OnTheRocks Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 Wal-Mart Sued Backed by abortion rights groups, three Massachusetts women sued Wal-Mart on Wednesday, accusing the retail giant of violating a state regulation by failing to stock emergency contraception pills in its pharmacies. I am curious...does anyone know what the term, "state regulation" means? Is that "law" or something like the group in California that allows public schools to "regulate" military recruitment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 Wal-Mart SuedI am curious...does anyone know what the term, "state regulation" means? Is that "law" or something like the group in California that allows public schools to "regulate" military recruitment? 592411[/snapback] Pharmecutical regulations. I don't know what they are, and they'd vary from state to state anyway, but it's at least theoretically possible for a state to require a pharmacy to make medication available or to not refuse treatment on non-medical (i.e. moral) grounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Coli Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 Wal-Mart SuedI am curious...does anyone know what the term, "state regulation" means? Is that "law" or something like the group in California that allows public schools to "regulate" military recruitment? 592411[/snapback] The Massachusetts Pharmacy Board has a state-wide regulation requiring that pharmacies ''shall maintain on the premises at all times a sufficient variety and supply of medicinal chemicals and preparations which are necessary to compound and dispense commonly prescribed medications in accordance with the usual needs of the community." 247 CMR 6.00 Registration, Management and Operaton of a Pharmacy or Pharmacy Department (section 6.02 (4)) The issue for these women really isn't that they can not get Plan B, as every other pharmacy in Mass carries it and Wal-Mart isn't that big of a presense out here. Most people go to CVS. The issue is whether Wal-Mart can unilaterally decide not to carry this drug for "business reasons." (Wal-Mart spokeswoman Sarah Clark, in yesterday's Boston Globe...declined to discuss further what the "business reasons" were (Globe article.)) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 The Massachusetts Pharmacy Board has a state-wide regulation requiring that pharmacies ''shall maintain on the premises at all times a sufficient variety and supply of medicinal chemicals and preparations which are necessary to compound and dispense commonly prescribed medications in accordance with the usual needs of the community." 247 CMR 6.00 Registration, Management and Operaton of a Pharmacy or Pharmacy Department (section 6.02 (4))The issue for these women really isn't that they can not get Plan B, as every other pharmacy in Mass carries it and Wal-Mart isn't that big of a presense out here. Most people go to CVS. The issue is whether Wal-Mart can unilaterally decide not to carry this drug for "business reasons." (Wal-Mart spokeswoman Sarah Clark, in yesterday's Boston Globe...declined to discuss further what the "business reasons" were (Globe article.)) 592459[/snapback] There are sound reasons for such laws. Some medications are not very profitable to stock and if you didn't make pharmacies stock pretty much all the basics, those unprofitable meds would not be available. That could be a real issue in a rural area where the nearest pharmacy is a long way away. Another problem is that if one pharmacy stocked only the profitable meds, it could undercut the prices of its competition in the area assuming they are selling those unprofitable meds. In theory, they would drive the competitors out of business so now those meds are no longer available in the area and the ones that are, are more expensive because there is no longer any competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wacka Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 Aren't these the same liberals who hate Wal-Mart and want us to boycott it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 Aren't these the same liberals who hate Wal-Mart and want us to boycott it? 592676[/snapback] Yes. They're clones. All liberals are clones. Some day they'll make a liberal clone out of you as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 The general idea here it that State and Religion must be seperate - no disagreement by me - we watch out for that all the time. But gosh, a prayer session by some students behind closed doors in a public building could cause the most catastrophic results! - like somehow some kids trudging home might have some sort of terrifying dream after walking past a closed door... Now, citizen's personal beliefs in their private affairs, in the public economic sector, is to be a subject of governmental scrutiny? Shall they in the private sector be fired and criminally or civally charged for their personal beliefs? We should be careful when we trample on what our Founding Fathers set up for us, and be very circumspect. Reflect on the words of a mid-century German citizen, a Protestant Minister, Martin Neimoller. It always starts as a murmer, a minor intolerance, then grows... Said Neimoller: 'They came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew Then they came for the Communists and I did not speak out because I was not a Communist. Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out for me. Pastor Martin Niemöller" He perished in a concentration camp. I beg of you, do not countance interference by the State in people's expression, religious or otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Avenger Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 The general idea here it that State and Religion must be seperate - no disagreement by me - we watch out for that all the time. But gosh, a prayer session by some students behind closed doors in a public building could cause the most catastrophic results! - like somehow some kids trudging home might have some sort of terrifying dream after walking past a closed door... Now, citizen's personal beliefs in their private affairs, in the public economic sector, is to be a subject of governmental scrutiny? Shall they in the private sector be fired and criminally or civally charged for their personal beliefs? We should be careful when we trample on what our Founding Fathers set up for us, and be very circumspect. Reflect on the words of a mid-century German citizen, a Protestant Minister, Martin Neimoller. It always starts as a murmer, a minor intolerance, then grows... Said Neimoller: 'They came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew Then they came for the Communists and I did not speak out because I was not a Communist. Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out for me. Pastor Martin Niemöller" He perished in a concentration camp. I beg of you, do not countance interference by the State in people's expression, religious or otherwise. 592728[/snapback] They came for Plan B and I did not speak out because I oppose abortion They came for Ortho Novum 777 and I did not speak up because I am not a promiscuous woman They came for Oxycontin and I did not speak up because it is a narcotic like heroin They came for Viagara and there was no one left to speak for me The author died without ever having had another erection... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 They came for Plan Band I did not speak out because I oppose abortion They came for Ortho Novum 777 and I did not speak up because I am not a promiscuous woman They came for Oxycontin and I did not speak up because it is a narcotic like heroin They came for Viagara and there was no one left to speak for me The author died without ever having had another erection... 592749[/snapback] I know your post tenor, and enjoy it! This is a wee bit of a stretch, though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Avenger Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 I know your post tenor, and enjoy it! This is a wee bit of a stretch, though... 592750[/snapback] Yeah, but it was fun. I really like that quote you gave - it's one of my favorite historical quotes and very powerful. But it can be used for just about anything where a slippery slope argument can come into play (which is almost every issue). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Coli Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 The general idea here it that State and Religion must be seperate - no disagreement by me - we watch out for that all the time. But gosh, a prayer session by some students behind closed doors in a public building could cause the most catastrophic results! - like somehow some kids trudging home might have some sort of terrifying dream after walking past a closed door...592728[/snapback] Huh? What does school prayer have to do with this? This lawsuit is about a reasonable expectation that a pharmacy carries a specific drug. Now, citizen's personal beliefs in their private affairs, in the public economic sector, is to be a subject of governmental scrutiny? Shall they in the private sector be fired and criminally or civally charged for their personal beliefs?592728[/snapback] In the state of Massachusetts, the Mass Pharmacy Board requires pharmacies in the State of Mass to "maintain on the premises at all times a sufficient variety and supply of medicinal chemicals and preparations which are necessary to compound and dispense commonly prescribed medications in accordance with the usual needs of the community." In Mass, it is a reasonable assumption that you can get a specific medication from a pharmacy, regardless of whether that pharmacy is a local mom and pop pharmacy, a regional pharmacy, or an american-wide chain with a pharmacy on the premises. Wal-Mart may not like those regulations, but Wal-Mart can not decide which state-wide regulations it wants to follow and which ones to ignore, and Wal-Mart can not unilaterally exclude itself from carrying a medicine for ambiguous "business reasons" when the population of Mass has a reasonable assumption that the medication will be there. If they want to operate a pharmacy in the state of Massachusetts, then they have to carry these drugs, like every other pharmacy in Mass. That is what the lawsuit is about. We should be careful when we trample on what our Founding Fathers set up for us, and be very circumspect. Reflect on the words of a mid-century German citizen, a Protestant Minister, Martin Neimoller. It always starts as a murmer, a minor intolerance, then grows... Said Neimoller: 'They came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew Then they came for the Communists and I did not speak out because I was not a Communist. Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out for me. Pastor Martin Niemöller" He perished in a concentration camp. I beg of you, do not countance interference by the State in people's expression, religious or otherwise. 592728[/snapback] I really don't follow why this is here. No one is coming to take anyone away. If Wal-Mart wants to do business in the State of Mass, then it has to abide by the regulations set by the state of Mass. Would you be using this quote if the medication in question was not an emergency contraceptive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 (edited) Yeah, but it was fun. I really like that quote you gave - it's one of my favorite historical quotes and very powerful. But it can be used for just about anything where a slippery slope argument can come into play (which is almost every issue). 