Tipster19 Posted February 8, 2006 Author Posted February 8, 2006 I have to say, that's a very fair observation that you just stated The Dean. In all fairness to Losman he does deserve the opportunity to show what he can do. I just don't think Marv & Co. are as committed or secure in their opinion of him as the past administration and some of the posters are on this board. Don't be shocked or surprised if this off season/draft brings a new alternative to the table. If the faith (or lack of) seems to be against Losman, then I think we will see just how strong his mentality is. I do think that he is a competitor, I'm just not so confident about his game smarts. It's going to be a very interesting preseason.
The Dean Posted February 8, 2006 Posted February 8, 2006 Good points, but I'm wondering if Wyche was let go precisely because JP hasn't progressed as quickly as some would like - and please note that I said as some would like. After all, he sat out his rookie season due to injury, so this was really his first year, during which he was yanked twice, had a miserable head coach and OC, and didn't truly have the team behind him. I still think he showed flashes of a quality QB, but agree that he needs to earn the job. One other thing - exactly why has the search for a QB coach been so prolonged? I mean, why haven't they even interviewed anyone? They filled out most of the coaching staff fairly quickly after Jauron was named HC, but seem to be dragging their feet regarding a QB coach. Could it be that they're trying to talk Jim Kelly into taking the job, before they start interviewing anyone else? (I hope so, 'cause I think Kelly'd be perfect for the job, and just might want it.) 597965[/snapback] Many/most great jocks play beter than they teach/coach. I have that feeling about Jimbo. Nothing about him says "coach" to me. I hear he implied he wants to get involved with this team. There have to be plenty of safe PR places for him...dontcha think? He was GREAT as a cheerleader on the sidelines when he returned to the Bufftown sidelines. Let's get him back in a role like that and hire an experienced QB coach. How's it going, Sen?
The Dean Posted February 8, 2006 Posted February 8, 2006 I have to say, that's a very fair observation that you just stated The Dean. In all fairness to Losman he does deserve the opportunity to show what he can do. I just don't think Marv & Co. are as committed or secure in their opinion of him as the past administration and some of the posters are on this board. Don't be shocked or surprised if this off season/draft brings a new alternative to the table. If the faith (or lack of) seems to be against Losman, then I think we will see just how strong his mentality is. I do think that he is a competitor, I'm just not so confident about his game smarts. It's going to be a very interesting preseason. 597969[/snapback] You may be right re:Marv and Co's thoughts...nobody knows yet as they have been, rightly, mum. I'd have no problem bringing in a legit experienced QB to compete. But, the parade of possible QBS (bums, unnowns and has beens) being talked about on The Wall is just crazy-talk, IMO. If the Bills were able to make a deal for a LEGIT QB that didn't cost them and arm and a leg (in salary or trade). well...bring him on and let's take a look-see. I just don't see where that QB comes from. I also think they might draft a QB in the mid-to-later rounds...but, that is likely to have little impact on 2006.
The Senator Posted February 8, 2006 Posted February 8, 2006 Many/most great jocks play beter than they teach/coach. I have that feeling about Jimbo. Nothing about him says "coach" to me. I hear he implied he wants to get involved with this team. There have to be plenty of safe PR places for him...dontcha think? He was GREAT as a cheerleader on the sidelines when he returned to the Bufftown sidelines. Let's get him back in a role like that and hire an experienced QB coach. How's it going, Sen? 597973[/snapback] It goes well, except that winter has returned to WNY with a vengeance, after a relatively balmy January. Now...back to Jimbo - I watched his interview on FOX Sports where he did imply that he might want to be a part of this new organization - don't know if it was just talk, fodder for the press, or if he was in any way serious. But every coach has to start somewhere, and what better place for Jim than coaching 3 guys, no? From listening to his weekly radio interviews, he knows JP pretty well and they get along fine. Certainly, he knows the position, knows how to run an offense, knows how to read defenses, and works well with adolescents (good for JP). I'm tryin' to get a little gound swell goin' here, Dean. (BTW - Sabres are up 2-1 against Montreal - 10 min. left in the 3rd.)
Kelly the Dog Posted February 8, 2006 Posted February 8, 2006 You may be right re:Marv and Co's thoughts...nobody knows yet as they have been, rightly, mum. I'd have no problem bringing in a legit experienced QB to compete. But, the parade of possible QBS (bums, unnowns and has beens) being talked about on The Wall is just crazy-talk, IMO. If the Bills were able to make a deal for a LEGIT QB that didn't cost them and arm and a leg (in salary or trade). well...bring him on and let's take a look-see. I just don't see where that QB comes from. I also think they might draft a QB in the mid-to-later rounds...but, that is likely to have little impact on 2006. 597975[/snapback] Baring a serious injury I think there is zero chance that the Bills will bring in another quarterback to compete as a starter. They have two. They need a lot of other help. They have a highly talented youngster that they don't know if he is going to be any good, so they WANT him to excel. It's what everyone associated with the team wants, even the disgruntled vets. So they are going to give him a chance. And they know they have one of the better back-ups in the league. Bringing in another vet that they have no idea whether he is going to be better than Losman or not makes zero sense.
