The_Real Posted February 25, 2006 Share Posted February 25, 2006 Mike Williams was a stud coming out of college. ESPN had him ranked as the top tackle. He's a 6'6" 360 lb monster that you would assume would continue his career of running people over and finishing his blocks. He led the nation in pancake blocks. How in the hell would Tom Donahoe or anyone else see that the kid would fall short? Is he a bust? HELL YEAH. Is there anyway you could have predicted it? HELL NO. Just like Eric Flowers and Ryan Leaf and Brian Bosworth and so forth. Players are taught to say the right things in college so you really aren't going to know who is real and who isn't until they get there. This whole business of hindsight and how some of you love to say I TOLD YOU SO, is rubbish. Every team has egg on their face from time to time. It was a bad pick 4 years ago and the Bills in essence admitted that by sending mike packing. Get over it already. T_R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RunTheBall Posted February 25, 2006 Share Posted February 25, 2006 You are absolutely right. Everyone thought he would be a solid tackle. The difference is that when I make one of the biggest draft pick busts in team history, no one cares. When the GM does that, its his responsibility no matter how many people though it was a good pick at the time. RTB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Real Posted February 25, 2006 Author Share Posted February 25, 2006 You are absolutely right. Everyone thought he would be a solid tackle. The difference is that when I make one of the biggest draft pick busts in team history, no one cares. When the GM does that, its his responsibility no matter how many people though it was a good pick at the time. RTB 611355[/snapback] I agree, but he isn't the GM of the Bills anymore and the player has been released. What else do you want him to do to assume responsibility? Tom Donahoe was beat up by the media/fans for this pick. Yet, everyone still loves Modrak? Huh? If Modrak wasn't here then I'll eat crow, but I'm fairly certain I remember him being asst. gm already. That has to make him semi responsible for the scouting. The blame in this scenario should fall 98% on Mike William's shoulders. He could have been a great player for the bills, but he just forgot what his proffesional career choice was. In my opinion the NFL does this to themselves. They overpay kids fresh out of college and they lose their motivation to strive for greatness. The bills got screwed by the player, not the gm. I think TD is a boner but he tried to make this team succesful. Any one who can't see that is just mad at the team's success while he was here. He tried and came up short. That's never happened to you? T_R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chalkie Gerzowski Posted February 25, 2006 Share Posted February 25, 2006 I thought most were pushing for McKinnie. I remember one person here was so adamant about getting Harrington. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Real Posted February 25, 2006 Author Share Posted February 25, 2006 I thought most were pushing for McKinnie. I remember one person here was so adamant about getting Harrington. 611364[/snapback] The point I'm trying to make is you can't predict a bust. You may think a player will be better or worse than when he is drafted but a complete bust? Impossible. These I told you so threads are just silly. We made a mistake so lets move on already. It's in the water in WNY to not let things go though.... 'forward lateral, No goal, No goal again, etc.....' T_R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori Posted February 25, 2006 Share Posted February 25, 2006 I agree, but he isn't the GM of the Bills anymore and the player has been released. What else do you want him to do to assume responsibility? Tom Donahoe was beat up by the media/fans for this pick. Yet, everyone still loves Modrak? Huh? If Modrak wasn't here then I'll eat crow, but I'm fairly certain I remember him being asst. gm already. That has to make him semi responsible for the scouting. The blame in this scenario should fall 98% on Mike William's shoulders. He could have been a great player for the bills, but he just forgot what his proffesional career choice was. In my opinion the NFL does this to themselves. They overpay kids fresh out of college and they lose their motivation to strive for greatness. The bills got screwed by the player, not the gm. I think TD is a boner but he tried to make this team succesful. Any one who can't see that is just mad at the team's success while he was here. He tried and came up short. That's never happened to you? T_R 611362[/snapback] Modrak was here, but wasn't Assistant GM yet. As for the "NYAH NYAH, I TOLD YOU SO!!!" threads? If you don't like 'em, skip 'em. That's what I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted February 25, 2006 Share Posted February 25, 2006 There were some questions about Leaf's attitude, like showing up at the combine weighing 261 pounds, and there were a LOT of questions about Bosworth's attitude. But your point about Williams is correct. More than half, and most of the biggest ones, like Joel Bushbaum, had MW rated slightly higher than BM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Real Posted February 25, 2006 Author Share Posted February 25, 2006 There were some questions about Leaf's attitude, like showing up at the combine weighing 261 pounds, and there were a LOT of questions about Bosworth's attitude. But your point about Williams is correct. More than half, and most of the biggest ones, like Joel Bushbaum, had MW rated slightly higher than BM. 611385[/snapback] It's just like that guy in highschool who lost his first love and just couldn't handle it. IT'S OVER MAN!!! LET IT GO!