RW sends notes during games

[PromoTheRobot]

Do any of you have an elderly relative who is a pain in the rear? Most of the time, they just want to feel like somebody still pays attention to them.

 

That's going to be Marv's biggest benifit to the Bills. If Ralph really is a pain, Marv is probably the one guy who can tell him to knock it off...in a nice way.

 

PTR

[IndyMark]

Ahhhhhhh, who am I kidding?  These are the same people that made shows like Fear Factor and Survivor hits.

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Honestly, your point is muddy. First, I have (at most) watched 12 minutes cumulatively of the shows you cite. Your point?

 

Second, let me be more clear.....if RW wanted to pay me close to 1 million dollars a year to coach his team in the NFL and I accepted and he called my office after every decision I made (especially if it were a particularly stupid decision) I would absolutely placate him. Why? Respect. He pays the bills (no pun) and it is HIS company. How you try to spin that as a "money-whore" position is slighly bizarre and actually is a big stretch in reasoning.

 

Normally you make sense, this thread...not so much.

[IndyMark]

I'm guessing that the people who throw out this $1 million/yr reference have never had a job that paid $1 million. 

 

Frankly, among the few people that I know, who earn in that range, they would be out the door much quicker than me.  What you're ignoring is if that person has the skill that commands a $1 million salary, there are other mployers who will gladly pay him that salary, with a much better work environment thrown in.

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Yeah, because I do not know anyone who makes that kind of money. Apparently, you do and that is impressive

 

I "threw" 1 mill out there as an assumption that MM got paid that or CLOSE to it. But I speculate.

 

Yes, I ignored the fact that if you get paid 1 million / yr you are in demand - the example of the thread (MM) proves your point . Yep, he was certainly scooped right up as a HC wasn't he?

 

I appreciate your attempt at being savvy about this, I really do....but it just didn't fly.

[Alaska Darin]

Honestly, your point is muddy.  First, I have (at most) watched 12 minutes cumulatively of the shows you cite.  Your point?

 

Second, let me be more clear.....if RW wanted to pay me close to 1 million dollars a year to coach his team in the NFL and I accepted and he called my office after every decision I made (especially if it were a particularly stupid decision) I would absolutely placate him.  Why?  Respect.  He pays the bills (no pun) and it is HIS company.  How you try to spin that as a "money-whore" position is slighly bizarre and actually is a big stretch in reasoning.

 

Normally you make sense, this thread...not so much.

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You're the one who made the money reference. If money wasn't an issue then you shouldn't have used it that way. I'll also say that if you're that willing to placate your boss then there's little likelihood of you ever getting such a job because appeasers are rarely effective leaders.

 

At the end of the day, if I'm hired to do a job then I need to be allowed to do it. Effective leadership is not hiring someone for a really important job and then standing over their shoulder and trying to do it with them. It's a recipe for disaster and I'm not the least bit surprised that that's exactly what the BILLS have been for far too much of Ralph's time at the top.

 

Don't take my vitriol personally - it's not meant for you.

[scorp15]

After you see Butler use a First Round pick on Eric Flowers, I think it was agood idea to keep an eye on what he was doing

[Lurker]

At the end of the day, if I'm hired to do a job then I need to be allowed to do it.  Effective leadership is not hiring someone for a really important job and then standing over their shoulder and trying to do it with them.  It's a recipe for disaster and I'm not the least bit surprised that that's exactly what the BILLS have been for far too much of Ralph's time at the top.

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This thread's a hoot. It reminds me of the campfire circle stories that get more and more fantastic with each retelling.

 

What started out as RW passing notes has now become pervasive micro-management. What's next, Ralph personally washing the players' backs in the shower room? Picking out GW's bra size? Not buying Wade a headset?

[sfladave]

Yeah, because I do not know anyone who makes that kind of money.  Apparently, you do and that is impressive

 

I "threw" 1 mill out there as an assumption that MM got paid that or CLOSE to it.  But I speculate. 

 

Yes, I ignored the fact that if you get paid 1 million / yr you are in demand - the example of the thread (MM) proves your point .  Yep, he was certainly scooped right up as a HC wasn't he?

 

I appreciate your attempt at being savvy about this, I really do....but it just didn't fly.

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There is a VERY good chance that as the OC of the fish he is making as much if not more than he made as the HC of the Bills ($1.1M). Greg Williams also made more money his 1st year with the Redskins as their DC than he made as HC of the Bills.

 

If Mularkey felt as though he would be in an uncomfortable situation in Buffalo he may have decided the grass was greener on the other side. He may have even taken a pay cut from the $1.1 million he was due to receive here to look for a more comfortable work environment.

