Common Sense Rules for TSW

[macdaddy]

THANK YOU. Finally some common sense in this thread. 

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I think he's trying to be funny though.

[Johnny Coli]

I think he's trying to be funny though.

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Nope, I'm completely serious.

 

The fact is, to anyone with an ounce of common sense, is that to use the word "dynasty" in describing the Pats is completely delusional. They won the Superbowl in 2001 on a run of incredibly good luck, poor officiating, and horrendous coaching on the part of their opponents. In fact, the very next season they failed to even make the playoffs, cementing the dubious nature of the '01 Superbowl run.

 

I will give them '03 and '04, and will admit that for a span of 18 months they had a good team (and by good team, I really mean great defense and great coaching, because the offense had very little to do with that playoff run). However, this year (the '05 season), had they been in any other division if football (they got to play the AFCE 6 times, accounting for half of their wins) they would have never made the playoffs. Only 3 of their 10 wins came against teams with winning records.

 

Common sense dictates we give the Pats kudos for a good 18 months of football, but no more than that. In fact, when compared to the mid-90s Cowboys who won 3 Superbowls in 4 years, the Pats look foolish. The Cowboys actually made the playoffs in the one year they didn't win it, going to the NFC championship game. Their "run" actually lasted five years.

 

Not only is the Pats' run done, as evidenced by this year's spiral into mediocrity, but they haven't actually been good in over a year.

 

It's common sense.

[Dan Gross]

Ya know K-Dog, it's not really common sense you're talking about here, it's common courtesy. And I think the last ounce of it disappeared sometime in the 20th Century. In either case, they are both highly uncommon in this "me" age....and as you can see from the responses, it's not about "building communities" it's about "taking the stage (and trying to up-stage the previous guy)," not dialogues as much as conflicting monologues.

 

Besides, it's obvious you don't even have "management" support in this. Let the kids have their playground, with one thread with 10,000 posts that no one reads but people keep adding to it...

[The Dean]

Ya know K-Dog, it's not really common sense you're talking about here, it's common courtesy.  And I think the last ounce of it disappeared sometime in the 20th Century.  In either case, they are both highly uncommon in this "me" age....and as you can see from the responses, it's not about "building communities" it's about "taking the stage (and trying to up-stage the previous guy)," not dialogues as much as conflicting monologues.

 

Besides, it's obvious you don't even have "management" support in this.  Let the kids have their playground, with one thread with 10,000 posts that no one reads but people keep adding to it...

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Well put. I'm still with the Dog on this.

[Draconator]

Ya know K-Dog, it's not really common sense you're talking about here, it's common courtesy.  And I think the last ounce of it disappeared sometime in the 20th Century.  In either case, they are both highly uncommon in this "me" age....and as you can see from the responses, it's not about "building communities" it's about "taking the stage (and trying to up-stage the previous guy)," not dialogues as much as conflicting monologues.

 

Besides, it's obvious you don't even have "management" support in this.  Let the kids have their playground, with one thread with 10,000 posts that no one reads but people keep adding to it...

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I appreciate both you Dan and Kelly making suggestions in trying to improve TBD. Yet the suggestions that are being presented, from what I've seen, tend to kill a message board and break apart a community.

 

I mentioned a thread where there are almost 300,000 replies. That thread is here. Yes, it makes absolutely no sense, and there are numerous of repeated posts, but it's one of the most active threads on my board on a daily basis. Something that may have been on page 235 might have been repeated on page 2000. Who cares? It's a very fun thread! It also has it's edgier moments, but that really doesn't matter. I mean, it's a "Bored" thread, so when you're bored, anything is bound to happen!

 

There is another thread on my board that was started very innocently. Someone thought it would be fun to see what Sesame Street Muppet character you were. Only problem is, someone put in an incorrect HTML, and "The Muppet Thread" became a challenge to some members, to see how screwed up they could make each individual page. The link to that thread is here, but remember, enter at your own risk, as some browsers and older computers will crash due to too much damn stuff going on at once!

 

There are many other areas on the board that are not as loose. Everything has a place. From Rush discussions, to Sports, to computer/technology, to Politics, to Religion. People have varied interestes, and with breaking these interests into indiviual areas, that helps a community to go directly to what they wish to talk about.

