(OT) Do the idiots running the NHL realize ...

[Guest Guest]

Sundin

Khabibulin

 

to  name just two players who would be excluded if that rule was enforced.

 

dumb idea.

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And the list doesn't stop at these two. A great many excellent European players will be ruled out of the NHL as I envision but so be it. The league was at it's best many years ago without them and it can great without them now.

[Like A Mofo]

And the list doesn't stop at these two.  A great many excellent European players will be ruled out of the NHL as I envision but so be it.  The league was at it's best many years ago without them and it can great without them now.

44244[/snapback]

 

 

Hasek is an example too correct?

 

Oh thats right, he is just a jerk to Sabres fans, he did NOTHING for them I forgot

[Alaska Darin]

No worries JP. With any luck the NHL as a league will fold and the vacuum will be filled by a league that cares more about the game than it does it's American TV demographic.

The NHL has been virtually unwatchable for several years now. Between the 7 extra teams, the tiny rinks, the use of centerred for anything but icing and the refusal of zebras to keep a handle on the 150 undertalented waterskiers who don't even belong in the big league, the league has become nothing mroe than a poor imitation of the world's second greatest sport.

I, for one, hope the small-minded, lawyer-infested, short-sighted NHL never ever returns. If I have to go w/o pro hockey for a couple years to get a fresh start, then so be it.

Cya

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A-Fuggin'-men. I hate Gary Bettman and the rest of his cronies (YOU TOO, WAYNE!) for what they've done to the game and their refusal to make changes.

[USMCBillsFan]

I can think of 5 teams from the get go that would be canned ahead of the Sabres.

 

Phoenix

Columbus

Minnesota

Nashville

Carolina

 

Get rid of these teams. It helps consolidate the NHL more in Canada where the bigger interest is. Then, contract the schedule to maybe 72 or 65 games - make playoff games best of 5, not 7 - and the wildcars are best of 1.

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Hockey will stay in Carolina as well. Believe it or not it's very popular in Raleigh. Their run a few years ago helped but people go to Carolina games regularly.

[PastaJoe]

I can think of 5 teams from the get go that would be canned ahead of the Sabres.

 

Phoenix

Columbus

Minnesota

Nashville

Carolina

 

Get rid of these teams. It helps consolidate the NHL more in Canada where the bigger interest is. Then, contract the schedule to maybe 72 or 65 games - make playoff games best of 5, not 7 - and the wildcars are best of 1.

 

Minnesota and Columbus are stronger financially than the Sabres, and have better lease agreements. Pittsburgh and Buffalo would go before these two. And the owners would not want to reduce the playoffs. The players are only payed by the teams for the regular season. All the profits made from playoff games go to the owners.

[***PetrinoInAlbany***]

-What blows my mind is that NHL players have the highest average player salaries in sports. But another poster (above, somewhere) pointed out something that's bugged me for years about the NHL ...

-

-I grew up in Amherst. I learned to skate when I was so young I still thought "porn" was sneaking peeks at African women villagers' breasts in Dad's National Geographic. Ice hockey was like a religion. I had a rink in my back yard. So did a lot of kids. Hell, a friend of mine, Rick Frenning - Assemblyman Frenning's son - actually had a rink in their yard with BOARDS and LIGHTS! We'd play games starting at ten at night and play until our ankles gave. Your parents would see you going out at ten on a school night with your stick and skates over your shoulder, and they didn't even have to ask what you were doing. We worshipped Martin (met him, he married a neighbor of mine), Perreault, and Robert. When I got older, my buds and I would all chip in and pay whatever they were asking to rent a rink for two hours... And when the only times available were from 1AM to 3AM, we took it! And we were glad to get it, too.

-

-My point? Do kids growing up in Phoenix and Nashville and Tampa start skating at ten? Do they have rinks in their back yards? Could they take a pass between the ankles on the fly (without looking) and find the slot in their sleep, and still be not NEARLY good enough to make their high school team? Do they even know who the hell Rod Gilbert, Roger Crozier, Guy Lafleur, Eddie Shack, Tom Lysiak, Jerry Korab, and Dave Taylor ARE? Probably not. So why does the NHL blindly chase demographic shifts? Why are their teams in places where it's 85 in January? It's ridiculous, man. Just ridiculous.