The Dean Posted February 8, 2006 Posted February 8, 2006 Baring a serious injury I think there is zero chance that the Bills will bring in another quarterback to compete as a starter. They have two. They need a lot of other help. They have a highly talented youngster that they don't know if he is going to be any good, so they WANT him to excel. It's what everyone associated with the team wants, even the disgruntled vets. So they are going to give him a chance. And they know they have one of the better back-ups in the league. Bringing in another vet that they have no idea whether he is going to be better than Losman or not makes zero sense. 597979[/snapback] I agree 100%.
The Dean Posted February 8, 2006 Posted February 8, 2006 It goes well, except that winter has returned to WNY with a vengeance, after a relatively balmy January. Now...back to Jimbo - I watched his interview on FOX Sports where he did imply that he might want to be a part of this new organization - don't know if it was just talk, fodder for the press, or if he was in any way serious. But every coach has to start somewhere, and what better place for Jim than coaching 3 guys, no? From listening to his weekly radio interviews, he knows JP pretty well and they get along fine. Certainly, he knows the position, knows how to run an offense, knows how to read defenses, and works well with adolescents (good for JP). I'm tryin' to get a little gound swell goin' here, Dean. (BTW - Sabres are up 2-1 against Montreal - 10 min. left in the 3rd.) 597977[/snapback] Sabre's win in OT...Excellent. As for Kelly, i agree if he wants to be a coach, he has to start somewhere. If i thought he was serious about coaching, I would have expected him to start somewhere a la AVP. Take a COLLEGE or high school job. Learn the ropes...put in the time. i don't for one second Jimbo has what it takes to be a committed coach in the NFL. If he really wants to be a coach he should go somewhere and learn the job and prove he can do it. If he does, I'll be there to help your ground swell. Now, AVP would be a better choice, IMO. After all, he was basically a coach on the sidelines. but, still, I'd like to see him do it for a few years, for real, at the college level.
Sisyphean Bills Posted February 8, 2006 Posted February 8, 2006 JP however, has an overall advantage because of: 1. age- Holcomb is well into the backside of his career and though he is a better player than JP he is to old to be the QB of the future. The win now doctum of the Bills will help him get the startting nod if JP shows nothing, but if JP shows much of a sign at all of developing into a quality QB this year, my guess he gets the start. 2. athleticism- JP appears to be far better athlete than Holcomb with faster wheels and a stronger arm. However, JP has not shown or developed the mental ability to play the game and make calm good decisions as Holcomb often does. JP's abilities will give him a leg-up if he gets his game under control. 3. Holcomb has never been consistent Holcomb has had a few lights out games, but never in his career has he actually produced as a QB for an entiure (or even a lot of a season). 597780[/snapback] You forgot the most important point. Holcomb sucks. Holcomb is nothing but a tease. He makes a few odd plays here and there. The team looks sort of functional. And, then before you know it, the season is over and you've finished 5-11 or 6-10.
The Dean Posted February 8, 2006 Posted February 8, 2006 You forgot the most important point. Holcomb sucks. Holcomb is nothing but a tease. He makes a few odd plays here and there. The team looks sort of functional. And, then before you know it, the season is over and you've finished 5-11 or 6-10. 598059[/snapback] That's as idiotic as a Holcomb's Arm post. He doesn't SUCK. He is what he is. A perfectly capable vetern backup. He can direct the offense to wins, but it's unlikely he'll WIN games, if you get my drift. He's better than half the back ups (and a few of the starters) in the NFL. With that said...we ain't going far with him at the helm...and that's pretty much a known.
respk Posted February 8, 2006 Posted February 8, 2006 If I'm Jauron and Levy I want to win now. They need to make the decision whether JP or Holcomb allows them to do that this year. If not, we'll see a parade of QBs go through in camp and preseason. If I was betting, JP holds a clip board for 2 more years while they find a serviceable (Kitna or Dilfer-esque) QB for 2 years. I'm guessing that Holcomb and Matthews ain't it.
