Is Cover 2 the end of Milloy?

[Kelly the Dog]

This could mean the end for Milloy unfortunately. Not a great player at this point in his career but still good, and one of the few Bills that really had heart. I still think one of the major factors in the defense crumbling was his injured thumb in the Tampa game. It took him at least six games to really be able to play his game, wrap up runners, and make plays at the line. He couldn't tackle.

 

Furthermore, in retrospect, TD's failings may have been more that he got some talented players but they ultimately weren't winners. They didn't step up when you needed them most they stepped down. It usually wasn't Milloy missing the play or taking a stupid penalty or leaving his man in crunch time. Yes, he did it once in a while like all other players but he was one of the few winners we had.

[JDG]

This could mean the end for Milloy unfortunately. Not a great player at this point in his career but still good, and one of the few Bills that really had heart. I still think one of the major factors in the defense crumbling was his injured thumb in the Tampa game. It took him at least six games to really be able to play his game, wrap up runners, and make plays at the line. He couldn't tackle.

 

Furthermore, in retrospect, TD's failings may have been more that he got some talented players but they ultimately weren't winners. They didn't step up when you needed them most they stepped down. It usually wasn't Milloy missing the play or taking a stupid penalty or leaving his man in crunch time. Yes, he did it once in a while like all other players but he was one of the few winners we had.

593275[/snapback]

 

Milloy looked like cap bait to me long before the Cover 2 came along. He got burned way too many times this year, and had too few big hits and big plays. Considering that cutting him saves a couple mil against the cap, his time was probably numbered...

 

JDG

[JCBoston]

Furthermore, in retrospect, TD's failings may have been more that he got some talented players but they ultimately weren't winners. They didn't step up when you needed them most they stepped down.

593275[/snapback]

 

Right on. This is why I was so thrilled to hear Marv talk abouty "character guys" at his PC.

[stuckincincy]

This could mean the end for Milloy unfortunately....

593275[/snapback]

 

Interesting point. Cincy's HC Lewis is of the belief that using two lighter-weight FS's are better what with today's passing games.

 

But Cincy's run defense was poor - both starters were out for the season by game 4 - so his theory remains speculation IMO.

[Kelly the Dog]

Milloy looked like cap bait to me long before the Cover 2 came along.    He got burned way too many times this year, and had too few big hits and big plays.    Considering that cutting him saves a couple mil against the cap, his time was probably numbered...

 

JDG

593279[/snapback]

You may be right but I really didn't see that at all. I didn't see Milloy chasing guys toward the endzone that he was supposed to cover. I didn't see tight ends roaming free and killing us down the middle or down the sidelines that were his man on the replay. I didn't see backs outrunning him on pass patterns in the flats where he was responsible all day and all year long. I saw that way, way more from most of the other guys though. Sure, it happened some times but they were few.

 

What I saw out of Milloy was not making the plays he normally made around the LOS. Letting running backs through his arms two yards into the defensive backfield which turned into huge gainers that he used to stuff. Dragging running backs and wearing them down seven yards downfield instead of dropping them at the point of contact.

[tjwbills]

This could mean the end for Milloy unfortunately. Not a great player at this point in his career but still good, and one of the few Bills that really had heart. I still think one of the major factors in the defense crumbling was his injured thumb in the Tampa game. It took him at least six games to really be able to play his game, wrap up runners, and make plays at the line. He couldn't tackle.

 

Furthermore, in retrospect, TD's failings may have been more that he got some talented players but they ultimately weren't winners. They didn't step up when you needed them most they stepped down. It usually wasn't Milloy missing the play or taking a stupid penalty or leaving his man in crunch time. Yes, he did it once in a while like all other players but he was one of the few winners we had.

593275[/snapback]

 

End of Vincent too probably. Trade down out of the number 8 spot and stock pile 3rds and 4ths. There are many more holes than people think especially on defense.

[VABills]

Interesting point. Cincy's HC Lewis is of the belief that using two lighter-weight FS's are better what with today's passing games.

 

But Cincy's run defense was poor - both starters were out for the season by game 4 - so his theory remains speculation IMO.

593287[/snapback]

You know I believe I read that by some other smart guy somewhere else this morning.