-

- I love the game, and I love the NHL. Hell, I loved the AHL, too. (Must be a Buffalo thing ... The AMERICAN Football League .... The AMERICAN Hockey League ...) I know I'm ranting, but a great league and a beautiful sport are being mucked up by a bunch of idiots. (*sigh*) OK ... I'm finished. Sorry, guys.

[Beerball]

-What blows my mind is that NHL players have the highest average player salaries in sports. But another poster (above, somewhere) pointed out something that's bugged me for years about the NHL ...

-

-I grew up in Amherst. I learned to skate when I was so young I still thought "porn" was sneaking peeks at African women villagers' breasts in Dad's National Geographic. Ice hockey was like a religion. I had a rink in my back yard. So did a lot of kids. Hell, a friend of mine, Rick Frenning - Assemblyman Frenning's son - actually had a rink in their yard with BOARDS and LIGHTS! We'd play games starting at ten at night and play until our ankles gave. Your parents would see you going out at ten on a school night with your stick and skates over your shoulder, and they didn't even have to ask what you were doing. We worshipped Martin (met him, he married a neighbor of mine), Perreault, and Robert. When I got older, my buds and I would all chip in and pay whatever they were asking to rent a rink for two hours... And when the only times available were from 1AM to 3AM, we took it! And we were glad to get it, too.

-

-My point? Do kids growing up in Phoenix and Nashville and Tampa start skating at ten? Do they have rinks in their back yards? Could they take a pass between the ankles on the fly (without looking) and find the slot in their sleep, and still be not NEARLY good enough to make their high school team? Do they even know who the hell Rod Gilbert, Roger Crozier, Guy Lafleur, Eddie Shack, Tom Lysiak, Jerry Korab, and Dave Taylor ARE? Probably not. So why does the NHL blindly chase demographic shifts? Why are their teams in places where it's 85 in January? It's ridiculous, man. Just ridiculous.

-

- I love the game, and I love the NHL. Hell, I loved the AHL, too. (Must be a Buffalo thing ... The AMERICAN Football League .... The AMERICAN Hockey League ...) I know I'm ranting, but a great league and a beautiful sport are being mucked up by a bunch of idiots. (*sigh*) OK ... I'm finished. Sorry, guys.

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I can't answer for Phoenix, but I can for Dallas.

 

While obviously there are not backyard rinks, professional Hockey in Texas has spawned the building of rinks all over the metroplex. Yes, kids to play and play well. Will they continue into their HS years when football takes over? Can't answer that. Do a search of teams in the Dallas area and you will be surprised.

[LabattBlue]

A-Fuggin'-men.  I hate Gary Bettman and the rest of his cronies (YOU TOO, WAYNE!) for what they've done to the game and their refusal to make changes.

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Bettman came from the NBA and still thinks he is going to turn the NHL into god only know what? Go back to the NBA Bettman and let hockey be restored to what it once was.

[Like A Mofo]

Everyone points to places like Florida, Tampa Bay, and Carolina as being places where hockey made no sense, and to a point I agree, but the biggest issue with Carolina and Florida is their inability to SUSTAIN their success, this is where Tampa porbably wont have that problem, they have the kind of team that can excel for the next 4-5 years.

 

Look at the Dallas Stars, I wonder how their attendence would be if the Stars didnt maintain a high level of play, is Dallas any more of a hockeytown then Carolina or Florida? Even having said that, this league has expanded a little too far, but the NHL can do things to improve the game even with th extra teams:

 

1. Shorten the schedule by 6-10 games: Teams play too often now, the Washington Caps played 4 games in 5 nights at one point this season, thats nuts. With the condensed schedules, I beleive that why some nights teams just look flat, shorten the season a tad.

 

2. Get rid of the stupid instigator rule and bring back the tag-up rule.

 

3. Make the rinks wider. Players are HUGE now, the rinks are too small, will allow the great skaters to show their skills, thus creating a more exciting brand of hockey

 

4. Bring back old division names and create 2 more: Bettman was an IDIOT with this change, I love the old division names, why not add a Gretzky and Orr division or something along those lines? Thats one cosmetic feature that made the NHL unique and Bettman standarized it.

 

5. And the NHL needs a cap, especially for the fans (maybe it will keep ticket prices lower) and help my beloved Sabres

 

Ive said my peace, im sure there are more things that can change, those are just 5 Id love to see.

