Pine Barrens Mafia Posted February 10, 2006 Posted February 10, 2006 Yes, there's all kinds of people running around here comparing NFL owners to the Klan and saying that owners who don't interview black candidates are like cowardly murderers and should be thrown in jail. 600075[/snapback] i think someone in the league once did compare it to a plantation. Can't remember who though.
Orton's Arm Posted February 10, 2006 Posted February 10, 2006 Yes, there's all kinds of people running around here comparing NFL owners to the Klan and saying that owners who don't interview black candidates are like cowardly murderers and should be thrown in jail.And yes, I obviously agree with all of them. Well, I sure didn't hear you complaining about this post: Okay..do me a favor. Go to the library..check out "Roots". Watch it. Slavery, lynching all that stuff. Go get the Burns documentary. Civil war, slavery, Emancipation Proclamation (tall ugly guy with a beard) Thirteenth amendment. Pull out American History II notes. Jim Crow..separate but equal Plessy v. Ferguson. Emmet Till, Voting Rights Act, Violet Liuzzo, freedom riders, Brown v. Board of Education. Segregated sports. Reflecting pool..."I have a dream"...Civil Rights Act, Duke v. Griggs Power. Having reviewed and reflected do you agree this may a be a LITTLE more complicated than the situation you posit? 599465[/snapback] How does a documentary about people being lynched provide a better understanding of why the leauge should provide more economic opportunities for filthy rich former players? You're like that really embarrasingly stupid drunk guy at the bar who keeps trying to stick his nose into a conversationw where he doesn't belong, while my buddy and I just keep rolling our eyes and laughing at your idiocy. 600075[/snapback] Listen, buddy, this is a discussion board. Everyone has the right to chime in, same as you. If you want to have a private conversation with someone, I'd suggest sending a personal message.
Simon Posted February 10, 2006 Posted February 10, 2006 Well, there is something to be said for that. I was raised a child of a second-generation immigrant and the daughter of an incredibly poor white family. I have no illusions about how exclusive America is. But this is where I and the race-baiters differ. America is not merely exclusive for blacks, but for poor whites as well. And also, I have a firm belief in upward mobility, unlike many in the black activist community. My mother had ZERO growing up, yet worked her way through College and a Master's program. She had a 35 year career as an educator and ended up with a life that could be described as very comfortable. On the surface, she looks to be a memeber of what the Democratic party would call "Wealthy", but I will guarantee you she doesn't see herself as such. 600071[/snapback] Allow me tell a true story as well. A few years ago one of my best friends and I were looking to buy our first house at the same time. My buddy had a better education than me, a more stable job than me, made more money than me, had been married longer with older kids than me, and wanted a smaller loan than me. Yet he had to go to 4 different banks before he could get his loan while I had every bank I talked to falling all over themselves to give me more money than I wanted. As I'm sure you've guessed, my buddy was black while I am white. That horseshlt goes on every day in this country( and I agree with you that in this country there is a "caste system" defined by economics, but I also see one that is defined by race), and if the NFL can avoid falling prey to even part of that inequality by instituting a relatively inoccuous rule that does nothing more than add a single candidate to the interview process, then I just don't see a problem with it. Cya
tennesseeboy Posted February 10, 2006 Posted February 10, 2006 Tell me why I should watch people being lynched to gain a better understanding of why the leauge should provide more economic opportunities for millionaire retired black NFL players. Actually Cottrell, Rhodes, Lewis and others are not "millionare retired black NFL players" Many began as asst. coaches, some as high school coaches, and some as college coaches. The discrimination in the coaching ranks of the NFL can and does deny many the opportunities whites get. See how your assumption about blacks come to the fore? I don't mean that as an insult, just how whites often stereotype blacks and put them in categories. The "old boy" network is one that empathizes with likes, and is the kind of thing that gives Dick Jauron a coaching assignment despite a losing record while black coaches with better records on merit are left in the cold.
