Spiderweb Posted February 3, 2006 Posted February 3, 2006 If John Lynch could play successfully in the cover 2 at his age before going to Denver, then Milloy probably would be ok too. Like Kelly said, I didn't see Milloy getting beat multiple times last season at all in the passing game, it was more that he couldn't provided his usual run support. 593342[/snapback] Good point (Lynch). As the Bills run defense was bad this year, Milloy was used more in run support so his cover skills usually were lost (good or bad) with him up near or at the line of scrimmage.
Campy Posted February 3, 2006 Posted February 3, 2006 What I saw out of Milloy was not making the plays he normally made around the LOS. Letting running backs through his arms two yards into the defensive backfield which turned into huge gainers that he used to stuff. Dragging running backs and wearing them down seven yards downfield instead of dropping them at the point of contact. 593295[/snapback] Injury may have had something to do with that IMO.
Kelly the Dog Posted February 3, 2006 Author Posted February 3, 2006 Once again, from the top: Starter Kim Herring misses the entire season. Kaesviharn starts in game #1 and plays 16 games. Williams checks out in game #4. Lewis tries to find a player out there who he thinks is the best available. Ohalete is signed. Ohalete stinks. Lewis contemplates suicide, but is talked out of it. 593380[/snapback] Once again, from the top, you started this all, bringing the Bengals in, claiming that Lewis liked two FS types, smaller safeties because presumably they can cover. Kim Herring is the same height as Milloy but 22 pounds heavier. Virtually every safety on the Bengals is bigger than Milloy, free or strong. When the bigger than Milloy safeties went down, the Bengals went out and got an even bigger one than all the others and he started the rest of the season.
Kelly the Dog Posted February 3, 2006 Author Posted February 3, 2006 Injury may have had something to do with that IMO. 593384[/snapback] Did you read the thread? That was my first point, that his injury caused this.
apuszczalowski Posted February 3, 2006 Posted February 3, 2006 End of Vincent too probably. Trade down out of the number 8 spot and stock pile 3rds and 4ths. There are many more holes than people think especially on defense. 593307[/snapback] There are many holes and yet you all want to make more by cutting and releasing players that may still be effective so we can bring in a rookie to take their spot? If you want someone form the draft to take the spot, you better have a good veteran in place for the rookie to learn under instead of throwing the rookie to the wolves. I say keep Milloy for atleast this season and see what he can still do. Milloy and Vincent are not huge hits to the cap (like Williams) so they can be kept
stuckincincy Posted February 3, 2006 Posted February 3, 2006 Once again, from the top, you started this all, bringing the Bengals in, claiming that Lewis liked two FS types, smaller safeties because presumably they can cover. Kim Herring is the same height as Milloy but 22 pounds heavier. Virtually every safety on the Bengals is bigger than Milloy, free or strong. When the bigger than Milloy safeties went down, the Bengals went out and got an even bigger one than all the others and he started the rest of the season. 593385[/snapback] So? If Herring can play the "traditional" role of FS, who cares what he weighs? This isn't boxing, with mandated weight classes... I didn't start anything, save mentioning that some coaches have different views of safety play. Go hunt down Lewis and beat him up if you like. You are getting crusty as you age...first humor, then deportment, now safties...
sfladave Posted February 3, 2006 Posted February 3, 2006 End of Vincent too probably. Trade down out of the number 8 spot and stock pile 3rds and 4ths. There are many more holes than people think especially on defense. 593307[/snapback] Vincent would thrive in a cover 2. It is perfectly suited for a ball hawk like Vincent. He was basically playing as the only deep DB all last year. If we weren't blitzing Malloy we were playing him at the LOS for 90% of plays. I think we can play the cover 2 effectively with the DBs we have now. That is if we beef up our DL, otherwise we will be torched by the run again this year.
Guest BackInDaDay Posted February 3, 2006 Posted February 3, 2006 Vincent would thrive in a cover 2. It is perfectly suited for a ball hawk like Vincent. He was basically playing as the only deep DB all last year. If we weren't blitzing Malloy we were playing him at the LOS for 90% of plays. I think we can play the cover 2 effectively with the DBs we have now. That is if we beef up our DL, otherwise we will be torched by the run again this year. 593519[/snapback] I agree. Jauron's plan for Fewell to install the Tampa cover-2 could also mean we resign Clements and draft Hawk. We need more speed at LB, especially the MLB spot where Fletcher (at 245) needs to basically drop into a cover-3 look from the middle. With Spikes coming off a ruptured Achille's I'm surprised Jauron trusts him to recover all of his speed - he's gonna need it. I like the idea of pairing Ngata up with Adams because we're gonna have to get pressure from the front 4. Our DE are quick, our CBs are good in run support, and we'll definately get another season or two out of our current safeties. We may even get better production from Wire and the Wisconson kid. Not a bad choice, for most of our D, but we don't have the LB speed we need, yet.
billsfan182 Posted February 3, 2006 Posted February 3, 2006 I think he'll be cut anywayz because of his hight salary and also because i think coy is ready to step in plus the fact that he isnt all that great anymore...but u never know
sfladave Posted February 3, 2006 Posted February 3, 2006 I think he'll be cut anywayz because of his hight salary and also because i think coy is ready to step in plus the fact that he isnt all that great anymore...but u never know 593620[/snapback] I have ZERO faith in Coy Wire's pass coverage ability. It would be a huge step backwards if Wire were to take over Milloys spot on the roster. IMHO!