The Dean Posted February 8, 2006 Posted February 8, 2006 If I'm Jauron and Levy I want to win now. They need to make the decision whether JP or Holcomb allows them to do that this year. If not, we'll see a parade of QBs go through in camp and preseason. If I was betting, JP holds a clip board for 2 more years while they find a serviceable (Kitna or Dilfer-esque) QB for 2 years. I'm guessing that Holcomb and Matthews ain't it. 598069[/snapback] When i posted earlier about the idiotic QB suggestions...this is what I was talking about. Kitna is a backup QB...PERIOD.. That's what he is...Ditto with Dilfer. If yoou have a GREAT D and an awesome running game, they'll be fine...but, why wouldn't Holcomb or JP? Neither of those guys is worth a look. We've SEEN them. JP MAY be the real freakin' deal (and while that's ALWAYS a gamble, he's shown plenty to keep the $ on him for right now). If the team was awesome, and Kitna could get us to a championship...well, why wouldn't KH or JP be able to do the same?
Sisyphean Bills Posted February 8, 2006 Posted February 8, 2006 That's as idiotic as a Holcomb's Arm post. He doesn't SUCK. He is what he is. A perfectly capable vetern backup. He can direct the offense to wins, but it's unlikely he'll WIN games, if you get my drift. He's better than half the back ups (and a few of the starters) in the NFL. With that said...we ain't going far with him at the helm...and that's pretty much a known. 598064[/snapback] A team is going exactly nowhere with Holcomb at QB. Exactly. He's not close-your-eyes awful. That's not what I meant by "suck." As I said, he's just a tease. A lot of fans will start thinking he's going to "get 'er done" only to find out that he simply never gets it done. He's too limited. It just reminds me of another sort of Bledsoe debate. People saying "just give him a chance" and "he needs more help" and on and on. A team is going exactly nowhere with Holcomb at QB. That's all you really need to know.
Tipster19 Posted February 8, 2006 Author Posted February 8, 2006 Let's face it, Holcomb was never nothing but a safety net. Donahoe refused to trade up for Big Ben but had to grab a QB in the 1st rd before all the options were gone. Bledsoe NEVER showed a total committment in Buffalo like he displayed in his 1st year in Dallas. When Bledsoe was not receptive to mentoring/backing up JP it was time for him to go. I don't know if Donahoe should of stayed with Bledsoe for another year and let JP mature a little longer on the bench but I do know that just handing the reins to Losman was a big time error. This benefitted NOBODY. Enter Holcomb. If this guy was even close to being a bonafide starter then Cleveland would of never let him go, especially when Couch was a proven bust by this time. I will say it ONE more time. We need to solidify and and add other options to this position. JP just might be the solution but this whole past year was nothing but detrimental for him. If Losman does happen to rise to the occasion, then all the more kudos for him. No stat line will ever be able to show just how much this kid would of had to have overcome. In this case, Buffalo would be fortunate to have him. I just think that these are pretty big odds to overcome. There is only one question that people should not lose sight of. For whatever reason, what if Losman doesn't succeed as a starter in Buffalo in the near future or, worst case scenario, at all?
The Dean Posted February 8, 2006 Posted February 8, 2006 A team is going exactly nowhere with Holcomb at QB. Exactly. He's not close-your-eyes awful. That's not what I meant by "suck." As I said, he's just a tease. A lot of fans will start thinking he's going to "get 'er done" only to find out that he simply never gets it done. He's too limited. It just reminds me of another sort of Bledsoe debate. People saying "just give him a chance" and "he needs more help" and on and on. A team is going exactly nowhere with Holcomb at QB. That's all you really need to know. 598091[/snapback] I don't disagree about THIS description of KH, necessarily. But, do you think Dilfer or Kitna are anything other than your description of Holcomb?
Fake-Fat Sunny Posted February 8, 2006 Posted February 8, 2006 If I'm Jauron and Levy I want to win now. They need to make the decision whether JP or Holcomb allows them to do that this year. If not, we'll see a parade of QBs go through in camp and preseason. If I was betting, JP holds a clip board for 2 more years while they find a serviceable (Kitna or Dilfer-esque) QB for 2 years. I'm guessing that Holcomb and Matthews ain't it. 598069[/snapback] The Bills will have a budget for how much of a cap hit can go to each position. They can violate it if they want but if they do it simply means there will be less cap room for another position. JP has a the big contract every first rounder is slotted to get and the bonus is prorated and this consumes the majority of the QB cap hit even if you cut him as all the bonus hit accelerates to the year he is cut. Holcomb has a cap hit for a well-paid back up but no where near a starter's hit. Matthews gets something like the vet minimum as our disaster QB and likely is gone to returement, Both Dilfer and Kitna (and most other recent starters for other( teams will command a far larger cap hit than Matthews. We almost certainly will not sign them and if we do as you suggest the other piece you need to make it a real suggestion is which position you propose to give a smaller cap hit to. I think the good news is that unlike when TD sacked Bledsoe after first stupidly extending him the QB job will not be simply given to JP, Holcomb (Kitna or whoever) by Marv and Ralph, it will be decided on the field by who plays best. That's good news because that is the way it should be (and ironically that is both what JP and Holcomb are on record saying).