[MDH]

You may be right but I really didn't see that at all. I didn't see Milloy chasing guys toward the endzone that he was supposed to cover. I didn't see tight ends roaming free and killing us down the middle or down the sidelines that were his man on the replay. I didn't see backs outrunning him on pass patterns in the flats where he was responsible all day and all year long. I saw that way, way more from most of the other guys though. Sure, it happened some times but they were few.

 

What I saw out of Milloy was not making the plays he normally made around the LOS. Letting running backs through his arms two yards into the defensive backfield which turned into huge gainers that he used to stuff. Dragging running backs and wearing them down seven yards downfield instead of dropping them at the point of contact.

593295[/snapback]

 

The problem here is that Milloy's strength was playing near the LoS. Like you said, he was horrible at it this year and not just for the first 6 games. When a strength is now a weakness that doesn't bode well for the player.

 

Milloy has never been great in coverage so the cover 2 coming to town makes me believe he'll get his walking papers. I can't say I'm displeased with this as I don't think there was a player on the team that displeased me more than Milloy this year. The guy was a solid signing for a few years but looks like he hit the wall.

[Kelly the Dog]

Interesting point. Cincy's HC Lewis is of the belief that using two lighter-weight FS's are better what with today's passing games.

 

But Cincy's run defense was poor - both starters were out for the season by game 4 - so his theory remains speculation IMO.

593287[/snapback]

That is interesting, except for the fact that the Bengals SS is Ifeanyi Ohalete at 6'2" 221 and Milloy is 6'0 190.

[stuckincincy]

You know I believe I read that by some other smart guy somewhere else this morning. 

593309[/snapback]

 

I think I said same, sometimes last year...see also my historical comments on C, G, FB, and MLB...

[VABills]

That is interesting, except for the fact that the Bengals SS is Ifeanyi Ohalete at 6'2" 221 and Milloy is 6'0 190.

593325[/snapback]

Just because Lewis said it and believed it, doesn't mean he had the personnel capable of implementing it.

[Kelly the Dog]

Just because Lewis said it and believed it, doesn't mean he had the personnel capable of implementing it.

593328[/snapback]

That is interesting, because this was Ohalete's first year on the Bengals. Lewis went after him to have him play SS. He played on the Skins and the Cardinals in the two previous seasons.

[VABills]

That is interesting, because this was Ohalete's first year on the Bengals. Lewis went after him to have him play SS. He played on the Skins and the Cardinals in the two previous seasons. 

593333[/snapback]

You mean a GM always gets a coach what he asks for, and never what the GM thinks the coach needs. No that would never happen.

 

Sorry that's my argument.

[34-78-83]

If John Lynch could play successfully in the cover 2 at his age before going to Denver, then Milloy probably would be ok too. Like Kelly said, I didn't see Milloy getting beat multiple times last season at all in the passing game, it was more that he couldn't provided his usual run support.

[stuckincincy]

That is interesting, except for the fact that the Bengals SS is Ifeanyi Ohalete at 6'2" 221 and Milloy is 6'0 190.

593325[/snapback]

 

Ohalete was a pick-up after FS Madieu Williams went down for the count in game 3 or 4, and FS Kim Herring never made it out of camp.

 

So they had Ohalete and Kevin Kaesveharn (who is a decent player - sort of like we wanted Coy Wire to be) and little else.

 

I can see some merit in Lewis' idea, but 2nd - tier safety talent last year in combination with a punching-bag DL conspired...

 

Losing Williams hurt a bunch. A ball hawk, good tackler, good run stopper, and excellent at reading a defense. One of those players who somehow is most always in on the action.

 

Lewis' B'gals seem to prefer trading down, but with IMO nothing at DT, they might be a team talking with the Bills. Dunno.

[Kelly the Dog]

You mean a GM always gets a coach what he asks for, and never what the GM thinks the coach needs.  No that would never happen. 

 

Sorry that's my argument.