 

The point I'm making here, is that sometime you just got to let people be themselves. No matter how much of an ass they may be posting on a message board, (yours truly included), it's better to let them go, and find their way. I don't care what message board you're talking about, each and every message board community has it's own flavor, and it takes a while in some instances, for people to find their place.

 

And I have a very stong flipside to this. There was another Rush related message board out there (now closed). The administrator of this board had a very heavy hand in terms of moderation. It was by far one of the largest message boards on the net. Yet posts began to dissapear. Then members would dissapear. (A process this administrator called "depersoning".) Then, emails would show up at people's employer, claiming internet harassment. All this because the administrator did not like what a member had to say, or if their individual opinioins differed from his. If a board administrator has too much moderation in place, it can cloud and eventually prevent a community from ever developing.

 

Letting people be themselves, no matter how wacky it might be, will develop a stronger community. We recently had a Rush fans gathering at our house for Christmas. We had members fly in from Florida, North Carloina, Texas, and Oregon. A large number of members came up from Southern California. We drank, some smoked, had a Christmas gift exchange. And everyone had an amazing time! There are gatherings like this all over the U.S., and in some instances, the world. All because you have people with like interests, yet very different, feeling comfortable enough to be themselves. And there are all kinds of differences. All kinds of professions. We have a producer from CNN in Atlanta, a graphic artist, a Team Manager for a NHRA Funny Car Team, High level professional musicans, Doctors, Lawyers, what have you. It takes all kinds to make a community strong, and for a community to grow.

[The Dean]

I appreciate both you Dan and Kelly making suggestions in trying to improve TBD.  Yet the suggestions that are being presented, from what I've seen, tend to kill a message board and break apart a community. 

 

I mentioned a thread where there are almost 300,000 replies.  That thread is here.  Yes, it makes absolutely no sense, and there are numerous of repeated posts, but it's one of the most active threads on my board on a daily basis.  Something that may have been on page 235 might have been repeated on page 2000.  Who cares?  It's a very fun thread!  It also has it's edgier moments, but that really doesn't matter.  I mean, it's a "Bored" thread, so when you're bored, anything is bound to happen!

 

There is another thread on my board that was started very innocently.  Someone thought it would be fun to see what Sesame Street Muppet character you were.  Only problem is, someone put in an incorrect HTML, and "The Muppet Thread" became a challenge to some members, to see how screwed up they could make each individual page.  The link to that thread is here, but remember, enter at your own risk, as some browsers and older computers will crash due to too much damn stuff going on at once! 

 

There are many other areas on the board that are not as loose.  Everything has a place.  From Rush discussions, to Sports, to computer/technology, to Politics, to Religion.  People have varied interestes, and with breaking these interests into indiviual areas, that helps a community to go directly to what they wish to talk about. 

 

The point I'm making here, is that sometime you just got to let people be themselves.  No matter how much of an ass they may be posting on a message board, (yours truly included), it's better to let them go, and find their way.  I don't care what message board you're talking about, each and every message board community has it's own flavor, and it takes a while in some instances, for people to find their place.

 

And I have a very stong flipside to this.  There was another Rush related message board out there (now closed).  The administrator of this board had a very heavy hand in terms of moderation.  It was by far one of the largest message boards on the net.  Yet posts began to dissapear.  Then members would dissapear. (A process this administrator called "depersoning".)  Then, emails would show up at people's employer, claiming internet harassment.  All this because the administrator did not like what a member had to say, or if their individual opinioins differed from his.  If a board administrator has too much moderation in place, it can cloud and eventually prevent a community from ever developing. 

 

Letting people be themselves, no matter how wacky it might be, will develop a stronger community.  We recently had a Rush fans gathering at our house for Christmas.  We had members fly in from Florida, North Carloina, Texas, and Oregon.  A large number of members came up from Southern California.  We drank, some smoked, had a Christmas gift exchange.  And everyone had an amazing time!  There are gatherings like this all over the U.S., and in some instances, the world.  All because you have people with like interests, yet very different, feeling comfortable enough to be themselves.  And there are all kinds of differences.  All kinds of professions.  We have a producer from CNN in Atlanta, a graphic artist, a Team Manager for a NHRA Funny Car Team, High level professional musicans, Doctors, Lawyers, what have you.  It takes all kinds to make a community strong, and for a community to grow.