Orton's Arm Posted February 8, 2006 Posted February 8, 2006 This post just goes to show you how ridiculous your stances are. If JP plays bad in pre-season, just hand it to Holcomb. What if Holcomb plays bad in pre-season? That doesn't matter? Then you just arbitrarily decide four games is your barometer. What if he plays lousy and they win all four games? Bench him for Holcomb? How about if he plays lousy for two games and then great for two games? Bench him because he's not producing? It's just foolish post after foolish post. How about watching every practice and then deciding as you go who is your best player? Like every other position. That sound like a ridiculous idea? How about watching how JP plays every game and deciding as you go along if he is good or not and then making or not making a change when the time is right? That sound like a plan? 597959[/snapback] I made the mistake of assuming the readers of my post had the ability to interpret my words with some modicum of intelligence. Sorry about the careless mistake. For those who lack this ability--or choose not to apply it--here is a "For Dummies" version of my original post: Original version: If Losman messes up in training camp and preseason, you hand the job to Holcomb. Expanded version for dummies: If Losman messes up in training camp and preseason, you hand the job to Holcomb. Unless of course Holcomb is injured, or messes up quite badly himself, or gets kidnapped by terrorists, or randomly decides to retire, or gets killed in a car accident. At that point, the QB position will probably stink for the year anyway, so you'd go with Losman on the off chance he might improve. Original version: You give Losman four games to see if he can produce. Expanded version for dummies: If Losman has four consecutive bad games, you'd go with Holcomb. If he has one good game and three bad ones, you give him through week five. If he has another bad game in week five, you go with Holcomb. If he plays well in week five, you'd give him through week seven to have another good game. For these purposes, two decent games count the same as one good one. My original point--which you apparently failed to grasp--was that it's Losman's third year, and it's about time he started giving the coaching staff a reason to believe he's the answer. Holcomb hasn't had many starts either, but he plays like a veteran because he's been around the league a while. If Losman can't get the job done in training camp or preseason, why should the Bills believe he's the answer in the regular season? The only reason I'd see would be blind hope. Of course, they say love is blind, which may go a long way to explaining your feelings about JP.
Orton's Arm Posted February 8, 2006 Posted February 8, 2006 That's as idiotic as a Holcomb's Arm post. In other words, it's ten times as intelligent as any of your posts. Not that that takes much effort.
The Dean Posted February 8, 2006 Posted February 8, 2006 In other words, it's ten times as intelligent as any of your posts. Not that that takes much effort. 598106[/snapback] Ooch. Kitty has claws!
1959BillsFan Posted February 8, 2006 Posted February 8, 2006 There are pluses and minuses to either Holcomb or Losman. Holcomb: +: Experience, intelligent, involved with change, quick reads, great short passer, players respond. -: Durability, frequently injured, not very athletic. Losman: +: Athletic, mobile, accepts responsibility, accepts blame for poor performance, does not point fingers, intelligent, willing to work and prepare. -: Inexperienced, possible loss of confidence, cannot get "veterans" to play for him, holds onto the ball too long, looses focus, does not diagnose defense well, doesn't check down too well, jittery i.e. happy feet, becomes too comfortable. Both: The biggest point for these two is definitely a positive, they want what is best for the TEAM. The WANT competation in the position to bring out the best in them. They are willing to accept what the coaches decide and will support those decisions. I do see the Bills drafting a QB in the 3rd or 4th. This would be about right to develop another young QB. I this this as a definite in that, this newly drafted QB will provide competation for the length of his contract. Losman and Holcomb will need additional competation for the length of their contracts. Both and Holcomb are contracted until 2008. That is only another 2 seasons. My biggest worry is with the QB coach. Fairchild almost looks like he will want to have the duel responsibility as QB coach. If that happens, Fairchild will be too busy to properly coach the QBs; although, that would leave one coach out of the chain in developing the most important position in football. In other words, there will be no misinterreptation in the system being run. mularkey's biggest problem was his inability to communicate to his coaches and getting the coaches to work together; thus, how could anyone expect the players to actually work together??? We shall see how things work out. I just want the club to play like a TEAM. That starts with the front office all the way down; thru the scouts and coaches and finally to the players. Under the previous regime, that didn't happen.
stinky finger Posted February 8, 2006 Posted February 8, 2006 i believe there will be an open competition from the first day of spring session mini-camps. JP can't possibly be feeling any level of comfort that the job is his to lose. 597707[/snapback] I agree. I also think think there is another QB out there (no, not the draft...relax) that will push JP for playing time. Someone more seasoned and with better upside than Holcombs Arm....err KH.
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