sven233 Posted January 28, 2006 Posted January 28, 2006 Well, as you all know I am VERY high on getting D'Brick in here with our first round pick. He is a dominant pass blocker and a franchise LT for years to come. He has been the talk of the Senior Bowl and from all reports has dominated all of his competition (as expected). The only knock on him at all is the fact that he plays a little light, which will hurt his run blocking some. However, after his performance this year and at the Senior Bowl practices, that doen't seem to be an issue as he is the stand out player there. He is going to be a fantastic player in the NFL for years to come. This is the guy I want and I know many of you want as well. But, he is slated to be a top 5 pick in the draft. That is the problem. And with Marv's history in the draft, we will not be trading up.....or down for that matter. I don't recall Marv making any moves in the draft hardly at all. With that said, our only chance at getting him is at 8. From all the mocks that are out there, there really is 1, maybe 2 teams in our way that have a great chance of getting him. The team of most concern seems to be the Jets at 4. So I took a stroll over to their message board to see what there big draft hype is all about. As expected, BRICK seems to be the favorite as of now. HOWEVER, it is interesting to note that Jay Cutler seems to not only be on their radar, but is quickly gaining some steam to be picked at 4. There is also talk of them trying to trade that pick and move down to 7 or so to take him there (before Detroit). There is also some talk to DeAngelo Williams there as well. Also, there is an outside chance that you may see AJ Hawk go there as well.....seem like Mangini's type of LB and with them running a 3-4 Defense, that could be the choice. BUT, overall, it looks as though BRICK is the favorite to go to the Jets at 4. However, after spending some time there, I believe there might be a SLIVER of hope that the Jets pass on him, leaving there a decent chance he might be there at 8 for us. D'BRICK might be the best player to come out of this draft according to a lot of people. I am just hoping he slides to us. Likely.....no. But, there might be an outside shot. Then we have to worry about Green Bay and even San Fransisco. So, it probably won't happen, but I am hoping the miracle takes place and he ends up here.
Quester74 Posted January 28, 2006 Posted January 28, 2006 I keep seeing references to Marv having a history of not making trades in the draft. Exactly how much say do you supopse Ralph had in drafting the early 90's Bills teams? My guess? Very little. Polian is given the credit for those teams, not Marv. I have to think that if there is a player that Marv wants, Marv will do what he has to get that player. (Within reason) Also, I hate to burst your bubble about D-Brick, but if his run blocking is as mediocre as is being reported, I would have to think that Jauron is going to try to get Marv to pick someone else. He's a defensive guy, and if that pick isn't used on the D, I would think he's gonna want a punishing run blocker for his O-line. I'd really like them to figure out the OT situation, and get Peters back out at TE. He's a good enough athlete to catch a first down pass every now and again, and obviously run blocks well enough, that they tried him at RT most of the season. Use him the way the Redskins did their TE's back in the late 80's. Six offensive linemen plaowing a road for Willis.. I'm drooling at the thought.
BillsGuyInMalta Posted January 28, 2006 Posted January 28, 2006 According to NFLDraftCountdown (easily the most accurate and IMO the most in-depth draft site out there), their reports from the Senior Bowl is that D'Brickashaw is the most dominant player in practice. Just running people over...a total monster. We'll see how he does in the Senior Bowl tonight, I'll be keeping an eye on him. It would be damn foolish of us to pass on him if he makes it to our pick.
1gap2gap Posted January 28, 2006 Posted January 28, 2006 I'm sorry to say, I think the garbage about Cutler was a way for the Titians to draw attention away from them picking Ferguson with the 3rd pick of the draft. Bush, Leinart, Ferguson will be the first three picks then the Jets will have a hard decision -- Vince Young QB? Just one person's opinion.
