What are the general opinions on a flat tax?

[OnTheRocks]

Cal Thomas makes some very good arguements in this article:

 

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,132900,00.html

[tennesseeboy]

Interesting idea. Of course taxing all transactions might have a negative effect on American Enterprise since we would be taxing transactions that add cost to the transactions. I want to buy jet aircraft from the USA company at x million dollars plus the tax of y. I can buy the jet aircraft from France at a price of merely x million dollars. I suppose it is worth looking at, as it puts a significant price tag on consumerism. I suspect that in the details we'd run across the same problems we have with the existing tax code. Pharmaceuticals become exempt, special interests corrupt pretty much whatever system we put in.

[GG]

Let's get the two concepts straight first (although both merit serious consideration)

 

A consumption tax is a nationwide sales/VAT tax will tax consumers or any purchaser of an end good. It is simple and effective, but there is concern that the marginal rates will be higher for the lower class, as the tax constitutes a higher proportion of disposable income. You can establish certain tax-free threshholds for food, clothes, etc. But the main goal is to simplify the tax code and encourage saving over conspicuous consumption.

 

A flat tax can be used to describe the VAT, but it is also a theory of totally simplifying the income tax code by making a tax return a 3 line item - income, tax rate, and tax. The tax rate will be a low flat rate (15%) for everybody, will get rid of all deductions and will eliminate the gaming that's going on right now.

 

Either one of the above is a good idea, if implemented.

[Alaska Darin]

Let's get the two concepts straight first (although both merit serious consideration)

 

A consumption tax is a nationwide sales/VAT tax will tax consumers or any purchaser of an end good.  It is simple and effective, but there is concern that the marginal rates will be higher for the lower class, as the tax constitutes a higher proportion of disposable income.  You can establish certain tax-free threshholds for food, clothes, etc.  But the main goal is to simplify the tax code and encourage saving over conspicuous consumption.

 

A flat tax can be used to describe the VAT, but it is also a theory of totally simplifying the income tax code by making a tax return a 3 line item - income, tax rate, and tax.  The tax rate will be a low flat rate (15%) for everybody, will get rid of all deductions and will eliminate the gaming that's going on right now.

 

Either one of the above is a good idea, if implemented.

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I agree, but ONLY if the Federal government eliminates ALL other forms of their taxation (cigarettes, gasoline, tariffs, etc). That will allow Americans to finally understand how much money they are really sending to Washington.

[OnTheRocks]

i think (IMHO) as i have been reading the book "PATRIOTS" by A.J. Langguth (which tells the story of the American Revolution)

 

the US is fortunate that there hasn't been a Tea Party of sorts since many of us here in NY State feel we are under Taxation without Representation.

[GG]

i think (IMHO) as i have been reading the book "PATRIOTS"  by A.J. Langguth (which tells the story of the American Revolution)

 

the US is fortunate that there hasn't been a Tea Party of sorts since many of us here in NY State feel we are under Taxation without Representation.

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Try being a NJ resident and paying the same tax as a NYS resident.

[OnTheRocks]

Try being a NJ resident and paying the same tax as a NYS resident.

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really? what is the gas price in NJ ?

i paid 1.98 yesterday and that was at BJ's Wholesale Club.

[JimBob2232]

I am mildly adverse to a flat tax. At least a pure flat tax like we have been accustomed to hearing about. While I do feel taxes are extremely high in this country, I do also feel it is fair for people who earn more money pay a marginally higher income tax rate. (though not at the disparity we are currently seeing).

 

I like the national sales tax approach. But again, it MUST be met with the elimination of at least the income tax, and preferably all taxes. One of the big benefits of this plan, is the increased revenue from currently untaxable sources. With a national sales tax, all revenue from drugs and gambing (two sources of income, which goes unreported). Drug dealers certainally wouldnt even think about putting their drug revenue on a 1040. But they will go out and buy that new mercades. And when they do, they will pay the national sales tax on it.

 

This NST must be done carefully as to not disproportionatly affect the lower class. The rebate plan the Government has thought of, isnt a bad start, though I would also like to see all food purchases and clothing under $500 dollars be tax exempt at the federal level.

 

Good discussion to be having in washington. Much better than who did what in the 1970s thats for sure.

[Andy Rooney]

You know what I hate? I hate taxes

You know what really bothers me? Its when I have to lie

on my 1040

 

I hope John Kerry gets elected so I have to pay more taxes. Plus he fought

in the Nam.