[KD in CA]

Do the idiots running the NHL realize that they are going to kill professional hockey in North America?

 

Hockey is already on its deathbed. Stopping the player's union is the best hope to bring it back. I agree that weak teams should be folded, but not as a result of being priced out of the game by the NY Rangers and other free spending teams.

 

The owners must do whatever is necessary to install a hard cap.

[nobody]

The reason for expansion was money. With the minuscule TV contracts the NHL gets there was really only 1 way for Bettman to pump up the value of the league: expansion fees. With new teams coming in and paying hundreds of milllions of dollars in expansion fees to the league and other owners everyone was happy. Well the league has maxed out that money vein which cuts into profits even more now.

[Bad Things]

I've been avoiding reading about this strike/lock-out because I think its a bunch of crap.

However because of my self imposed ignorance; I don't know that main ($) jist of their gripe.

Is this about salary cap issues? (or lack there of.)

[ExiledInIllinois]

A-Fuggin'-men.  I hate Gary Bettman and the rest of his cronies (YOU TOO, WAYNE!) for what they've done to the game and their refusal to make changes.

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I agree with you guys AD and Simon.

 

It does hurt towns like Buffalo.

 

Do you think that a smaller, "revitalized" NHL with Buffalo in it would bring in bigger fan draws to the arena?

[Like A Mofo]

I agree with you guys AD and Simon.

 

It does hurt towns like Buffalo.

 

Do you think that a smaller, "revitalized" NHL with Buffalo in it would bring in bigger fan draws to the arena?

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Absolutely....didnt the Sabres have like a 9 year stretch where they sold out every game in the 70's??? The fans are there.

[Tux of Borg]

Hockey will stay in Carolina as well. Believe it or not it's very popular in Raleigh. Their run a few years ago helped but people go to Carolina games regularly.

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I know... that's a misconception that people don't realize. The year they went to the Stanley Cup finals, I was in line at 6am for tickets. By 7:30am the tickets were all sold out and I was no where near the front of the line.

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

I've been avoiding reading about this strike/lock-out because I think its a bunch of crap.

However because of my self imposed ignorance; I don't know that main ($) jist of their gripe.

Is this about salary cap issues?  (or lack there of.)

44432[/snapback]

 

 

A salary cap certainly seems to be the main issue of dispute, however, there is legotomate argument as to whether this large change in the nature of the economics of the game would simply be treating the symptoms of the NHL's problems or would in fact be a treatment for the cause of the problems and thus be a long term cure.

 

From what I see looking at other sports and their place in society, the creation of a salary cap would be a big deal and create many positives for operation, however, unfortunately it will only treat some of the symptoms and basic and fatal problems would remain which in the longrun will bring down the game and even in the shortrun will not improve the prpduct which the NHL puts before its customers.

 

As was pointed out in another post in this thread, there seem to me to be some fundamental problems with how the NHL presents the current game and these problems take it away from the grea game which hockey used to be. Though the major battle is over whether there will be a cap or not and whether it will be a hard or a soft cap, the salary cap will at best influence but certainly not address a large number of issues which are key to the product:

 

1. Rinks are too small for the speed and size of the current player- There has been a perfect storm of better nutrition and training of players which has made them bigger and faster, the advent of new technologies from stick materials to size of pads, and a desire to put more seats in to be sold close to the action rather than devote it to playing space which had made the NHL into a lesser product than what I remember from my youth. Maybe its just me being human and thus resistant to any change, but the clutching and grabbing. center-ice traps, low scoring games and other issues simply strike me as a worse product. This exacerbates the problem that the puck moves to fast for the casual fan and the danger to players (which has obscured their faces with helmets when faces are part of what you sell) and even to fans (a little girl got killed by a deflected puck).

 

2. The violence issue has not been settled- Violence is part of human nature. Conflict is part of competition. In terms of the media, if it bleeds it leads is still part of selling stuff of interest to people. Nevertheless, the NHL has moved from a general balance where violencewas part of the game, but it was held in check and somewhat controlled by the agreementof all involved and through the use of enforcer players. It has happened however that the size of players, the ability to use new technology as weapons, and a market which has seen both zero tolerance and the XFL be the way things are done is conflicted on this issue. Most agree that some of the best hockey they have seen in their lifetime was the 1980 Olympics and fighting had absolutely nothing to do with this great product. Decisions need to be made about the balance the NHL will strike.

