Buftex Posted February 21, 2006 Posted February 21, 2006 I am not smart enogh to figure out salary cap implications of roster moves. Some of you appear to be able to figure these things out pretty well... At the end of the season it seemed everyone wanted Milloy and Vincent to be cut...what is the likelihood of either, or both being cut, assuming both want to continue playing?
ACor58 Posted February 21, 2006 Posted February 21, 2006 I am not smart enogh to figure out salary cap implications of roster moves. Some of you appear to be able to figure these things out pretty well...At the end of the season it seemed everyone wanted Milloy and Vincent to be cut...what is the likelihood of either, or both being cut, assuming both want to continue playing? 608122[/snapback] Probably not as likely. Both of their cap numbers a fairly reasonable and I if Marv follows through with his plan to upgrade both OL and DL through the draft and FA I think that we will keep them. While both might have lost a step I don't think we could do much better than them in the coming year.
Rico Posted February 21, 2006 Posted February 21, 2006 According to Clump's latest, you only save $.8M by cutting Vincent... not really worth it unless you want to get rid of THE locker-room lawyer. OTOH, cutting the other Lawyer would save $2.5M... probably enough to sign (my choice) Marquand Manuel from Seattle. Him getting hurt in the SB was a big reason why they lost the game, his replacement was a true scrub who got burned on several of the bigger plays. Manuel hits just as hard as Milloy (if not harder now... one of his greatest hits this year was that pop on Shockey that somehow got ruled a TD) & at this stage of the game, he has better coverage skills.
The Jokeman Posted February 22, 2006 Posted February 22, 2006 According to Clump's latest, you only save $.8M by cutting Vincent... not really worth it unless you want to get rid of THE locker-room lawyer. OTOH, cutting the other Lawyer would save $2.5M... probably enough to sign (my choice) Marquand Manuel from Seattle. Him getting hurt in the SB was a big reason why they lost the game, his replacement was a true scrub who got burned on several of the bigger plays. Manuel hits just as hard as Milloy (if not harder now... one of his greatest hits this year was that pop on Shockey that somehow got ruled a TD) & at this stage of the game, he has better coverage skills. 608144[/snapback] Last I checked, Marquand Manuel was a FS. I know that many safeties are interchangable these days yet to me I'd rather keep a guy at the position he's most comfortable with especially if under a new coaching staff. Manuel's a nice choice but with his youth and coming off a Super Bowl season he might be well sought after ala Dexter Jackson and might not be worth the money in the end.
Rico Posted February 22, 2006 Posted February 22, 2006 Last I checked, Marquand Manuel was a FS. I know that many safeties are interchangable these days yet to me I'd rather keep a guy at the position he's most comfortable with especially if under a new coaching staff. Manuel's a nice choice but with his youth and coming off a Super Bowl season he might be well sought after ala Dexter Jackson and might not be worth the money in the end. 608312[/snapback] He's played both SS & FS in his career... he made the most of his opportunity after Hamlin got beat up, & since he hasn't been a full-time starter, I don't think he'll be that expensive. I'm not sure if he leaves a SB team though.
Pyrite Gal Posted February 22, 2006 Posted February 22, 2006 I am not smart enogh to figure out salary cap implications of roster moves. Some of you appear to be able to figure these things out pretty well...At the end of the season it seemed everyone wanted Milloy and Vincent to be cut...what is the likelihood of either, or both being cut, assuming both want to continue playing? 608122[/snapback] A lot of this is not simply an assessment of how much does a player cost versus the norm for the position, but also what is available to replace that player on the open market. One of the "benefits" Milloy received from Belicheck playing Russian roulette with him pushing him until the last minute and figuring that he would cave (or "do the right thing for the team" depending on how you want to characterize the exact same action depending upon your ideology) was that he entered a marketplace where the supply of former Pro Bowl safeties was low (namely 1) and the demand for any competent safety from teams with cap room was high (at least two teams who could bid against each other the Bills and the Bears). TD gave Milloy a "take-out" bid in a take it or leave it offer that was so high that Milloy took it and the Bills avoided a bidding war with Chicago. There were a bunch of safeties in the NFL who were better performers or on the frontside of their careers other than Milloy. However, none of these players was available and this Milloy was overpaid based on his quality of play, but the Bills made a great deal to get him we had only Coy Wire as an alternative as both had Cota and Ainseky Battle has reached agreements with the Bills to play safety and then up and retired. As far as expectations, a lot of folks on TSW were saying cut both and overpaid TV and Milloy, but these notes appeared to be little more than the usual whining and bleating of us disappointed fans which had little to do with real assessment of their play and even less to do with the reality of the cap (which admittedly I and a good chunk of NFL professionals do not fully understand actually as the CBA is long, changing, and convoluted). The kwy numbers quoted in this thread are the relative cap savings of cutting these players which is substantial for Milloy and pretty small if you cut TV. Add into this (and actually overiding this in real life) that the Bills are switching to the Cover 2 D which likely will require the safeties to play more like CBs who play centerfield rather like LBs crowding the LOS in the zone blitz. Both experienced players like TV amd Milloy will benefit from this switch in that it will use their skills in reading and diagnosing plays which is enhanced by playing a bunch of games. However in a traditional Cover 2 these safeties will have a lot of field to cover and speed will be a real asset (this is less but still true if what the Bills end up employing is something more like Monte Kiffin's Cover 3 which gives the safeties a "mere" 1/3 of the field to cover. My guess is right now that likely TV stays (particularly since statistically he tied for the team lead in INTs and FR last year) but the potential is really there when we see who gets cut and what the market looks like that Milloy will either have to take a significant readjustment of his salary or be cut.