[Peter]

Actually I'm a retired chef doing financial planning. And oh by the way I'm a Partner with my firm and if any of my reps told me that if I left them alone they would be able to make more money (for me and them) I'd agree and monitor the progress to see if they improved.   It's all how you say it.  Telling them to f*ck off may have not been the best way....but that's just me.  

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I am a partner in my firm as well. Everyone has someone to answer to -- whether it is the most senior partner or, even more so, clients.

 

I have no problem with an owner of a $500 plus million business asking the people running the business (and doing a poor job at that) demanding answers to questions about what is going on. I would have been disappointed if questions were not being asked of them.

 

All of this sounds like sour grapes on the part of MM and TD.

 

As an aside, I do not know if you are a Curb Your Enthusiasm fan, but I am reminded of a story about Larry David when he was a writer for SNL. Apparently, the writers compete with each other about whose skits will be on each week. Lorne Michaels makes the final call.

 

After several weeks of not having any of his skits appear on SNL, Lorne Michaels informed Larry David just before air time that none of his skits would appear on that night's show. Larry was so pissed that he quit on the spot. As he was walking home from Rockefeller Plaza in the cold in the middle of winter, he began to have second thoughts as he realized that he would not have any money to pay for his rent etc.

 

The next day, he told a friend what happened. His friend told him to show up for work on Monday as if nothing happened. Taking his friend's advice, he showed up to the Monday morning writer's meeting. Everyone looked at him wondering what he was doing there. Larry just acted like nothing had happened and that he had not quit his job. He ended up not losing his job.

 

He actually used this as inspiration for an episode of Seinfeld when George quit his job and later regretted it and showed up for work the following day.

 

I guess the moral of the story is, if you tell your boss off, act as though you were joking.

[Lurker]

There is a VERY good chance that as the OC of the fish he is making as much if not more than he made as the HC of the Bills ($1.1M).

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$800,000 and no state personal income tax. It's a wash.

[Chef Jim]

I am a partner in my firm as well.  Everyone has someone to answer to -- whether it is the most senior partner or, even more so, clients.

 

I have no problem with an owner of a $500 plus million business asking the people running the business (and doing a poor job at that) demanding answers to questions about what is going on.  I would have been disappointed if questions were not being asked of them.

 

All of this sounds like sour grapes on the part of MM and TD. 

 

As an aside, I do not know if you are a Curb Your Enthusiasm fan, but I am reminded of a story about Larry David when he was a writer for SNL.  Apparently, the writers compete with each other about whose skits will be on each week.  Lorne Michaels makes the final call. 

 

After several weeks of not having any of his skits appear on SNL, Lorne Michaels informed Larry David just before air time that none of his skits would appear on that night's show.  Larry was so pissed that he quit on the spot.  As he was walking home from Rockefeller Plaza in the cold in the middle of winter, he began to have second thoughts as he realized that he would not have any money to pay for his rent etc.

 

The next day, he told a friend what happened.  His friend told him to show up for work on Monday as if nothing happened.  Taking his friend's advice, he showed up to the Monday morning writer's meeting.  Everyone looked at him wondering what he was doing there.  Larry just acted like nothing had happened and that he had not quit his job. He ended up not losing his job.

 

He actually used this as inspiration for an episode of Seinfeld when George quit his job and later regretted it and showed up for work the following day.

 

I guess the moral of the story is, if you tell your boss off, act as though you were joking.

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Larry David = George Castanza

[Peter]

Larry David = George Castanza

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Pretty much.

[GG]

Don't take my vitriol personally - it's not meant for you.

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That's too bad, because mine is (meant for Indy Mark).

 

Don't introduce the $1 million salary as an example, then cower when your argument is blown to smithereens.

[IndyMark]

That's too bad, because mine is (meant for Indy Mark). 

 

Don't introduce the $1 million salary as an example, then cower when your argument is blown to smithereens.

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No cower here friend. My argument is still pretty strong as is your based on the equivocal supporting threads.

 

No need to get your panties in a wad and sound tough behind a keyboard.

 

Seriously relax.

[GG]

I am a partner in my firm as well.  Everyone has someone to answer to -- whether it is the most senior partner or, even more so, clients.

 

I have no problem with an owner of a $500 plus million business asking the people running the business (and doing a poor job at that) demanding answers to questions about what is going on.  I would have been disappointed if questions were not being asked of them.

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But this is not the story that's being reported.