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozymandius Posted February 25, 2006 Share Posted February 25, 2006 How in the hell would Tom Donahoe or anyone else see that the kid would fall short? Is he a bust? HELL YEAH. Is there anyway you could have predicted it? HELL NO. 611350[/snapback] I disagree completely. I knew Williams had a great chance to be a bust because he was fat and he wasn't oustandingly quick in college. As it turns out, dude ended up having trouble staying in shape (which goes a long way towards staying healthy) and dealing with quick defensive ends. I knew he was a horrible risk to take at #4 overall, and Donahoe should've known as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albany,n.y. Posted February 25, 2006 Share Posted February 25, 2006 Williams had one major red flag that people totally ignored. He always had weight problems. He was 375 at the combine. Taking a player that big is just asking for trouble. When the Bills drafted him, they said he's just naturally big, that was total BS. The guy had a weight problem & TD drafted him @ #4. Add that to the fact that he never played LT in college and that Bryant McKinnie, who was 40 lbs lighter & had played LT and Roy Williams, an impact safety (when we needed one-this was pre-Milloy signing) were both on the board and it was a stupid pick. No matter what you think of McKinnie overall, there's no doubt he's on the Vikings roster today & MW isn't on the Bills' roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Real Posted February 25, 2006 Author Share Posted February 25, 2006 I disagree completely. I knew Williams had a great chance to be a bust because he was fat and he wasn't oustandingly quick in college. As it turns out, dude ended up having trouble staying in shape (which goes a long way towards staying healthy) and dealing with quick defensive ends. I knew he was a horrible risk to take at #4 overall, and Donahoe should've known as well. 611399[/snapback] I've got a job for you in the front office Einstein. I guess you knew better than the professionals who make their living. Where were you when it counted for years ago. *sigh* T_R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Real Posted February 25, 2006 Author Share Posted February 25, 2006 Williams had one major red flag that people totally ignored. He always had weight problems. He was 375 at the combine. Taking a player that big is just asking for trouble. When the Bills drafted him, they said he's just naturally big, that was total BS. The guy had a weight problem & TD drafted him @ #4. Add that to the fact that he never played LT in college and that Bryant McKinnie, who was 40 lbs lighter & had played LT and Roy Williams, an impact safety (when we needed one-this was pre-Milloy signing) were both on the board and it was a stupid pick. No matter what you think of McKinnie overall, there's no doubt he's on the Vikings roster today & MW isn't on the Bills' roster. 611400[/snapback] Correct. Williams is gone. Donahoe is gone. MOOOOOOOOOVEEEEEEEE OOOOOOOOOOONNNNN!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chalkie Gerzowski Posted February 25, 2006 Share Posted February 25, 2006 The point I'm trying to make is you can't predict a bust. You may think a player will be better or worse than when he is drafted but a complete bust? Impossible. These I told you so threads are just silly. We made a mistake so lets move on already. It's in the water in WNY to not let things go though.... 'forward lateral, No goal, No goal again, etc.....' T_R 611372[/snapback] I am not in WNY. Anyway, I didn't like the idea of drafting a right tackle with a knee injury problem. With the fourth overall selection, you have to do better than that. I thought it was a very uninspiring selection. If anything is in the water in WNY, it's how easily impressed people can be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMIEBUF12 Posted February 25, 2006 Share Posted February 25, 2006 its not that fans "knew" mike would be a bust..............its that you dont take a right tackle 4th in the draft and make him your highest paid player in team history!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!that is what bothers the fans.....i would have picked wrong as well i wanted bryant mckinney real bad and i thought if not bryant then trade down for dwight freeney................when i heard those stories about bryant never giving up a sack in college i had a hardon for him,but yes anybody can look back a few years later and say this guy could have been had at say pick #14 and been a total stud and we coulda traded down and got this guy .after we drafted mike i figured he would be at least a good safe pick and be possibly moved to left tackle down the line............i seem to remember articles saying at draft time the only reason mike was a right tackle was because chriss simms was a lefty qb at texas and that was chrisses blind side.,go bills in'06 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted February 25, 2006 Share Posted February 25, 2006 Add that to the fact that he never played LT in college 611400[/snapback] Wasn't the Texas QB a lefty, meaning the RT position was the equivalent of guarding his blind side? I thought TD