 

3. No one has forced NHL owners to overpay players and sign stupid contracts- One can go through a titanic battle over a cap and still end up with stupid decisions being made.

 

And so on.

 

In general, it looks like hockey is going down for the year. The owners generally tend to lose money when they play so they will actually be better off finacially with no action. The players now realize that they are the product and quite frankly the NHL does not exist without them. The owners are actually redundant as the best players now have so much money that financially they do not have to play. There is also a lot of competition from other sports and other hockey leagues so that up and down the ranks of player talent thought they would prefer the NHL, they can make a good living playing in the minors, in Europe or elsewhere.

 

Everyone appears to be able to survive without the NHL in terms of both the owners and the players.

 

My guess as to what will happen is that this strike will go on for awhile and a key point will happen when and if a critical mass of players goes off on their own and forms their own new league. if it has a critical mass of talent and forms a league small enough to be sustainable economically, but large enough to attract TV money, it can actually operate without the owners of the NHL.

 

This threat will either make a go of it on its own presenting a good product or will enough of a threat to force the NHL to cave.

[Alaska Darin]

I think there is more than enough support in traditional hockey markets for the NHL to blossom. It's a terrific game live that translates horribly to television (especially now that the boards look like they've been puked on by a coupon eater).

 

There are big problems that they have refused to address for as long as Bettman has been the commish.

 

1. Ticket prices. They have basically priced real hockey fans out of the arenas. Why the hell would I pay $80 or more per seat to see mediocre regular season hockey when I can watch passionate AHL or AA level hockey for less than $15?

 

2. Still entirely too much clutch and grab. Removing the red line from the game (and therefore the 2-line pass) will go a long way toward eliminating that.

 

3. Put in the tag up offsides rule. It speeds up the game exponentially with NO downside.

 

4. Get rid of the ridiculous instigator rule. You are NEVER going to make the game better by eliminating fighting and it has encouraged more of the European dirtiness in our game. It certainly hasn't brought more fans than it has cost.

 

5. Why are NONE of the new rinks built over the last 10 years Olympic configurations? 200x100 should have been the standard and it makes the game totally different. Want to eliminate the neanderthals who can't skate from the game? There's your answer. We have it in Anchorage and it makes the professional game that much better.

 

6. Shorten the schedule. I'm sick of watching the players skating on mush in the Stanley Cup playoffs because it's 98 degrees outside the Arena. Ridiculous.

 

7. Call a penalty EVERY time the goalie freezes the puck outside the crease. You know, like it's written in the rule book.

 

8. Shorten the length of TV stoppages.

 

9. Reduce goalie gear even further. It should only serve as protection. These guys are FAR too good now to get such an advantage.

[MarkyMannn]

Absolutely....didnt the Sabres have like a 9 year stretch where they sold out every game in the 70's???  The fans are there.

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Put a team like that 70's team on the ice and they would sell out again. Unfortunately, we are not even close to that talent level, and couldn't afford the payroll if we were.

 

 

Somebody mentioned the outdoor game...............I thought that was great. I'd have tickets to the Ralph if they had an outdoor game there. What an experience!!

[Like A Mofo]

Put a team like that 70's team on the ice and they would sell out again.  Unfortunately, we are not even close to that talent level, and couldn't afford the payroll if we were.

Somebody mentioned the outdoor game...............I thought that was great.  I'd have tickets to the Ralph if they had an outdoor game there.  What an experience!!

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Thats true too...but Ill say this, I think the Sabres are heading in the right direction, once they can settle their goaltending issues and decide its time to play hockey BEFORE halfway through the season, Sabres have a good young core of skaters.

 

Unfortunately, they may not be young anymore by the time this me$$ is resolved

[Simon]

YOU TOO, WAYNE!

 

Awesome!

I've always wondered if I wasn't the only one who hated Wayne for his role in the league's overexpansion and held him partly responsible for the NHL's downward spiral.

Whoring himself out to the US dolllar turned him into a major catalyst in exascerbating so many problems that this league is dealing with now. I will never forget or forgive him for it and I'm glad to know I'm not just some lonely crotchety old man snifing his own farts and mumbling about how some guy ruined the good 'ol days.

Thanx!