Are NFL games fixed?

[Oneonta Buffalo Fan]

I say no, because if they were not many people would watch football.

[daquixers_is_back]

Ok. Thanks.

[ExiledInIllinois]

I don't think they are "fixed"... But, I do think that the NFL can "push" outcomes... Maybe not intentionally but, it is there.

 

There are just too many rules, policies, and other situational tools and attitudes that lead me to believe this.

 

I watch... To see "what" it becomes... It is "our" society, like it or not... Without getting philosophical.

[ChasBB]

I say no, because if they were not many people would watch football.

596008[/snapback]

I didn't use to think so, but not so sure any longer. A terrible call here & there -- maybe one such call in a big game -- makes it difficult to make such an accusation. However, the past few years where you'll see a series of terrible calls in a single game go against the same team makes me wonder. I trust Pete Rozelle more than I do Tagliabue to run an honest league.

[Mikie2times]

I don't think they are "fixed"... But, I do think that the NFL can "push" outcomes... Maybe not intentionally but, it is there.

 

There are just too many rules, policies, and other situational tools and attitudes that lead me to believe this.

 

I watch... To see "what" it becomes... It is "our" society, like it or not... Without getting philosophical.

596015[/snapback]

 

I agree. Think about how much the NFL can influence a game by instructing the officials to call it a certain way. Each team relies on certain aspects and schemes and by being stricter in areas could handcuff teams. Then you have times like today when the sheer amount of bad calls favor one side so much that you’re left scratching your head. NFL officiating is a mess, and if I wasn't such a die hard Bills fan I would have no problem getting my football fix from college. IMO college football is a much more entertaining and natural display of football then the NFL by a long shot.

[ExiledInIllinois]

I agree. Think about how much the NFL can influence a game by instructing the officials to call it a certain way. Each team relies on certain aspects and schemes and by being stricter in areas could handcuff teams. Then you have times like today when the sheer amount of bad calls favor one side so much that you’re left scratching your head.  NFL officiating is a mess, and if I wasn't such a die hard Bills fan I would have no problem getting my football fix from college. IMO college football is a much more entertaining and natural display of football then the NFL by a long shot.

596029[/snapback]

 

Exactly.

 

They (NFL) don't even have to positively say things to the controlling influences of the game (ie: refs)... They can tacitly "push" the outcome and not even know it.

 

It is the "perfect scam" of all. Let the system and societal machine feed the beast.

 

The NFL is the number one sport, do you think they will correct it?... They can get away with anything they want.

 

And again, you know what, the individual pieces don't see it!

[ChasBB]

In defense of the officials, they have an extremely difficult job. The rule book must be 12 inches thick by now. I have no specific suggestions, but it seems like some type of rules simplification is in order.

[ExiledInIllinois]

In defense of the officials, they have an extremely difficult job.  The rule book must be 12 inches thick by now.  I have no specific suggestions, but it seems like some type of rules simplification is in order.

596034[/snapback]

 

Just let a computer analyze the game and rule it.

 

 

Only kidding. Simplification should be in order.

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

Exactly.

 

They (NFL) don't even have to positively say things to the controlling influences of the game (ie: refs)... They can tacitly "push" the outcome and not even know it.

 

It is the "perfect scam" of all.  Let the system and societal machine feed the beast.

 

The NFL is the number one sport, do you think they will correct it?... They can get away with anything they want.

 

And again, you know what, the individual pieces don't see it!

596033[/snapback]

 

I disagree as I once made the claim to a friend that the NFL games are foxed.

 

She replied, she did not think so because she asked if they were fixed (or even influenced) then why weren't they more interesting?

 

I really had no argument for this because even a chimp or a jackass would produce a far more interesting and entertaining conduit for commercials than this game.

 

Seriously, if the NFL was truly so slick and Machiavellian that they could pull of the secrecy needed to fix the game or even influence it they should be able to do better than produce such ham handed idiocy as some of the refs calls in this game.

 

What script do you suggest they were following?

 

There were certainly players who did not perform in this game that could have seriously used some strategic help like Bettis or RoboQB if the refs were truly trying to produce a specific team or player outcome.

 

 

The best argument that this game was not fixed is that it would have been far better if it was.

[Dante]

I guess the refs just had a bad day. I hope thats the case. Otherwise there was somthign definitely wrong with the game today. Steelers had no right to win that game the way they did

[ExiledInIllinois]

I disagree as I once made the claim to a friend that the NFL games are foxed.

 

She replied, she did not think so because she asked if they were fixed (or even influenced) then why weren't they more interesting?