 

How would you, or your partners feel when in the middle of every case that you are working on, the lead partner's secretary would walk in with a note from the big cheese, asking you to give an immediate debriefing on the case and suggest ways to work the case (when you know he hasn't even opened the files)? Tell me you would put up with that, or at least wouldn't resent it. Tell me that your work performance wouldn't be affected.

[GG]

No cower here friend.  My argument is still pretty strong as is your based on the equivocal supporting threads.

 

No need to get your panties in a wad and sound tough behind a keyboard.

 

Seriously relax.

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Really, how is your argument supported just because of a dream that you would play Paris Hilton if Ralph Wilson paid you $1 million for a special talent?

 

My mention of knowing people who make $1 million is not to impress, but to provide perspective that people who make that kind of money have a lot less tolerance for crap, and they can usually walk away from the crap.

 

There was a similar discussion earlier, when someone said that they couldn't believe that Mularkey would walk away from a big paycheck, as if he was the fry cook. The rub is that the guy who makes $1 million has infinitely more options than the fry cook, who usually has no choice but to be a fry cook, and probably can't jeopardize that job.

 

The problem for you is when you don't make nearly the money these guys make, it's hard for you to put yourself in the situation of someone who does. So to say that if Ralph pays someone $1 million, they should put up with his idiosyncracies, is missing the point that after a while, the crap wears on you and the money becomes a secondary issue.

[Chef Jim]

Really, how is your argument supported just because of a dream that you would play Paris Hilton if Ralph Wilson paid you $1 million for a special talent?

 

My mention of knowing people who make $1 million is not to impress, but to provide perspective that people who make that kind of money have a lot less tolerance for crap, and they can usually walk away from the crap. 

 

There was a similar discussion earlier, when someone said that they couldn't believe that Mularkey would walk away from a big paycheck, as if he was the fry cook.  The rub is that the guy who makes $1 million has infinitely more options than the fry cook, who usually has no choice but to be a fry cook, and probably can't jeopardize that job. 

 

The problem for you is when you don't make nearly the money these guys make, it's hard for you to put yourself in the situation of someone who does.  So to say that if Ralph pays someone $1 million, they should put up with his idiosyncracies, is missing the point that after a while, the crap wears on you and the money becomes a secondary issue.

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Hey, when I was a fry cook I had plenty of options. Do I drop the fish in head first or tail first..........

[IDBillzFan]

Really, how is your argument supported just because of a dream that you would play Paris Hilton if Ralph Wilson paid you $1 million for a special talent?

 

My mention of knowing people who make $1 million is not to impress, but to provide perspective that people who make that kind of money have a lot less tolerance for crap, and they can usually walk away from the crap. 

 

There was a similar discussion earlier, when someone said that they couldn't believe that Mularkey would walk away from a big paycheck, as if he was the fry cook.  The rub is that the guy who makes $1 million has infinitely more options than the fry cook, who usually has no choice but to be a fry cook, and probably can't jeopardize that job. 

 

The problem for you is when you don't make nearly the money these guys make, it's hard for you to put yourself in the situation of someone who does.  So to say that if Ralph pays someone $1 million, they should put up with his idiosyncracies, is missing the point that after a while, the crap wears on you and the money becomes a secondary issue.

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You make some really valid points here, and I would add that I worked for a dude who one time walked into a boardroom where I was giving a sales presentation to potential customers because he had a problem with the new catalogue and wanted to change a spec and reprint and bind the entire 30-page document by the end of the day.

 

You don't take that schitt. Not even for a million bucks.

 

People have their boiling point, and if you have a boss who is slipping you notes during the game...or interrupting you in a sales presentation...you need to ask yourself three questions:

 

Can you change the situation?

If not, can you LIVE with the situation?

If not, then....????????(shrug shoulders here)

[sfladave]

Perhaps the notes didn't originate from Ralph at all. Maybe it was TD sending them with Ralph's name on it.

 

eg. "Chief of security, it is inappropriate to have signs in the stadium calling for Tom Donahoe's lynching, kick those idiot fans out."

[Acantha]

But this is not the story that's being reported. 

 

How would you, or your partners feel when in the middle of every case that you are working on, the lead partner's secretary would walk in with a note from the big cheese, asking you to give an immediate debriefing on the case and suggest ways to work the case (when you know he hasn't even opened the files)?  Tell me you would put up with that, or at least wouldn't resent it.  Tell me that your work performance wouldn't be affected.

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The problem I have withy your whole argument is that Mularkey SUCKED!!! HE WAS A MORON! And he only proved it more when he took the play calling from Clements and things stayed the same!!!

 

If someone is performing horribly at their job, then yes they can expect the boss to be hounding their ass on a regular basis. If Mularkey had shown any example of being a competant HC, then you could perhaps say that Ralph was being too obtrusive (and I will say again that just becuase some media dolts report it, doesn't for a second mean it's true!!!!!).

