as he held down the LT slot at near minimum payments by us for several years and he left as hew was entitle to under the CBA ruels. 2002 Mike Pucillo G Auburn- Reasonably labeled a bust as we had to cut him because of his poor plat. This was a horrid situation not so much cause of the draft where we used a late second day choice to get him, but because we foolishly depended on him in 2003 when he was not up to the jpb and actually held MW back by setting up a situation where he had to school the young Pacillo when he actually needed schooling and ver player assistance himself. Mike Williams T Texas- A definite bust as a choice because of the lofty position we used to pick him 2003 Ben Sobieski G Iowa- No payoff due to injuries, but not a bad risk as we only used a second day pick on this player whose talent has been heralded. Oh well 2004 Dylan McFarland T Montana- Too early to judge this player entering his thir year or even to call him a bust as he has been cut by the Bills prior to last season. Hpwever, as he has been signed and sent to NFL Europe there is something the braintrust sees in him 2005 Justin Geisinger G Vanderbilt- Too early to tell for this rookie who dressaed for one game but did not play in any. Duke Preston C Illinois- A good year for this rookie as he earned a starting nod in a game and filled in for Villarial in several other games. he consistently appeared as part of the ST Free agent OL Corey Hulsey - Little cost and no yield Kris Farris - Little cost for this interesting development acquisition but no yield Jon Carman - Litle cost no yield John Romero - Little cost no yield. Marcus Price- Played a solid back-up role The fact he is out of the league means we timed this right Trey Teague- He is too small to play anchor the C position as we would hope and expect, but this athletic player has filled hir role well at times and for a low cost Mike Houghton- Little cost no yield Ross Tucker- A good acquisition as he took the starting LG job during the winning streak last year and stabilized the position. Injury issues led to his cut but still in league with NE. Gary Byrd - Little cost no yield Bernard Robertson- Little cost (late second day pick in huge 01 draft) but no yield as disipline problems did him in. Lawrence Smith- - a good acquisition as he cost back-up money and played starter when out original plans failed. He is not adequate as a fulltime starter but even after injury which IR'ed him last year may be a reasonable back-up. Chris Villarrial- On the backside of his career, at best a necessary but pricey pick up. Mike Gandy - impressive last year as there was no reasonable calculation to expect him to b even adewuate at LT. I hope he is replaced by a better player but will not wring my hands if we fail to do this because we are investing the cap hit elsewhere that leads to winning. Paying for a dominating LT that adds value to his teammates play would seem to be a pretty strong step toward winning so I wxpect Gandy to back-up (his cap allows) or play another position (as his experience allows). Bennie Anderson - Big disappointment. Some felt he actually showed some improvement in on the field play his last five games, but show us improvement quick or cut him. Greg Jerman- This journeyman played a small number of quality minutes for us this past season, but he is a journeyman who if he makes this team and is the best we can do we should wory. Jason Jefferson - DL player a mistake on original list Jasen Esposito - Low costt no yield. Fine looking group uh? : Actually I would judge this unit this way: 1. Bust- Showed nothing like a Ryan Leaf never justifying any hoped development 2. Failed Pick- He tried but he just was not a good enough player to justify pick 3. Average- OK choice who paid off while he was her but not worth resigning. 4. Good Pick- Should be resigned 5. Stud- Alright! By this standard of TDs 8 draft choice on the OL in 5 years: 4 Failed picks (Sully, MW, Pacillo, Sobieski) 1 Average pick (JJ) 3 Too early to tell (but there are good hopes for Preston. I know some folks would want to label MW a bust and this is not unreasonable IMHO given the huge contract he got as a #4. However, he strikes me as having been productive as a rookie and after he turned things around after his third year meltdown. Given that I think the best choice by far would have been to trade down from #4 in 2002 (unfortunately this cannot be expected by fans as it takes two teams to make a deal) since there simply were no obviously better choices who paid off with #4 production who we woulda/coulda/shoulda taken instead. Neither Harrington nor BM woud have been worth a #4 either. I think MW is a dreadfully (add as many adjectives as you want and it will accurately describe the disappointment of Bills fans over MW;s performance and contract) failed pick. However, I would not judge him a bust as I think Ryan Leaf was who clearly did not even deserve a 2nd year with his rookie non-play. My recollection also is that Mandarich demonstrated right from the start that his team had made a huge mistake in choosing him. I do not remember the details of the Patulski error (please correct if I am wrong) that folks have compared to MW, but I assume that he offered no real rational hope from the moment he took the field. Though there are a few folks so wise like BADOL who from his review of his college play could see what many professional draft pundits or NFL player development professional could not see and knew MW was not gonna make it, in general, fans and many pros had some rational hope after MW's production his first year and even some rational hope after he revived his career from his thrid season meltdown that he might somehow turn out to be at least a passable acquisition. MW did not work out and I am glad we cut him now and are moving on, but INHO I would label him a bust only if by this you mean a failed pick. Of the three too early to tell, I doubt Geisinger will become much, McFarland will be a back-up at best but I have hopes for Preston. 611921[/snapback] i think you are missing the point, the shear fact that it is still too early to tell on players that have been here a number of years is why they havent worked out. If they were good picks, they would have established themselves already. Look at our o-line, its not difficult if you play well to replace a starting position and yet nobody has done it. Injuries or whatever, that still means the player hasnt been productive, doesnt matter what the excuse is.
MadBuffaloDisease Posted February 26, 2006 Posted February 26, 2006 My personal favorites were us taking out other team's trash and then wrapping them and putting them under our tree by telling us how McNally was gonna "do what he did in NY." LMAO McNally's lucky he still has a job IMO. Pick which side of the fence from which you want to caterwaul, krazykat. Either TD's picks were crap and McNally couldn't make chicken salad from them, or TD's picks were good and McNally sucks. So which IS it? Oh wait, obviously it's that TD and McNally BOTH suck?
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