592759[/snapback] Well, I just deleted a post. Perhaps I must move to this cable connect to adequatey cross swords... I don't know if Neimoller has that wide an applicability in folk's minds these days - sad - but his intent for those who get the real meat of it,has contemporary application. We must be en garde. Edited February 2, 2006 by stuckincincy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Avenger Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 Would you be using this quote if the medication in question was not an emergency contraceptive? 592762[/snapback] Can you imagine the uproar if Wal-Mart decided "for business reasons" that they didn't want to carry insulin, cipro, or even something non life-saving like Viagra? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Coli Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 Can you imagine the uproar if Wal-Mart decided "for business reasons" that they didn't want to carry insulin, cipro, or even something non life-threatening like Viagra? 592771[/snapback] Thus the reason for the regulation. Everyone with a prescription in Mass expects to be able to fill that perscription in any pharmacy in Mass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 Thus the reason for the regulation. Everyone with a prescription in Mass expects to be able to fill that perscription in any pharmacy in Mass. 592773[/snapback] It sounds like he's arguing, though, that pharmacists should have the right to stock drugs according to their own morals. Even though women don't have the right to govern their bodies according to their own morals. Pharmacists should have a choice because women shouldn't. I love the logical fallacy of abortion arguments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 The author died without ever having had another erection... 592749[/snapback] ED vs. RU4812 in MA, I think I'll let you guys sort this one out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 Huh? What does school prayer have to do with this? This lawsuit is about a reasonable expectation that a pharmacy carries a specific drug. 592762[/snapback] The issue is, does the citizen have the right of free expression, and in the absence of active harm caused by said citizen, can the State prosecute same for their personal reasons for refusing to enter into a financial transaction? Can the State force a person to sell a product? Is not seperation of Church and State a two way proposition, or is it right simply that the State can establish laws that can punish citizens in the private sector for their beliefs. Can Wal-Mart et al discharge folks because of their creed? If so, why not because of their race? Sit a speel and think which long-term horse you are backing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Coli Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 The issue is, does the citizen have the right of free expression, and in the absence of active harm caused by said citizen, can the State prosecute same for their personal reasons for refusing to enter into a financial transaction? Can the State force a person to sell a product? Is not seperation of Church and State a two way proposition, or is it right simply that the State can establish laws that can punish citizens in the private sector for their beliefs. 592796[/snapback] This is not be a Church and State issue. If Wal-Mart wants to maintain a pharmacy in the state of Mass, it has to follow the regulations set by Mass. We're not talking about Wal-Mart refusing to sell korean Barbie dolls, we're talking about Wal-Mart being a supplier of regulated substances and disregarding regulations put in place by the state of Mass regarding those regulated substances. I fail to see how Wal-Mart is being punished here. I fail to see how anyone is being harmed here. Any company in any other business has to follow regulations, laws, restrictions, whatever in the state they do business in. I work for a pharmaceutical company in Cambridge. We can't just ignore regulations for "business reasons." Maybe some of those restrictions aren't in place in Boise, Idaho, but we're not in Boise, Idaho. If the restrictions are too prohibitive, we'll just move. No one is forcing Wal-Mart to do business in Mass. They choose to be here, and as such they must follow the regulations that pertain to the business they operate. Can Wal-Mart et al discharge folks because of their creed? If so, why not because of their race?592796[/snapback] Once again, this has absolutely nothing to do with this lawsuit. This is about whether a person can go into a pharmacy in Mass and have the availability of the drug be the same in any other pharmacy in the state. Sit a speel and think which long-term horse you are backing... 592796[/snapback] I'm backing the State of Massachusetts' right to regulate how controlled substances are distributed with regards to expected availability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 Honestly I don't see why any company should be forced to sell anything they don't want to. Simply more government interference for little gain. Hey Mr. Bar Owner, beer is a regulated substance. You now have to carry every kind made. Wait, let me change my stance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 Personally I think parents should have the right to retroactive abortion until their children reach the age of 30. Call it the RU-30-Yet-then-STFU law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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