What should the Bills have done at QB

[ofiba]

Didn't Spiked Lemonade get banned for the same type of crusade?

[The Dean]

Somehow, I don't see Big Ben getting outplayed by Holcomb to the extent JP was. Would Ben have had the same opportunity to excel here he's had in Pittsburgh? No. But he would have given us a lot more reason to feel secure at the QB position than JP has.

604988[/snapback]

 

 

I can't see that at all, unless the coaches designed a better game plan for Ben. Put Ben in the same situations as they put JP and you'd get the same results, IMO.

[The Dean]

Didn't Spiked Lemonade get banned for the same type of crusade?

604990[/snapback]

 

 

Yup. But, there may have been more to it.

[tennesseeboy]

Was trading up for Ben Rothlinsberger ever a real option? I suspect Pittsburgh was pretty big on the guy.

[Orton's Arm]

I can't see that at all, unless the coaches designed a better game plan for Ben.  Put Ben in the same situations as they put JP and you'd get the same results, IMO.

604991[/snapback]

You honestly didn't see anything wrong with JP's play other than the situation around him?

[Rico]

Hey Arm, what do you think of Holcomb being listed as the #1 QB on the new interactive depth chart on the gov't site?

 

Thanks to Florio for the link

[Dan Gross]

Was trading up for Ben Rothlinsberger ever a real option? I suspect Pittsburgh was pretty big on the guy.

604993[/snapback]

 

We could have franchised and traded Winfield to the Texans for their #1 pick (they picked a CB, they obviously needed one), then taken Big Ben....

[Dan Gross]

I can't see that at all, unless the coaches designed a better game plan for Ben.  Put Ben in the same situations as they put JP and you'd get the same results, IMO.

604991[/snapback]

 

What you mean that the Steelers success with a young QB had something to do with the fact that they had a top defense + #1 in rushing attempts/game + #32 in passing attempts per game? No, it was all Big Ben. I mean, look at how he carried the team in the Super Bowl!

[Orton's Arm]

What you mean that the Steelers success with a young QB had something to do with the fact that they had a top defense + #1 in rushing attempts/game + #32 in passing attempts per game?  No, it was all Big Ben.  I mean, look at how he carried the team in the Super Bowl!

605008[/snapback]

My point had more to do with the fact that both Roethlisberger and Losman faced competition from veteran QBs who'd never quite established themselves as starters. But while Roethisberger clearly outplayed Maddox, Losman clearly didn't play as well as Holcomb.

[Dan Gross]

My point had more to do with the fact that both Roethlisberger and Losman faced competition from veteran QBs who'd never quite established themselves as starters. But while Roethisberger clearly outplayed Maddox, Losman clearly didn't play as well as Holcomb.

605019[/snapback]

 

Since Roeth clearly outplayed Maddox he was handed the starting job in game one, correct? Or was it that the injury to Maddox forced them to play Roeth, so they adapted their game-plan to something a little simpler, propping their "not quite ready" (again, if he had been ready he would have been starting day 1) QB up for success? They clicked off 7 wins under Roeth before Maddox was ready to play again, so why play him then? They had a formula that worked.

 

Don't pretend that Roeth playing 2004 was part of the plan, or that he "earned" the starting nod. Pitt hit a good formula for success with Roeth and stayed with it. The Bills went into 2005 with many assumptions that didn't pan out, included two that were key to Pitt's success in 2004: great defense and great running game...Then they threw Losman in figuring he wouldn't be expected to win the games with his arm...

[The Dean]

You honestly didn't see anything wrong with JP's play other than the situation around him? 

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Other than inexperience and poor play calling, not really. I saw him make HUGE progress in the few games he played. He has all the tools to be a better QB than Ben, to be truthful. With the Bills Ben may have made fewer mistakes than JP...but, I don't think he'd have made as many big plays, either.

 

Coming out of college I thought it was clear (at least to me):

 

Ben was the most ready to play right away, but there was a risk (small, in my eyes) that he would wash-out

 

Eli was the best bet to not wash out (I think I called him the closest to a "sure thing" you'd ever see from a college QB). There was NO WAY he was going to be a Ryan Leaf or Jeff George

 

JP had the most talent and biggest upside...but, the rawest. He was going to show some ups and downs early, I thought. I figured there was a small (but bigger than Ben) chance he'd be a wash-out .