obie_wan Posted February 3, 2006 Posted February 3, 2006 If John Lynch could play successfully in the cover 2 at his age before going to Denver, then Milloy probably would be ok too. Like Kelly said, I didn't see Milloy getting beat multiple times last season at all in the passing game, it was more that he couldn't provided his usual run support. 593342[/snapback] John Lynch had a tremendous pass rush which pressured QBs so they had limited time to exploit him deep. not quite the same DL in Buffalo
34-78-83 Posted February 3, 2006 Posted February 3, 2006 John Lynch had a tremendous pass rush which pressured QBs so they had limited time to exploit him deep. not quite the same DL in Buffalo 593722[/snapback] Agreed. They are talking about implmenting the cover 2 going forward, so there could be a member change or 2 coming on the D-line me thinks.
VABills Posted February 3, 2006 Posted February 3, 2006 Good discussion, but lost seems to be the fact in while we all seem to recognize the need to have the front 4 get a push on passing downs and be able to stop the rush, what about the corners. Do we have the guys that are big enough to be able to all chuck at the line and feed the routes of the receivers to the inside as much as possible? Mcgee and Nate are both fairly small, they will get eaten alive my the biger WR's who will just run over them, and take the outside routes, which really leaves CB on an island for deep out routes.
The Dean Posted February 3, 2006 Posted February 3, 2006 Good discussion, but lost seems to be the fact in while we all seem to recognize the need to have the front 4 get a push on passing downs and be able to stop the rush, what about the corners. Do we have the guys that are big enough to be able to all chuck at the line and feed the routes of the receivers to the inside as much as possible? Mcgee and Nate are both fairly small, they will get eaten alive my the biger WR's who will just run over them, and take the outside routes, which really leaves CB on an island for deep out routes. 593765[/snapback] Hitting isn't about height (or even size, necessarily) and i think both of our guys are capable of a few tough chucks before they pass along their guy to the safeties. The question, in my mind, is do they know (or can they learn) the proper technique?
Kelly the Dog Posted February 3, 2006 Author Posted February 3, 2006 Good discussion, but lost seems to be the fact in while we all seem to recognize the need to have the front 4 get a push on passing downs and be able to stop the rush, what about the corners. Do we have the guys that are big enough to be able to all chuck at the line and feed the routes of the receivers to the inside as much as possible? Mcgee and Nate are both fairly small, they will get eaten alive my the biger WR's who will just run over them, and take the outside routes, which really leaves CB on an island for deep out routes. 593765[/snapback] Nate is bigger than average for a CB at 6'0" 209. Especially for his speed. He is surely one of the best physical specimins for CB in the entire league.
JDG Posted February 4, 2006 Posted February 4, 2006 You may be right but I really didn't see that at all. I didn't see Milloy chasing guys toward the endzone that he was supposed to cover. I didn't see tight ends roaming free and killing us down the middle or down the sidelines that were his man on the replay. I didn't see backs outrunning him on pass patterns in the flats where he was responsible all day and all year long. I saw that way, way more from most of the other guys though. Sure, it happened some times but they were few. What I saw out of Milloy was not making the plays he normally made around the LOS. Letting running backs through his arms two yards into the defensive backfield which turned into huge gainers that he used to stuff. Dragging running backs and wearing them down seven yards downfield instead of dropping them at the point of contact. 593295[/snapback] I could be wrong, but I could swear that I saw the back of Milloy's jersey flailing after a pass-catcher running downfield far more often than I would have liked this year. As I see it, our defense was even worse than our stats indicated this past year. If a team decided that they wanted to pass against us, they racked up record passing stats. If a team decided that they wanted to run against us, they racked up record running stats. It was like "choose-your-own-adventure" - only almost none of the endings involved dying at the end. At any rate, we all know that this defense could not get off the field on 3rd downs, particularly in the 4th Quarter. So, if our defense was so bad, I don't think that it could have all just been the lack of a defensive tackle. I suspect that there was a real weakness at safety with Milloy, Clements playing poorly, the Denney/Kelsay two-headed monster being invisible, Posey not being particularly good, and Crowell not being quite as good as the hype (somebody had to make tackles eventually - especially when the defense isn't get off the field.) JDG
obie_wan Posted February 4, 2006 Posted February 4, 2006 Agreed. They are talking about implmenting the cover 2 going forward, so there could be a member change or 2 coming on the D-line me thinks. 593728[/snapback] they'd have to bring in Booger McFarland and Simeon Rice as a start
yall Posted February 4, 2006 Posted February 4, 2006 Milloy seems to think he is no longer gonna be a bill.
34-78-83 Posted February 4, 2006 Posted February 4, 2006 Milloy seems to think he is no longer gonna be a bill. 594059[/snapback] According to who?
34-78-83 Posted February 4, 2006 Posted February 4, 2006 they'd have to bring in Booger McFarland and Simeon Rice as a start 594055[/snapback] Right. Either it's those two or forget the whole thing
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