considered this enough experience that MW could eventually play the LT, after getting his feet wet at RT. Turns out he was wrong, as we all know now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozymandius Posted February 26, 2006 Share Posted February 26, 2006 I've got a job for you in the front office Einstein. I guess you knew better than the professionals who make their living. Where were you when it counted for years ago. *sigh* T_R 611415[/snapback] Yes, I am better/smarter than Donahoe, at least in this specific case of drafting Mike Williams at #4. Where was I four years ago? I was calling Mike Williams a future bust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozymandius Posted February 26, 2006 Share Posted February 26, 2006 Wasn't the Texas QB a lefty, meaning the RT position was the equivalent of guarding his blind side? I thought TD considered this enough experience that MW could eventually play the LT, after getting his feet wet at RT. Turns out he was wrong, as we all know now. 611453[/snapback] He might've played one or two years with Chris Simms, but that doesn't make it the equivalent of playing LT. The technique is completely reversed, and you're usually dealing with a different type of player at RDE than at LDE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RunTheBall Posted February 26, 2006 Share Posted February 26, 2006 I agree, but he isn't the GM of the Bills anymore and the player has been released. What else do you want him to do to assume responsibility? Tom Donahoe was beat up by the media/fans for this pick. Yet, everyone still loves Modrak? Huh? If Modrak wasn't here then I'll eat crow, but I'm fairly certain I remember him being asst. gm already. That has to make him semi responsible for the scouting. The blame in this scenario should fall 98% on Mike William's shoulders. He could have been a great player for the bills, but he just forgot what his proffesional career choice was. In my opinion the NFL does this to themselves. They overpay kids fresh out of college and they lose their motivation to strive for greatness. The bills got screwed by the player, not the gm. I think TD is a boner but he tried to make this team succesful. Any one who can't see that is just mad at the team's success while he was here. He tried and came up short. That's never happened to you? T_R 611362[/snapback] Bro, you're taking this way too personally. I didn't say I thought TD didn't try and I thought it was a solid pick at the time at #4. I agreed with the majority of moves TD made at the time he made them. The biggest mistakes he made were at the coaching position, not the players. The bottom line is that the team has SUCKED for his entire tenure here. You can argue the ups and downs of picks or free agent aquisitions but its all about the W's and TD didn't get many. I'd say this team isn't any better now overall than they were when he took over. If TD didn't have such a smuck attitude he may have gotten more time but I, for one, am extremely happy his ass is out of here. RTB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jokeman Posted February 26, 2006 Share Posted February 26, 2006 Wasn't the Texas QB a lefty, meaning the RT position was the equivalent of guarding his blind side? I thought TD considered this enough experience that MW could eventually play the LT, after getting his feet wet at RT. Turns out he was wrong, as we all know now. 611453[/snapback] This is the train of thought that I tried to disway people from then and now. No matter if a QB is a lefty or a righty the truth is there's a difference between playing RT and LT. As I stated in another thread a FB might be a RB but you wouldn't draft one if you need a HB. As while RTs and LTs can be grouped as OTs they are still different positions. Specifically when RTs almost always are flanked by TEs and are usually blocking teams' run stopper. It's why I was against taking MW and for taking McKinnie. This is also the same reason I am against us selecting Winston Justice this year. As many rate him as the 2nd best OT in the draft he is a RT and we need a LT (although with MW's release we could argue we need a RT too). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krazykat Posted February 26, 2006 Share Posted February 26, 2006 Mike Williams was a stud coming out of college. ESPN had him ranked as the top tackle. He's a 6'6" 360 lb monster that you would assume would continue his career of running people over and finishing his blocks. He led the nation in pancake blocks. How in the hell would Tom Donahoe or anyone else see that the kid would fall short? Is he a bust? HELL YEAH. Is there anyway you could have predicted it? HELL NO. Just like Eric Flowers and Ryan Leaf and Brian Bosworth and so forth. Players are taught to say the right things in college so you really aren't going to know who is real and who isn't until they get there. This whole business of hindsight and how some of you love to say I TOLD YOU SO, is rubbish. Every team has egg on their face from time to time. It was a bad pick 4 years ago and the Bills in essence admitted that by sending mike packing. Get over it already. T_R 611350[/snapback] Good post! Meanwhile, what we could predict, Gandy, Anderson, Smith, and some others on the OL flopping, everyone insisted that they'd be something different here than they were wasting cap space on other teams. Funny how that works, eh. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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