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I really don't think Kelly or Dan need a lecture on what makes a good community. They've been around a long time and are active and productive members of this one.

 

I agree with almost everything you said and I'm going to guess Kelly does too. Did he ever suggest a heavy handed mod approach to The Wall? If so, I didn't see it.

 

As Dan stated, he's really asking for common courtsey. We all know the weird threads that go on and on. Hell he's part of those threads. He's not saying you have to be perfect.

 

But, for God's sake (particularly in this slow Bills news time), if all you do is try to slide in your "crusade of the day/week/month" in every thread w/o even paying attention to where the thread has gone...well you're really not helping things here and now. If you just blurt out your first thought to the first post withoput seeing where the conversation has gone, are you really contributing? That's not to say, given a thread, your schedule your familiarity with what's going on, etc, you won't occasionally just post a reply. OF COURSE you will.

 

Since you are such an expert in online communities (snotty inference really not intended, but recognized ), you know the best communities police themselves. THIS is part of that. No heavy-handed mods, no "you must" (although some seem to interpret that way).

 

i saw what he said as a plea for civility. A request that we listen to each other a lilttle, as it seems that has stopped for some (I'm guilty of it myself).

 

I'm shocked this has become such an issue, to be honest.

[Kelly the Dog]

I know it's time to give it up when the Dean is the voice of reason, but the Dean is the voice of reason.

 

Do I have to start singing Blowin' in the Wind before you see it's not a law, it's not a steadfast rule, it's not enforceable, it's not intended to be, it's not every thread, it's not every time. It's only what Dan Gross said, a common courtesy. Everyone who wants to be an ass, intentionally, when you don't have to be, please carry on.

[Draconator]

Do I have to start singing Blowin' in the Wind before you see it's not a law, it's not a steadfast rule, it's not enforceable, it's not intended to be, it's not every thread, it's not every time. It's only what Dan Gross said, a common courtesy.

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I think it should be a rule that if you are going to respond to any thread, you must read all previous responses in that particular thread.

[The Dean]

I know it's time to give it up when the Dean is the voice of reason, but the Dean is the voice of reason.

 

Do I have to start singing Blowin' in the Wind before you see it's not a law, it's not a steadfast rule, it's not enforceable, it's not intended to be, it's not every thread, it's not every time. It's only what Dan Gross said, a common courtesy. Everyone who wants to be an ass, intentionally, when you don't have to be, please carry on.

591843[/snapback]

 

 

Hey...when I'm the voice of reason, well...there's some serious trouble brewing.

[Crap Throwing Monkey]

Hey...when I'm the voice of reason, well...there's some serious trouble brewing.

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You've been the voice of reason before, though.

 

For example...when you coined the term "drunch".

[The Dean]

You've been the voice of reason before, though.

 

For example...when you coined the term "drunch". 

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Well, I DO have my areas of expertise.

[Draconator]

I really don't think Kelly or Dan need a lecture on what makes a good community.  They've been around a long time and are active and productive members of this one.

 

I wasn't trying to lecture, and I apologize if it came across that way.

 

I agree with almost everything you said and I'm going to guess Kelly does too.  Did he ever suggest a heavy handed mod approach to The Wall?  If so, I didn't see it.

 

One common problem with all message boards, is that they're black and white. (Emotions are generally void on a computer screen). The first post read where Kelly thought it should be a rule that every post is read. I went with what was typed.

 

As Dan stated, he's really asking for common courtsey.  We all know the weird threads that go on and on.  Hell he's part of those threads.  He's not saying you have to be perfect. 

 

Very well stated.

 

But, for God's sake (particularly in this slow Bills news time), if all you do is try to slide in your "crusade of the day/week/month" in every thread w/o even paying attention to where the thread has gone...well you're really not helping things here and now.  If you just blurt out your first thought to the first post withoput seeing where the conversation has gone, are you really contributing?  That's not to say, given a thread, your schedule your familiarity with what's going on, etc, you won't occasionally just post a reply.  OF COURSE you will.