sfladave Posted January 28, 2006 Posted January 28, 2006 I haven't had a chance to see him play, BUT there seems to be a lot of conflicting reports about his ability to live up to all the hype he has been getting. The fact that most of the downside talked about is his lack of size and his run blocking ability really concerns me! As I mentioned I have not seen much of him, so I am certainly not an expert here. I would feel more comfortable with a DL with our 1st pick
Rico Posted January 28, 2006 Posted January 28, 2006 I'm sorry to say, I think the garbage about Cutler was a way for the Titians to draw attention away from them picking Ferguson with the 3rd pick of the draft. Bush, Leinart, Ferguson will be the first three picks then the Jets will have a hard decision -- Vince Young QB? Just one person's opinion. 586672[/snapback] Given the success that the Broncos have had with lesser RB's, I would not be surprised to see Kubiak & the Texans pass on Reggie Bush. Da Brick, being a finesse LT fitting the Broncos style of OL play, could go #1 (especially if he follows a great Senior Bowl week with a great showing at the Combines).... and I still wouldn't rule out Vince Young going back home. I think the Bush talk is just a smokescreen.
sven233 Posted January 28, 2006 Author Posted January 28, 2006 I haven't had a chance to see him play, BUT there seems to be a lot of conflicting reports about his ability to live up to all the hype he has been getting. The fact that most of the downside talked about is his lack of size and his run blocking ability really concerns me! As I mentioned I have not seen much of him, so I am certainly not an expert here. I would feel more comfortable with a DL with our 1st pick 586677[/snapback] I think all of the concerns about his run blocking are blown a little out of proportion. He is an above average run blocker. The thing is that his pass protection skills are just off the chart! He is SOOOOOOOO DOMINANT in pass protection that you just have to find something that is a "weakness." Well, the fact is that he really doen't have one. His run blocking skills are very good, but pale in comparrison to his pass blocking skills, hence, that is being said to be his weakness as a player can't be perfect. But more is being made of it than necessary. HE IS DOMINANT. And all reports coming from the Senior Bowl practices say the same thing.....He has just been RUNNING OVER AND THROUGH EVERYBODY there. He is said to be the most DOMINANT player that the Senior Bowl and has been the most DOMINANT LT all year. He will be a fantastic player for years to come. That being said, I just convinced myself there is no way he is there at 8. Oh well.........hopefully we can come up with stud player of our own. Just hope it is not that overrated Ngata guy. Talk about not being able to live up the the hype.......I have him as a mid to late 1st at best. I just don't see "star" written all over him. He is just a sleightly above average DT.
Quester74 Posted January 28, 2006 Posted January 28, 2006 I think all of the concerns about his run blocking are blown a little out of proportion. He is an above average run blocker. The thing is that his pass protection skills are just off the chart! He is SOOOOOOOO DOMINANT in pass protection that you just have to find something that is a "weakness." Well, the fact is that he really doen't have one. His run blocking skills are very good, but pale in comparrison to his pass blocking skills, hence, that is being said to be his weakness as a player can't be perfect. But more is being made of it than necessary. HE IS DOMINANT. And all reports coming from the Senior Bowl practices say the same thing.....He has just been RUNNING OVER AND THROUGH EVERYBODY there. He is said to be the most DOMINANT player that the Senior Bowl and has been the most DOMINANT LT all year. He will be a fantastic player for years to come. That being said, I just convinced myself there is no way he is there at 8. Oh well.........hopefully we can come up with stud player of our own. Just hope it is not that overrated Ngata guy. Talk about not being able to live up the the hype.......I have him as a mid to late 1st at best. I just don't see "star" written all over him. He is just a sleightly above average DT. 586696[/snapback] If he's THAT good, then it's a moot point.. because he won't last until our pick.
Steve O Posted January 28, 2006 Posted January 28, 2006 But, he is slated to be a top 5 pick in the draft. That is the problem. And with Marv's history in the draft, we will not be trading up.....or down for that matter. 586654[/snapback] Marv has a history of not trading up or down? Remember Cornellius Bennett? Gave up 2 firsts, a second, and Gregg Bell (another first) for him. Seems to me if Marv really wants someone, he will get him! After this "blockbuster" trade there really was no reason to trade up or down. Bills impact players were set, really only needed to fine tune. Our scouts did a great job of finding need and even impact players in later rounds. If offensive line was the only need, Marv would find a way to get D'brick. Just that with our apparent need on the defensive line as well, it probably isn't worth what would have to be given up to move into the top 5.