Simon Posted February 10, 2006 Posted February 10, 2006 Listen, buddy, this is a discussion board. Everyone has the right to chime in And on that we can agrree. You have the right to act like an intrusive idiot in an open forum. But at the end of the day, you're still an idiot.
Orton's Arm Posted February 10, 2006 Posted February 10, 2006 Actually Cottrell, Rhodes, Lewis and others are not "millionare retired black NFL players" Many began as asst. coaches, some as high school coaches, and some as college coaches. The discrimination in the coaching ranks of the NFL can and does deny many the opportunities whites get. See how your assumption about blacks come to the fore? 600092[/snapback] Actually, it's not me that's making the assumption. It's the assumption behind the Rooney Rule. You see, the Rooney Rule is intended to make the coaching ranks look less like America, and more like the NFL player population. The implication being that former NFL players are being denied coaching positions due to race. But as you point out, good NFL coaches don't necessarily have professional football experience. So why should the racial composition of NFL coaches resemble that of the professional players? Why not have it resemble that of college players, or even high school players?
X. Benedict Posted February 10, 2006 Posted February 10, 2006 You are all a bunch of lovable crackers. Good honest white folk. God bless you.
Orton's Arm Posted February 10, 2006 Posted February 10, 2006 Allow me tell a true story as well.A few years ago one of my best friends and I were looking to buy our first house at the same time. My buddy had a better education than me, a more stable job than me, made more money than me, had been married longer with older kids than me, and wanted a smaller loan than me. Yet he had to go to 4 different banks before he could get his loan while I had every bank I talked to falling all over themselves to give me more money than I wanted. As I'm sure you've guessed, my buddy was black while I am white. 600091[/snapback] What you describe may be due to discrimination, or it may be due to your wife earning more than his wife, or it may be that he had a history of late or missed payments which would have impacted his credit score. Was this his first marriage? Sometimes a messy divorce can really do a number on your credit rating. Without knowing your respective credit scores, you really can't be sure this was racism.
Thailog80 Posted February 10, 2006 Posted February 10, 2006 i think someone in the league once did compare it to a plantation. Can't remember who though. 600077[/snapback] Warren Sapp
Orton's Arm Posted February 10, 2006 Posted February 10, 2006 But at the end of the day, you're still an idiot. 600096[/snapback] Let me get this straight: I'm an idiot, and JoeSixPack thinks in black and white. And you're tolerant of those who see the world differently than you. Gotcha.
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted February 10, 2006 Posted February 10, 2006 Allow me tell a true story as well.A few years ago one of my best friends and I were looking to buy our first house at the same time. My buddy had a better education than me, a more stable job than me, made more money than me, had been married longer with older kids than me, and wanted a smaller loan than me. Yet he had to go to 4 different banks before he could get his loan while I had every bank I talked to falling all over themselves to give me more money than I wanted. As I'm sure you've guessed, my buddy was black while I am white. That horseshlt goes on every day in this country( and I agree with you that in this country there is a "caste system" defined by economics, but I also see one that is defined by race), and if the NFL can avoid falling prey to even part of that inequality by instituting a relatively inoccuous rule that does nothing more than add a single candidate to the interview process, then I just don't see a problem with it. Cya 600091[/snapback] Well, That's a good anecdotal story, to be sure. Well, not good, but you know what I mean. The difference between your buddy's problem and those vying for a head-coaches job is that your buddy could actually appeal to the feds that banks were discriminating against him by race. There's no such proof that there is racism in the NFL among coaches other than a statistic about how many black coaches there are in proportion to black players. That's a stat, which, in and of itself, means nothing. And the bull sh-- that Cochran pulled with threatening a lawsuit was nothing more than blackmail IMO. he knew he'd never win such a case. The only thing a case like that would do is put a black eye on the public image of the NFL. So rather than stand up for themselves, the NFL relented to the blackmail. Pathetic. There's no law that states that if 75% of your employees are of a certain cultural background that your management should follow the same proportions.