 

Dan mentioned that we live in a "me" generation (or words to that effect). I would add that we also live in a generation where patience is a low commodity. When there is a thread of 50 or so replies, the first inclination is to blow past the majority of the posts, and try to get the "cliff notes". To what Dan and Kelly said, if you do this, you will miss the meat of the thread, and will ultimately restate the obvious.

 

Since you are such an expert in online communities (snotty inference really not intended, but recognized  ), you know the best communities police themselves.  THIS is part of that.  No heavy-handed mods, no "you must"  (although some seem to interpret that way).

 

I see what has been happening in this post, as a plea from Kelly that although this is a smooth sailing ship, he forsees some rough seas, and is trying to stear around them by taking a very long path. What I was trying to say is that sometimes the seas are not so rough.

 

Ok. All that water reference stuff was "ugh".

 

i saw what he said as a plea for civility.  A request that we listen to each other a lilttle, as it seems that has stopped for some (I'm guilty of it myself).

 

Hell knows I've been already convicted of this!

 

I'm shocked this has become such an issue, to be honest.

 

Yet it is always helpful to talk about circumstances, be it small or big, to smooth things out. (Or this edit to say, figure things out).

Edited February 2, 2006 by Draconator

[Crap Throwing Monkey]

Well, I DO have my areas of expertise. 

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Between that and your drinkling habit...

 

A shame there's so few of us true old-timers left around now. We've been replaced by a bunch of snot-nosed self-important know-nothing Gen-Xers who think typing sh-- like "Jp LoSmAn Is KeWl!!!" or "Would Mighty Mouse be a better QB than Aquaman?" is intelligent conversation.

[Kelly the Dog]

One common problem with all message boards, is that they're black and white. (Emotions are generally void on a computer screen). The first post read where Kelly thought it should be a rule that every post is read. I went with what was typed.

 

 

Try reading the thread, it's a good idea.

Here are the first ten posts I typed in this thread. Then I kind of gave up.

 

#1 This is intended, seriously, to be a serious thread. Anyone putting a joke in here, or not responding seriously, should be publicly ridiculed and humiliated, and privately beaten for being a total ass. It will be a public admission that you are a total ass if you put a joke or a non-serious suggestion in this particular thread. I am asking politely. There are 1000 other threads to joke in. Please use those.

 

I think it should be a rule that if you are going to respond to any thread, you must read all previous responses in that particular thread. To eliminate duplicate and triplicate and quadruplicate responses. Even if the thread is 16 pages long. This may not be punishable by death or banning, but a basic unwritten law nonetheless. I think it would improve the board tremendously.

 

Please offer a serious response to this notion, if you have one. Or suggest another serious rule which may or may not be officially adopted.

 

#2

Doesn't need to be enforceable, just understood. It's not something that everyone should jump on you if you don't follow it every single time, just something everyone should keep in mind 90% of the time.

 

#3 Apparently there shouldn't be any laws or rules or standards or even unwritten assumptions to be followed by the majority, and the world and country and message board should be Lord of the Flies.

 

#4<<<<Case in point.

 

#5No. The point was ONLY that when one reads through a thread and two or four or six posters have said the exact same response, or asked the exact same question, and it becomes entirely evident that if they would have simply read the thread they wouldnt be saying the exact same thing, the board would be better for everyone. That's all.

 

#6 I'm not talking about other threads. Did you read the post and the thread? I only suggested that perhaps read the thread you are posting in before you post. It doesn't have to be a steadfast rule. If you're in a hurry no one will or should jump on you for posting something that has already been addressed once in awhile. It's just a simple courtesy that would make this place easier to read and better to enjoy for everyone. Hence, a "common sense rule". Not even a rule, a suggestion.

 

#7 Common courtesy does not impede freedom. i didn't suggest anyone stopping saying something new and free. I suggested the exact opposite.

 

#8 True, and you're right. I just think that people easily forget stuff, and if you remind people to be courteous once in awhile some of them will remember to be more corteous more often. You're not trying to get everyone to do it, just more people more of the time. I don't know how many times I can say it shouldn't be a steadfast rule. The responses to this thread have been rather remarkable to me, even after being here for so long.

