Ghost of BiB Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 This thread breaks the PPP Record for fastest and most effective hijacking Ever... I guess the original subject was just a little too hot for the right wing ball washing crowd to handle. 604519[/snapback] What's to talk about? And what does any of it have to do with "ball washing"? Anything mentioned in the article looks to be internal issues with different organizations. Were people wronged for doing the right thing? Probably. Sure looks like it. Is this a problem that just invented itself during the current administration? I doubt it. Chances are very good that many of the principles involved have been around through several administrations and have done bad things to people in an effort to protect their own ass. I'm all for people whistle blowing re: fraud, waste and abuse. I take exception with announcing aspects of classified national security issues to the world. The very mention of certain things can have ramifications that go way beyond the particular issue being discussed. For those particular "whistle blowers", it's not their right to make that particular call in a public forum. They have an obligation NOT to. There are other venues for them to raise questions without involving and informing the rest of the world. IMO, the NY Times is not a proper venue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevbeau Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 Certainly. That was very neo-con blame someone else of me. (I still question why the poster wants to think people here are that stupid...) All restaraunts are now Taco Bell. 604394[/snapback] You are fined one credit for a violation of the Verbal Morality Statute. Life imitates art?...if you can call Demolition Man art. I used to think it was funny, now it's scenarios on future society are scary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 You are fined one credit for a violation of the Verbal Morality Statute.Life imitates art?...if you can call Demolition Man art. I used to think it was funny, now it's scenarios on future society are scary. 604611[/snapback] No kidding. Implanted chips, political correctness, anti-smoking and drinking fervor... It wasn't all that far off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of BiB Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 KFC, Pizza Hut and Baskin-Robbins...all from the same take-out window... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPS Posted February 16, 2006 Author Share Posted February 16, 2006 What's to talk about? And what does any of it have to do with "ball washing"? Anything mentioned in the article looks to be internal issues with different organizations. 1.The guys from "Able Danger" prevented from passing along info to FBI about Atta. 2. Someone saying it was Sr. officers NOT the rank and file who were guilty at Abu Grhaib. 3. NSA pursuing unconstitutional spying. 4. Altered terrorism documents in Florida. Yea, it's just internal issues... Chances are very good that many of the principles involved have been around through several administrations and have done bad things to people in an effort to protect their own ass. Yea, that's all it is, disgruntled workers protecting themselves... These aren't partisan issues. These people are trying to point out some very serious shortcomings in our efforts to prevent terrorist attacks, unconstitutional acts by the NSA, and acts that go to the very core of what the US represents. Maybe you righties trivialize this because it implies incompetent and illegal activities under this administration's watch. I don't care who is to blame, but I do care that FBI and counter-terrorism agents are being prevented from doing their jobs by higher ups. I do care that the administration is trying to circumvent the constitution. I do care that treating prisoners like we have at AG and Gitmo makes us no different than the terrorists. One of these days the lemmings are going to wake up and wonder what happened to their freedoms, because they have (not all, fortunately there are some conservatives who stick to their values) allowed this administration to do anything it pleases in the name of fighting terrorism. Now, let the boys go back to the playground... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 1.The guys from "Able Danger" prevented from passing along info to FBI about Atta. 3. NSA pursuing unconstitutional spying. Is anyone else just !@#$ing blown away that TPS doesn't see the inherent contradiction here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverNRed Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 Is anyone else just !@#$ing blown away that TPS doesn't see the inherent contradiction here? 604763[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPS Posted February 16, 2006 Author Share Posted February 16, 2006 Is anyone else just !@#$ing blown away that TPS doesn't see the inherent contradiction here? 604763[/snapback] How do you know they weren't using FISA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 How do you know they weren't using FISA? 604767[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPS Posted February 16, 2006 Author Share Posted February 16, 2006 Is anyone else just !@#$ing blown away that TPS doesn't see the inherent contradiction here? 604763[/snapback] Maybe you should do a little search on Able Danger; you'll find there is a difference between listening in on US residents and listening in on suspected foreign nationals outside the US.