593339[/snapback]

I know it's your argument. It's just stupid. I'm sure it happens all the time that headstrong, on the rise, well-liked coaches on the brink of the playoffs like Marvin Lewis tells people in public and private that he likes smaller safeties, so his GM immediately goes out and signs big ones to spite him. Then Lewis starts the incumbent strong safety Kevin Kaesviharn for the first three games, also bigger than Milloy, but benches him for the rest of the season for the much bigger, new SS that Lewis never wanted because he prefers smaller guys. Happens all the time.

[34-78-83]

Why again are we using the Bengals as a defensive model ?

 

[Kelly the Dog]

Ohalete was a pick-up after FS Madieu Williams went down for the count in game 3 or 4, and FS Kim Herring never made it out of camp.

 

So they had Ohalete and Kevin Kaesveharn (who is a decent player - sort of like we wanted Coy Wire to be) and little else.

 

I can see some merit in Lewis' idea, but 2nd - tier safety talent last year in combination with a punching-bag DL conspired...

 

Losing Williams hurt a bunch. A ball hawk, good tackler, good run stopper, and excellent at reading a defense. One of those players who somehow is most always in on the action.

 

Lewis' B'gals seem to prefer trading down, but with IMO nothing at DT, they might be a team talking with the Bills. Dunno.

593359[/snapback]

I shouldnt have said benched. I should have said replaced. KK started the rest of the season at FS. I could be wrong because I know he has played both but I think that KK was always more of a FS as I think he was a CB, too. And he is bigger than Milloy, also. As is Madieu Williams, who is a FS/CB, and not a SS.

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

If John Lynch could play successfully in the cover 2 at his age before going to Denver, then Milloy probably would be ok too. Like Kelly said, I didn't see Milloy getting beat multiple times last season at all in the passing game, it was more that he couldn't provided his usual run support.

593342[/snapback]

 

 

I think you are right to point this out because against the initial premise of this thread, the news may actually be (and its bad news for those who hate having Milloy) that the cover 2 may be a new lease on life for him as a Bill.

 

If you think it through, almost all agree that Milloy sucked last year (some point to the broken hand in the TB game while others point to a broken body from years of play, no matter as both views were dissatisfied with Milloy being expected to operate at the LOS and POA primarily).

 

One answer if he sucks and cannot be counted upon to play effectively at the line of scrimmage is to instead have him take responsibility for playing back.

 

This is called the Cover 2.

 

The question I think Jauron and Levy are facing is whether Milloy's experience will actually allow him to be more effective playing centerfield for the Bills at safety than to have a younger player who is almost certainly faster and likely a better tackler (certainly better than Milloy with a recovering hand injury which makes it hard for him to wrap up).

 

If the safeties are primarily used in the Cover 2 to allow the CBs to do press coverage instead of laying back off the line as NC and McGee did playing on an island in our run blitz D, then SS play will emphasize having the experience to diagnose the play in front of you to figure out:

 

1. Does the CB in press coverage have his guy well marked so I can turn my attention to stealing the ball when a QB tries to thread the needle into this tight coverage, or if my CB looks beat I need to back him up from my cover 2 role.

 

2. It looks like a run play so though I do not have primary tackling responsibility that I had when I played at the LOS for Gray, I do have to play a strong secondary tackler role for the LBs and DL who have orimary run stopping duty.

 

The cap balance will tell the tale, but Jauron's employment of more Cover 2 may be just the new lease on life that allows Milloy and likely Vincent to retire as Bills.

[stuckincincy]

I know it's your argument. It's just stupid. I'm sure it happens all the time that headstrong, on the rise, well-liked coaches on the brink of the playoffs like Marvin Lewis tells people in public and private that he likes smaller safeties, so his GM immediately goes out and signs big ones to spite him. Then Lewis starts the incumbent strong safety Kevin Kaesviharn for the first three games, also bigger than Milloy, but benches him for the rest of the season for the much bigger, new SS that Lewis never wanted because he prefers smaller guys. Happens all the time.

593361[/snapback]

 

Once again, from the top:

 

Starter Kim Herring misses the entire season.

 

Kaesviharn starts in game #1 and plays 16 games.

 

Williams checks out in game #4.

 

Lewis tries to find a player out there who he thinks is the best available. Ohalete is signed.

 

Ohalete stinks. Lewis contemplates suicide, but is talked out of it.