 

I really had no argument for this because even a chimp or a jackass would produce a far more interesting and entertaining conduit for commercials than this game.

 

Seriously, if the NFL was truly so slick and Machiavellian that they could pull of the secrecy needed to fix the game or even influence it they should be able to do better than produce such ham handed idiocy as some of the refs calls in this game.

 

What script do you suggest they were following?

 

There were certainly players who did not perform in this game that could have seriously used some strategic help like Bettis or RoboQB if the refs were truly trying to produce a specific team or player outcome.

The best argument that this game was not fixed is that it would have been far better if it was.

596037[/snapback]

 

I agree FFS but, I tastefully disagree.

 

They aren't following any script... That is the beauty of it.

 

A "push" isn't a pure fix. If the "push" doesn't work, fine... Never being too greedy. There isn't "one" single mechanism driving it. You are trying to put order in disorder... Let disorder rule. THERE IS NO LOGIC TO IT.

 

I don't recall the 1919 WS as being "too entertaining" but, it was fixed... And no, I didn't see it... It is what history has told.

[ExiledInIllinois]

I guess the refs just had a bad day. I hope thats the case. Otherwise there was somthign definitely wrong with the game today. Steelers had no right to win that game the way they did

596039[/snapback]

 

Exactly!

 

Humans will stick to their guns at times and make matters worse. Look at Don Denkinger in the '85 WS... He went to bed thinking that he made the right call... Even probably influenced the calls behing the plate the following game???

 

It is almost like this crew was on that path... In the back of their minds knowing that they may have screwed up and pushing their calls in other directions (the inexcuseable Matt Hasselbeck "personal foul" call).

 

Humans will defend their actions to the bitter end sometimes... and most likely erroneously. The human system is broken in the NFL.

[Mikie2times]

I disagree as I once made the claim to a friend that the NFL games are foxed.

 

She replied, she did not think so because she asked if they were fixed (or even influenced) then why weren't they more interesting?

 

I really had no argument for this because even a chimp or a jackass would produce a far more interesting and entertaining conduit for commercials than this game.

 

Seriously, if the NFL was truly so slick and Machiavellian that they could pull of the secrecy needed to fix the game or even influence it they should be able to do better than produce such ham handed idiocy as some of the refs calls in this game.

 

What script do you suggest they were following?

 

There were certainly players who did not perform in this game that could have seriously used some strategic help like Bettis or RoboQB if the refs were truly trying to produce a specific team or player outcome.

The best argument that this game was not fixed is that it would have been far better if it was.

596037[/snapback]

 

Basically all we can do Is speculate on what’s going on because I doubt Tags is going to announce they fix games anytime soon. My school of thought is this.

 

Think back to the Patriots/Colts playoff game in Foxboro a couple years back. To every lucid observer the Colts WR's and TE's were getting mugged all game. This severely hampered Indianapolis and its vaunted passing offense. It doesn't take a conspiracy theorist to rationalize a loose called game on the DB's would really benefit NE. Today we saw Seattle get called for crucial penalties right as they were hovering around the red zone. Perhaps the NFL pushed the refs into calling holding on Seattle in those situations. That would not only push them out of scoring range but also put them in blitzing situations.

 

Both those games were examples of games in which the referees seemed to play an outcome in the final score, but at the same time the game was still competitive. This is the best result, because it is the one that is also the least obvious to the general fan base. The extreme logic of some kind of script is not true, and that’s not what I’m suggesting, the Colts and Seattle could have both won. But when faced against an already elite team in a difficult situation, the timing of calls can really turn games. If these teams could overcame the calls they can win, but in the end that proves very difficult.

 

Pittsburgh wore the glass slipper this year just like New England did in the past. Both were great teams, but both also benefited from a lot of officiating disparities along the way. It's not that crazy of a theory that some of this might be going on, after all NE and PITT are better to the growth of the league as champions then CAR and SEA.

[ExiledInIllinois]

Basically all we can do Is speculate on what’s going on because I doubt Tags is going to announce they fix games anytime soon.  My school of thought is this.

 

Think back to the Patriots/Colts playoff game in Foxboro a couple years back. To every lucid observer the Colts WR's and TE's were getting mugged all game. This severely hampered Indianapolis and its vaunted passing offense. It doesn't take a conspiracy theorist to rationalize a loose called game on the DB's would really benefit NE.  Today we saw Seattle get called for crucial penalties right as they were hovering around the red zone. Perhaps the NFL pushed the refs into calling holding on Seattle in those situations. That would not only push them out of scoring range but also put them in blitzing situations.