 

 

Did'ja ever notice all that spiz that comes out of my eye's when I talk?

[GG]

really?  what is the gas price in NJ ?

i paid 1.98 yesterday and that was at BJ's Wholesale Club.

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I was talking about the income tax. Out of state residents who work in NYS pay the same tax to NYS as NYS residents, but get no vote in NYS as to how that money is spent.

[KD in CA]

I was talking about the income tax.  Out of state residents who work in NYS pay the same tax to NYS as NYS residents, but get no vote in NYS as to how that money is spent.

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The day they put the NYC commuter tax back in place is the day I send my resume out all over Stamford.

[IUBillsFan]

I was talking about the income tax.  Out of state residents who work in NYS pay the same tax to NYS as NYS residents, but get no vote in NYS as to how that money is spent.

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When you go on vacation and buy something and pay sales tax you can't tell that state how to spend it either.

[GG]

When you go on vacation and buy something and pay sales tax you can't tell that state how to spend it either.

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But I can decide whether I want to buy the product or not.

[IUBillsFan]

But I can decide whether I want to buy the product or not.

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You can't decide where you live and work?

[GG]

You can't decide where you live and work?

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Yes, I can.

 

But of course, I'll concede you the point of using a sales/hotel/usage taxes in vacation areas as an example of taxation without representation, notwithstanding the specious nature of the magnitude of that taxation relative to an income tax of 8.75% on daily wages.

 

I'll just let the booming office markets on the Jersey City waterfront and Stamford make my point for me.

[Alaska Darin]

Yes, I can. 

 

But of course, I'll concede you the point of using a sales/hotel/usage taxes in vacation areas as an example of taxation without representation, notwithstanding the specious nature of the magnitude of that taxation relative to an income tax of 8.75% on daily wages.

 

I'll just let the booming office markets on the Jersey City waterfront and Stamford make my point for me.

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That is one of the things that REALLY pisses me off. They're trying to raise the bed tax in Anchorage yet again to fund a CITY owned convention center. If there were money to be made from such an endeavor, a DEVELOPMENT company would already be building it at THEIR expense.

 

People like to pretend that taxes on non-residents don't affect them. Guess they don't travel very often.

[Moose]

Try being a NJ resident and paying the same tax as a NYS resident.

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Try being a CT resident and paying a property tax (mine was $800 this year) on a car, on which you already paid an exorbitant sales tax when you bought it! Of course, every time this car is resold the buyer will pay both sales tax and property tax on it. Talk about double dipping!

 

I miss living in NY State.

[stuckincincy]

I think is's unlikely to happen, flat tax or NST, bcause it would be antagonistic to one of the most basic tenets of American politics, which took firm root during the FDR administrations:

 

"If you rob Peter to pay Paul, you can be relatively certain that Paul will vote for you".

 

Benjamin Franklin was right when he stated, "When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic."

 

If Congress cannot favor this one and punish that one via taxation, they lose a lot of their ability to perpetrate extortion, and without that, not many folks would be knocking on their door with bags full of loot or treating them to fact-finding junkets to h*llholes like Monte Carlo or Aruba to discuss

"vital"issues of deep national import.

[TPS]

I think is's unlikely to happen, flat tax or NST, bcause it would be antagonistic to one of the most basic tenets of American politics, which took firm root during the FDR administrations:

 

"If you rob Peter to pay Paul, you can be relatively certain that Paul will vote for you".

 

Benjamin Franklin was right when he stated, "When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic."

 

If Congress cannot favor this one and punish that one via taxation, they lose a lot of their ability to perpetrate extortion, and without that, not many folks would be knocking on their door with bags full of loot or treating them to fact-finding junkets to h*llholes like Monte Carlo or Aruba to discuss

"vital"issues of deep national import.

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Seems to me there's a bit of a contradiction in your argument. I assume you mean that those in the lower classes who would end up paying higher taxes wouldn't support either the flat or vat?

 

If so, how is it that congress was able to pass a tax change that cut taxes on dividends and eliminated the estate tax, when almost all of the benefits of these accrue to the top 2% of households?

[Alaska Darin]

Seems to me there's a bit of a contradiction in your argument.  I assume you mean that those in the lower classes who would end up paying higher taxes wouldn't support either the flat or vat?

 

If so, how is it that congress was able to pass a tax change that cut taxes on dividends and eliminated the estate tax, when almost all of the benefits of these accrue to the top 2% of households?

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Oh, now only the top 2% pay taxes on dividends? I guess the IRS owes me some money.