[Kultarr]

Really, how is your argument supported just because of a dream that you would play Paris Hilton if Ralph Wilson paid you $1 million for a special talent?

 

My mention of knowing people who make $1 million is not to impress, but to provide perspective that people who make that kind of money have a lot less tolerance for crap, and they can usually walk away from the crap. 

 

There was a similar discussion earlier, when someone said that they couldn't believe that Mularkey would walk away from a big paycheck, as if he was the fry cook.  The rub is that the guy who makes $1 million has infinitely more options than the fry cook, who usually has no choice but to be a fry cook, and probably can't jeopardize that job.  

 

The problem for you is when you don't make nearly the money these guys make, it's hard for you to put yourself in the situation of someone who does.  So to say that if Ralph pays someone $1 million, they should put up with his idiosyncracies, is missing the point that after a while, the crap wears on you and the money becomes a secondary issue.

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I think you are looking down on the little guy here a tad, GG. Leaving a bad job is what it is and people in all lines of work do it every day. Fry cooks, Wall St. execs, and every sort of job in between. There is little to be drawn from this other than people are not always happy with their jobs.

 

"Infinitely more options?" There aren't infinitely many $1 million salary jobs out there, of that I am quite sure. Now in Corporate America there are more than 32 teams, and for someone to reach this level, they've obviously proven themselves a very capable person in their field. And, it's also almost certainly the case that the person we're talking about has changed jobs many times in the past. But again, this is all really just tangential generalities.

 

My questions about the situation under discussion are:

 

- What is the truth about Wilson's handling of his team? Is he really meddlesome? Or is there more going on there? [For instance, I've seen high level managers when they feel they've gotten a whiff of incompetence in action before. They can become rather "aggitated". The downwards pressure they apply is not merely pointless -- either the target(s) get their sh-- wired down tighter or they crack.]

 

- Donahoe was fired, right? He didn't quit to protest "note passing". He used to speak publicly about "Mr. Wilson" and his great respect for the owner, no? Can we really say there was a voluntary mass exodus because nobody could work for Wilson in this case? Or was it Levy's doing as others have asserted?

 

- Donahoe has been accused of micromanaging by many. Was he? Was his micromanagement for 2 years more tolerable than Wilson's for 1 week to MM? I wonder what the difference was. Or maybe it is that Levy is the micromanager. It's getting confusing.

 

- How proven is Mike Mularkey really? He was a darkhorse choice as head coach here. Rumors are he was on the verge of being replaced in Pittsburgh. His offense bombed spectacularly in Buffalo. It's fine if he has all the confidence in the world in himself, but I mean this from the other side of the fence -- why would I hire this guy as my HC with his record if I was an owner? To his credit, Ralph seemed to think highly of him, and I'm not convinced it was 100% economic. Maybe MM is a better coach than he appeared to be and there were other problems. Who knows? To be a fly on the wall of that meeting between RW and MM...

 

- Mularkey is a Florida guy. He returned to Florida and his "family" was given as a consideration. Never underestimate the psychological impact of family stress. In other words, it may have had a lot less to do with "note passing" and the owner being this "meddlesome retard" character and a lot more to do with a very unhappy family situation. Are we totally confident nothing like this was a factor?

 

---

 

To summarize this a bit. In the 99-00 time period, the Buffalo Bills were held out there by the media as an example of an excellent, first-class, top-flight organization. Now, in 05-06, the Buffalo Bills are derided by the same media as "one of the worst run franchises I've ever seen" and a disaster, a mess, a shambles. The incongruity of these reports couldn't be more stark. It begs the question, what the &^%$ happened?

 

Back then the front office (Pres., GM, etc.) was composed of Wilson, Butler, Smith, and Phillips. Last year, these positions were held by Donahoe, Donahoe, Modrak, and Mularkey. The transition from the Donahoe regime was going to be to Wilson, Levy, Modrak, and Mularkey. Obviously changes at the top were made and with Mularkey quitting, we end up with Wilson, Levy, Modrak, and Jauron in Buffalo. But still, why did the Bills go from being a model franchise to being the so-called most dysfunctional franchise in all of sports?

 

Just an opinion: I suspect that Rooney knew what he was doing back then and he fired the right guy. Speaking of stark contrasts, the Steelers with their 2nd year QB and the Bills with their 2nd year QB couldn't be more contrasting than black from white at present. Cowher "let" Mularkey go but deftly kept Whisenhunt from leaving too. Just some things that make me go, "Hmm."