 

Both those games were examples of games in which the referees seemed to play an outcome in the final score, but at the same time the game was still competitive.  This is the best result, because it is the one that is also the least obvious to the general fan base. The extreme logic of some kind of script is not true, and that’s not what I’m suggesting, the Colts and Seattle could have both won. But when faced against an already elite team in a difficult situation, the timing of calls can really turn games.  If these teams could overcame the calls they can win, but in the end that proves very difficult. 

 

Pittsburgh wore the glass slipper this year just like New England did in the past.  Both were great teams, but both also benefited from a lot of officiating disparities along the way. I don't think you need to be a conspiracy theorist to think some of this might be going on, after all NE and PITT are better to the growth of the league as champions then CAR and SEA.

596054[/snapback]

 

Agree.

 

What did the league do after the NE mugging of the Colts... Start changing the rules! What happened after "No Goal?" Same thing but, the NHL did it the other way around by discrediting the existing rule. Either way you look at it, it has the same effect.

 

You change gears and muddy the waters by changing the rules.

 

It isn't a conspiracy as much as it is a cover-up when something reflects badly when a "desireable" outcome is achieved. The wheels of the machine get set into motion, rules changed, PR fired up and all is fine.

[shibuya]

I hope the NFL takes on endless crticism from this. That was a very one sided games from the officiating point of view

[Oneonta Buffalo Fan]

I hope the NFL takes on endless crticism from this. That was a very one sided games from the officiating point of view

596071[/snapback]

 

I don't know. I mean there were bad calls on both sides. It wasn't really one sided. Yes, we all know that the Seattle player had a touchdown and there was no push off. But the reason why seattle lost is that they had poor clock management at the end of the 2nd half and at the end of the game.

[obie_wan]

I don't know.  I mean there were bad calls on both sides.  It wasn't really one sided. Yes, we all know that the Seattle player had a touchdown and there was no  push off.  But the reason why seattle lost is that they had poor clock management at the end of the 2nd half and at the end of the game.

596117[/snapback]

 

if they had the 2 TDs that were taken away by bad calls and Pitts did not have thhe gift Big Ben TD, then time mgmt would not have mattered.

 

 

If they're going to fix games, they should be a little less obvious.

[Bill from NYC]

Well, fixed by whom?

 

The "Mafia" as we know it has been all but destroyed. Half of what is left of them are government informants; the rest are dimwits. IN parts of NY, they are getting pushed around by Albanian gangs. Were it not for the publicity attached to locking up small time hoods with Italian names, we would rarely hear about these guys.

 

Do you think that the networks are fixing the games? This would involve someone actually telling the refs to toss improper flags and players not to do their best.

While I don't rule out the possibility, it seems to me that someone would have come forward by now.....a ref, player. corporate guy, etc.

 

As for this game, I remind you that Paul Allen owns the Seahawks, and he is more powerful than all of the "Mafia" combined in this day and age.

 

Despite the above, the play that disturbed me the most in all of my years as a fan was the "just give it to him game." That was a whole lot worse than anything last night imo. The only thing comparable was the flag on Hasselback on the tackle.

[Dwight Drane]

Well, fixed by whom?

 

The "Mafia" as we know it has been all but destroyed. Half of what is left of them are government informants; the rest are dimwits. IN parts of NY, they are getting pushed around by Albanian gangs. Were it not for the publicity attached to locking up small time hoods with Italian names, we would rarely hear about these guys.

 

Do you think that the networks are fixing the games? This would involve someone actually telling the refs to toss improper flags and players not to do their best.

While I don't rule out the possibility, it seems to me that someone would have come forward by now.....a ref, player. corporate guy, etc.

 

As for this game, I remind you that Paul Allen owns the Seahawks, and he is more powerful than all of the "Mafia" combined in this day and age.

 

Despite the above, the play that disturbed me the most in all of my years as a fan was the "just give it to him game." That was a whole lot worse than anything last night imo. The only thing comparable was the flag on Hasselback on the tackle.

596144[/snapback]

 

If Bill Levy's wife drives up to dinner next Friday in a brand new Pink Caddy and wearing a fur, then there might be a problem.

 

The NFL is too big now to have a major influence from the outside. Back in the day, without big TV, huge salaries, and when the game was just a game, guys could be gotten to, and some big names at that. To fix a game like this now with the technology and communication we have is next to impossible.

 

If you want to find a fix, look at Mid-major basketball for a guy shooting 2-20 with 8 turnovers

[Fezmid]

I don't know.  I mean there were bad calls on both sides.

Can you give me a couple of examples of bad calls that went against Pittsburgh? Seriously, I can't remember a single one...

 

They had three penalties for 20 yards, and two of them were false starts on the first drive...

 

CW