Rivers had intangables...but was a college QB, in my eyes. I never thought he was early 1st round material. I figure with good coaching he'd be a capable back-up...OR, in the exact right situation, a terrific system QB.

 

So, I expected JP to be erratic...and to show amazing talent. I really think he's done that despite:

 

A terrible OL

Terrible play calling and a refusal by the coaching staff to use the run when he played

A crummy D tht put a lot of pressure on a young QB

Benched early in the season and later in the year.

 

Not only did JP impress with his on-the-field play, IMO...he REALLY impressed in the area most (not me) questioned about him. His attitude is OUTSTANDING and cannot be questioned, IMO. He says the right things, works hard and takes responsibility.

 

Do we know if he'll be successful? Not yet...he needs to play more (as does any QB with 8 starts and two [not three] NFL seasons)...let's try to remember he was injured his rookie year before the season started. But, I see no reason he won't be successful in this league. He's doing all the right things on and off the field to make it happen.

 

For the sake of Leadership issues, JP needs to win the job outright in camp. I don't think that will present much of a problem for him. If I ran the camp it wouldn't be close as I wouldn't put my QB in a position to carry this team. BUT, I'd expect the QB to be able to make things happen with his feet, if necessary and throw the ball down the field. JP will crush KH in those two areas without question, in my mind.

[The Jokeman]

I voted Other as leading up to the 2004 draft I felt we should have taken Matt Schaub in the 3rd Round of that draft. Of course let's not forget that in that offseason the Bills did try hard to sign Billy Volek which might have been the best plan overall.

[Orton's Arm]

Don't pretend that Roeth playing 2004 was part of the plan, or that he "earned" the starting nod.

605041[/snapback]

I won't. But if you compare Maddox's play in 2003 with Roethlisberger's in 2004, it's clear which QB did better.

[Orton's Arm]

I voted Other as leading up to the 2004 draft I felt we should have taken Matt Schaub in the 3rd Round of that draft. Of course let's not forget that in that offseason the Bills did try hard to sign Billy Volek which might have been the best plan overall.

605066[/snapback]

Those would have been strong options, and I should have included them in the poll.

[Dan Gross]

I won't. But if you compare Maddox's play in 2003 with Roethlisberger's in 2004, it's clear which QB did better.

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So Maddox with Bettis as the "premiere back" (3.3 YPC) was worse than Roeth with the Staley/Bettis combo that averaged 4.0 YPC...with 11 more pass attempts per game in 2003....hmmmmmm....

[mead107]

It is a true talent you have, finding new and different ways to post on the same topic every day and keep it fresh.

 

It's also !@#$ing annoying.  But it is a talent.

604886[/snapback]

very well said . big ben would be like manning and the giants , not worth sh-- .

[BB2004]

If you knew then what you know now, which direction would you go in?

604727[/snapback]

 

Thats right

[Risin]

haha!

 

Can't believe this dude is still here.

 

Can we bring Spiked back now?

 

At least he had some knowledge of the game.

[drnykterstein]

CANT BELIEVE THIS HASN"T BEEN SAID?!?!!

 

-Dont make any trades. Use The 2nd rounder on OL/DL. Then draft Matt Shaub in the 3rd round.

 

-Keep Bledsoe around for one more year (as we did) then decide on Bledsoe, Shaub, or other as your QB depending on who has been playing the best.

 

-Use 1st rounder from 2004 on something good also. (Better than Roscoe Parish and Kevin Everett at least).

[The Dean]

haha!

 

Can't believe this dude is still here.

 

Can we bring Spiked back now?

 

At least he had some knowledge of the game.

605195[/snapback]

 

 

The Arm reminds me a little of Jerry Sullivan. He can write OK and he can, on occasion, sound intelligent. But he seems to have no feel for football. It doesn't seem as though he gets the game...doesn't understand nuance and such.

 

Or, he could just be a troll pain-in-the-ass.