shibuya Posted February 22, 2006 Posted February 22, 2006 We need to get replacements at S well groomed before we can have the luxury of cutting either Vincent or Milloy. We should draft a S on day 1 this year IMO
BADOLBILZ Posted February 22, 2006 Posted February 22, 2006 I am not smart enogh to figure out salary cap implications of roster moves. Some of you appear to be able to figure these things out pretty well...At the end of the season it seemed everyone wanted Milloy and Vincent to be cut...what is the likelihood of either, or both being cut, assuming both want to continue playing? 608122[/snapback] Mark Gaughan says that Milloys' $4M cap figure is manageable. But Sam Adams $3.8M MUST be re-negotiated. Mark believes you build a defense from the backfield in.
Simon Posted February 22, 2006 Posted February 22, 2006 Mark Gaughan says that Milloys' $4M cap figure is manageable. But Sam Adams $3.8M MUST be re-negotiated. Mark believes you build a defense from the backfield in. 608446[/snapback] Yeah because 350lb cat-quick veteran DT's are a dime a dozen.
Bill from NYC Posted February 22, 2006 Posted February 22, 2006 Yeah because 350lb cat-quick veteran DT's are a dime a dozen. 608452[/snapback] It is scary to think what was done to this team. If the Bills draft Ngata and he is great, chances are they will need to go after another DT very soon because Adams isn't getting any younger. We need an OT, 2 Guards, and our OC (assuming it will be Preston) is an unknown factor. But, we DO have a surplus of small wideouts and injured TEs.
30dive Posted February 22, 2006 Posted February 22, 2006 It is scary to think what was done to this team. If the Bills draft Ngata and he is great, chances are they will need to go after another DT very soon because Adams isn't getting any younger. We need an OT, 2 Guards, and our OC (assuming it will be Preston) is an unknown factor. But, we DO have a surplus of small wideouts and injured TEs. 608465[/snapback] Wow! That pretty much sums it up....Perfectly!
Orton's Arm Posted February 22, 2006 Posted February 22, 2006 It is scary to think what was done to this team. If the Bills draft Ngata and he is great, chances are they will need to go after another DT very soon because Adams isn't getting any younger. We need an OT, 2 Guards, and our OC (assuming it will be Preston) is an unknown factor. But, we DO have a surplus of small wideouts and injured TEs. 608465[/snapback] Agreed. I found a link that's a pretty good summary of TD's failures here in Buffalo: http://blogs.foxsports.com/patmoran2006/20...JiePTkTxcH7MX2Q
Rico Posted February 22, 2006 Posted February 22, 2006 Agreed. I found a link that's a pretty good summary of TD's failures here in Buffalo: http://blogs.foxsports.com/patmoran2006/20...JiePTkTxcH7MX2Q 608613[/snapback] That list is very flawed... one of his biggest top 3 mistakes was not dumping Bledsoe after the 2003 season.
Ray Posted February 22, 2006 Posted February 22, 2006 Many on this board wanted everyone cut! The problem with cutting people is that you have to replace them with someone else---and pay them. This a little point many seem to have forgotten.
Rico Posted February 22, 2006 Posted February 22, 2006 Many on this board wanted everyone cut! The problem with cutting people is that you have to replace them with someone else---and pay them. This a little point many seem to have forgotten. 608662[/snapback] Very true. But when it's obvious that said players aren't going to help get you where you want to go, it's better IMO to replace them with cheaper players & use the savings elsewhere. If TD had started doing this after the dreadful 2003 season, we might not be in the mess we're in now, & he still might've had his job... no point in keeping dead weight at all.
MadBuffaloDisease Posted February 22, 2006 Posted February 22, 2006 Many on this board wanted everyone cut! The problem with cutting people is that you have to replace them with someone else---and pay them. This a little point many seem to have forgotten. On the "These Players Must Be Released" thread, I outlined which players I think should be cut and restructured, and the final analysis was that the Bills could be about $30M under the cap without hurting the team too much, and with a real chance to improve the team if they get some good FA's in here. And while it wasn't a 1-for-1 WRT replacing the cut players, remember there is a draft and the Bills will have at least 8 picks (and I'm expecting a 9th, as a comp pick).
Orton's Arm Posted February 23, 2006 Posted February 23, 2006 That list is very flawed... one of his biggest top 3 mistakes was not dumping Bledsoe after the 2003 season. 608636[/snapback] I can see where you're going with this, and I agree Bledsoe was flawed. But the Bills had a veteran defense built to win now. Many of the defense's veterans only had a brief window in which they'd continue to be good, so for them it was a now or never situation. Unless you could find a very polished college QB--like Roethlisberger--it would have been a mistake to use a high draft pick on a long-term project like a rookie QB. Better to use those draft picks on the OL, and on defense. So that leaves the two choices for the 2004 starter as Roethlisberger, and a veteran QB. But the market for veteran QBs was pretty thin. You wouldn't want to get rid of Bledsoe to bring in a guy like Gus Frerotte. Kurt Warner had potential to give you an upgrade over Bledsoe, but there were questions about him. I can't think of any other veteran QBs that might have been an upgrade over Bledsoe, but maybe I'm forgetting someone. I'm not saying this to praise Bledsoe; it's just that I really don't think there was much of anything on the free agent market.
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