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 Maybe you should do a little search on Able Danger; you'll find there is a difference between listening in on US residents and listening in on suspected foreign nationals outside the US.... 604797[/snapback] How big a difference is it between listening in on suspected foreign nationals outside the US and suspected foreign nationals INSIDE the US? Do you really know who they were tapping? What constitutes a resident? Would a terrorists plotting bad things living in an apartment in Lackawana be considered a US resident and if so should we just give him a pass because he LIVES here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of BiB Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 Maybe you should do a little search on Able Danger; you'll find there is a difference between listening in on US residents and listening in on suspected foreign nationals outside the US.... 604797[/snapback] And, a lot of what you are cranked about has already been fixed. I'm not saying that wasn't the way it was at the time. Folks within this community have to operate within the laws and regulations that govern their functions and actions. And, referring to the article and it's intent- I still say it's about internal issues with certain peoples and probably personalities. What one doesn't hear about, are those people who discover stuff wrong - get it pointed out to the right people - and get stuff fixed WITHOUT going outside the system. There is actually a lot of that, but it doesn't make for what some people here consider "good, righteous news". I also notice you choosing not to address the part about going outside the system because it can create bigger problems. I guess my point is, and continues to be that there is often more than one aspect to things receiving media attention - but the media will always portray it in a light to suit their purpose, either intentionally or unintentionally. Probably as much or even more significance to the things that don't reach the media, for whatever reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPS Posted February 16, 2006 Author Share Posted February 16, 2006 How big a difference is it between listening in on suspected foreign nationals outside the US and suspected foreign nationals INSIDE the US? Do you really know who they were tapping? What constitutes a resident? Would a terrorists plotting bad things living in an apartment in Lackawana be considered a US resident and if so should we just give him a pass because he LIVES here? 604811[/snapback] That's what the FISA court does. It gives the ok to do domestic wire tapping on suspected terrorists. From what I've read, the AD group was restricted and focused on external suspects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 Maybe you should do a little search on Able Danger; you'll find there is a difference between listening in on US residents and listening in on suspected foreign nationals outside the US.... 604797[/snapback] Maybe you should do a little search on Able Danger and posse comitatus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RkFast Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 No kidding. Implanted chips, political correctness, anti-smoking and drinking fervor... It wasn't all that far off. 604614[/snapback] A chance to nail Sandra Bullock....and you dont even get to touch her??!!?? Thats just.....wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 A chance to nail Sandra Bullock....and you dont even get to touch her??!!?? Thats just.....wrong. 604959[/snapback] Eh, she doesn't do much for me. And besides, she's getting it from that drunken wild-man Jesse James. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPS Posted February 17, 2006 Author Share Posted February 17, 2006 And, a lot of what you are cranked about has already been fixed. I'm not saying that wasn't the way it was at the time. Folks within this community have to operate within the laws and regulations that govern their functions and actions. And, referring to the article and it's intent- I still say it's about internal issues with certain peoples and probably personalities. What one doesn't hear about, are those people who discover stuff wrong - get it pointed out to the right people - and get stuff fixed WITHOUT going outside the system. There is actually a lot of that, but it doesn't make for what some people here consider "good, righteous news". I also notice you choosing not to address the part about going outside the system because it can create bigger problems. I guess my point is, and continues to be that there is often more than one aspect to things receiving media attention - but the media will always portray it in a light to suit their purpose, either intentionally or unintentionally. Probably as much or even more significance to the things that don't reach the media, for whatever reason. 604816[/snapback] This administration has been the most secretive and vindictive in history. Political hacks and yesmen have been put in postions of power everywhere--you don't get in unless you pass the GOP Litmus test. I know we went over this, and your argument is that it's really about "resistance to change," but I have a hard time believing (agreeing with) someone who tries to appear objective, but everything posted just happens to support the administration. With respect to "going outside the system," of the cases noted which one(s) "create bigger problems, and why?" What specifically came out publicly that Al Queda doesn't already know or thought about? That we're data mining US residents whether we think they are involved in terrorism or not (like anti-war groups)? What's to prevent Bush/Cheney/Rove from "accidentally" eaves dropping for political advantages? I'm sorry my sarcasm is hard to suppress, but seriously, convince me on this one: how, specifically, have these particular whistle blowers created bigger problems? Thanks. By the way, if I don't respond, it's because I'm leaving shortly for the long weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPS Posted February 17, 2006 Author Share Posted February 17, 2006 Maybe you should do a little search on Able Danger and posse comitatus. 604873[/snapback] Thanks. That certainly clears up how I contradicted myself.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of BiB Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 By the way, if I don't respond, it's because I'm leaving shortly for the long weekend. Wish I could. Enjoy yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 Thanks. That certainly clears up how I contradicted myself.... 605587[/snapback] It would, if you did the research on posse comitatus and Able Danger... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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