 

#9 Just a small effort some of the time or most of the time wuld improve the place drastically, IMO. I shouldn't have mentioned the 16 page threads, it's really more about the one and two pagers.

 

#10 No, but if you would read the post you are responding to you would know the answer.

[Draconator]

Try reading the thread, it's a good idea.

Here are the first ten posts I typed in this thread. Then I kind of gave up.

 

#1 This is intended, seriously, to be a serious thread. Anyone putting a joke in here, or not responding seriously, should be publicly ridiculed and humiliated, and privately beaten for being a total ass. It will be a public admission that you are a total ass if you put a joke or a non-serious suggestion in this particular thread. I am asking politely. There are 1000 other threads to joke in. Please use those.

 

I think it should be a rule that if you are going to respond to any thread, you must read all previous responses in that particular thread. To eliminate duplicate and triplicate and quadruplicate responses. Even if the thread is 16 pages long. This may not be punishable by death or banning, but a basic unwritten law nonetheless. I think it would improve the board tremendously.

 

Please offer a serious response to this notion, if you have one. Or suggest another serious rule which may or may not be officially adopted.

 

#2

Doesn't need to be enforceable, just understood. It's not something that everyone should jump on you if you don't follow it every single time, just something everyone should keep in mind 90% of the time.

 

#3 Apparently there shouldn't be any laws or rules or standards or even unwritten assumptions to be followed by the majority, and the world and country and message board should be Lord of the Flies.

 

#4<<<<Case in point.

 

#5No. The point was ONLY that when one reads through a thread and two or four or six posters have said the exact same response, or asked the exact same question, and it becomes entirely evident that if they would have simply read the thread they wouldnt be saying the exact same thing, the board would be better for everyone. That's all.

 

#6 I'm not talking about other threads. Did you read the post and the thread? I only suggested that perhaps read the thread you are posting in before you post. It doesn't have to be a steadfast rule. If you're in a hurry no one will or should jump on you for posting something that has already been addressed once in awhile. It's just a simple courtesy that would make this place easier to read and better to enjoy for everyone. Hence, a "common sense rule". Not even a rule, a suggestion.

 

#7 Common courtesy does not impede freedom. i didn't suggest anyone stopping saying something new and free. I suggested the exact opposite.

 

#8 True, and you're right. I just think that people easily forget stuff, and if you remind people to be courteous once in awhile some of them will remember to be more corteous more often. You're not trying to get everyone to do it, just more people more of the time. I don't know how many times I can say it shouldn't be a steadfast rule. The responses to this thread have been rather remarkable to me, even after being here for so long.

 

#9 Just a small effort some of the time or most of the time wuld improve the place drastically, IMO. I shouldn't have mentioned the 16 page threads, it's really more about the one and two pagers.

 

#10 No, but if you would read the post you are responding to you would know the answer.

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BUT I HAVE NO PATIENCE YO!!!

 

And, you may have missed a quote.

 

You are right. When I started my reply, I did not read the follow up posts. I guess I made your point perfectly clear.

[Draconator]

FLOOD CONTROL SUCKS!!! [/rant]

[Draconator]

And I missed a quote too.

 

(Is it 15 seconds yet?)

[BRH]

In this software, I do not remember seeing anything that will allow you to get rid of post count for members. You can, however, stop the post count from increasing.

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You can, however, individually set every member's post count to zero and then set all the forums to not increase the members' post counts.

 

Put that on your list of things to do on a slow day.

 

[Edit: Upon reflection, it might be easier -- relatively speaking, of course -- to reverse the steps I suggested...]

[Buford T. Justice]

Good to see the only person paying serious attention to this thread isn't a moderator.

[Draconator]

You can, however, individually set every member's post count to zero and then set all the forums to not increase the members' post counts.

 

Put that on your list of things to do on a slow day. 

 

[Edit:  Upon reflection, it might be easier -- relatively speaking, of course -- to reverse the steps I suggested...]

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In the skin options area, you can go into the boards HTML, then into Forum view options, and edit out the post counts. I've done something similar by editing out the subforums listed in Forum options.