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted February 10, 2006 Posted February 10, 2006 Warren Sapp 600116[/snapback] Ah yes. Warren Sapp. He of millions of dollars that I will never see in my lifetime. He works on a plantation. Gotcha
Ramius Posted February 10, 2006 Posted February 10, 2006 NFL=BET Network 600095[/snapback] I tihnk you meant NBA = BET network
Orton's Arm Posted February 10, 2006 Posted February 10, 2006 And the bull sh-- that Cochran pulled with threatening a lawsuit was nothing more than blackmail IMO. 600118[/snapback] Ah yes, Johnny "I used race baiting to let a murderer walk free" Cochran. Our friend.
tennesseeboy Posted February 10, 2006 Posted February 10, 2006 Actually, it's not me that's making the assumption. It's the assumption behind the Rooney Rule. You see, the Rooney Rule is intended to make the coaching ranks look less like America, and more like the NFL player population. The implication being that former NFL players are being denied coaching positions due to race. But as you point out, good NFL coaches don't necessarily have professional football experience. So why should the racial composition of NFL coaches resemble that of the professional players? Why not have it resemble that of college players, or even high school players? 600102[/snapback] I don't see it as a "resembling black player" issue as much as a workplace discrimination issue. Stereotyping and failure to allow entry has resulted in racial discrimination. I hire my not qualified buddy (oh..the name Dick Jauron or Mike Mularkey at Miami come to mind) which uses up one opportunity for a qualified black coach. The Rooney rule does not REQUIRE, as far as I know, that the minority interviews be of black former NFL players. Lovie Smith (I think) got his start as a high school coach. I do not particularly believe that the discrimination applies only to black former NFL players, but to qualified black coaches who haven't the opportunity.
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted February 10, 2006 Posted February 10, 2006 Stereotyping and failure to allow entry has resulted in racial discrimination. 600141[/snapback] Prove it.
tennesseeboy Posted February 10, 2006 Posted February 10, 2006 Prove it. 600149[/snapback] rooney rule history
Orton's Arm Posted February 10, 2006 Posted February 10, 2006 Stereotyping and failure to allow entry has resulted in racial discrimination. . . . I do not particularly believe that the discrimination applies only to black former NFL players, but to qualified black coaches who haven't the opportunity. 600141[/snapback] Let's look at numbers. The percentage of black NFL coaches is already higher than the percentage of blacks in the general population. So if we're talking about a broadly-defined applicant pool, and we're looking at numbers like that, it becomes very difficult to make a case that racial discrimination is a problem in the NFL. You mention incompetent coaches being hired, and cite Miami's hiring of Mike Mularkey as an example. What makes you so sure Mike Mularkey won't be the next Gregg Williams? Which offensive coordinator candidates should Miami have chosen instead? I don't know they had a whole lot of proven options out there, and a younger coach like Saban might want some experience on his staff.
tennesseeboy Posted February 10, 2006 Posted February 10, 2006 Let's look at numbers. The percentage of black NFL coaches is already higher than the percentage of blacks in the general population. So if we're talking about a broadly-defined applicant pool, and we're looking at numbers like that, it becomes very difficult to make a case that racial discrimination is a problem in the NFL. You mention incompetent coaches being hired, and cite Miami's hiring of Mike Mularkey as an example. What makes you so sure Mike Mularkey won't be the next Gregg Williams? Which offensive coordinator candidates should Miami have chosen instead? I don't know they had a whole lot of proven options out there, and a younger coach like Saban might want some experience on his staff. 600164[/snapback] I'm not sure Dick Jauron won't be the next Vince Lombardi. Their recent track records don't warrant confidence. I can't imagine you'd be hearing much about Herm Edwards or Tony Dungy or Marv Lewis or Lovey Smith if they had Mularkey's or Jauron's HC record. Exactly the kind of thing that resulted in the Rooney rule. The Rule has been remarkably successful.
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