timmyk12 Posted January 28, 2006 Posted January 28, 2006 Marv has a history of not trading up or down? Remember Cornellius Bennett? Gave up 2 firsts, a second, and Gregg Bell (another first) for him. Seems to me if Marv really wants someone, he will get him! After this "blockbuster" trade there really was no reason to trade up or down. Bills impact players were set, really only needed to fine tune. Our scouts did a great job of finding need and even impact players in later rounds. If offensive line was the only need, Marv would find a way to get D'brick. Just that with our apparent need on the defensive line as well, it probably isn't worth what would have to be given up to move into the top 5. 586733[/snapback] That same year, Polian and Marv traded DOWN to get Shane Conlan and the other guy, "Went to Jail" as Marv so elequently stated in his initial hiring press conference. That trade ultimately landed the Bills Nate Odomes. With that said, the price will be way to much from the Jets to trade up for D'Brick. No way does D'Brick last past #4 after the Senior Bowl practices this week. Also, Kiper reported that D'Brick was the most dominant player at the Senior Bowl and John Clayton reported that there is a lot of speculation that the Jets will trade down a few spots and take Cutler.
sfladave Posted January 28, 2006 Posted January 28, 2006 Marv has a history of not trading up or down? Remember Cornellius Bennett? Gave up 2 firsts, a second, and Gregg Bell (another first) for him. Seems to me if Marv really wants someone, he will get him! After this "blockbuster" trade there really was no reason to trade up or down. Bills impact players were set, really only needed to fine tune. Our scouts did a great job of finding need and even impact players in later rounds. If offensive line was the only need, Marv would find a way to get D'brick. Just that with our apparent need on the defensive line as well, it probably isn't worth what would have to be given up to move into the top 5. 586733[/snapback] On Marv's PC anouncing him as GM he brought up this trade. He said he was completely against it, and only after Polian hounded him, including a phone call at 3am, did he give in.
MadBuffaloDisease Posted January 28, 2006 Posted January 28, 2006 With that said, the price will be way to much from the Jets to trade up for D'Brick. No way does D'Brick last past #4 after the Senior Bowl practices this week. Also, Kiper reported that D'Brick was the most dominant player at the Senior Bowl and John Clayton reported that there is a lot of speculation that the Jets will trade down a few spots and take Cutler. If the Jets are keen on drafting Cutler but not paying him #4 money, trading down to #8 and taking slightly less (a 1st, 3rd, and 4th) than the draft pick value chart indicates could very well happen.
sfladave Posted January 28, 2006 Posted January 28, 2006 If the Jets are keen on drafting Cutler but not paying him #4 money, trading down to #8 and taking slightly less (a 1st, 3rd, and 4th) than the draft pick value chart indicates could very well happen. 586743[/snapback] Drafting an OT with the 4th pick? It gives me a little concern.
Lori Posted January 28, 2006 Posted January 28, 2006 Marv has a history of not trading up or down? Remember Cornellius Bennett? 586733[/snapback] That wasn't a draft-day deal, which I *think* is the point the "Marv won't trade" people are trying to make. Still not sure which parallel universe they're getting this information from, though, since (as has been pointed out many times previously) the 2006 draft will be his first as an NFL GM...
Kultarr Posted January 28, 2006 Posted January 28, 2006 That wasn't a draft-day deal, which I *think* is the point the "Marv won't trade" people are trying to make. Still not sure which parallel universe they're getting this information from, though, since (as has been pointed out many times previously) the 2006 draft will be his first as an NFL GM... 586769[/snapback] I think they mean that Polian is just Marv's puppet.
Lori Posted January 28, 2006 Posted January 28, 2006 I think they mean that Polian is just Marv's puppet. 586773[/snapback] Oh, no... we're not going to start talking about Muppets again, are we?
BillsGuyInMalta Posted January 28, 2006 Posted January 28, 2006 Oh, no... we're not going to start talking about Muppets again, are we? 586779[/snapback] To quote one of my famous Simpsons moments... "Hey Dad, whats a muppet?" "Well son, its not quite a mop...and its not quite a puppet, but boy...when you put them together you get..." *Homer begins to laugh hysterically to himself* "...so to answer your question, I dont know"
2003Contenders Posted January 28, 2006 Posted January 28, 2006 Since the Jets have SO many needs, I would expect them to move down if given the opportunity. If Mangini has learned anything from his days in New England, you have to think that is exactly what the Jets plan on doing. That being the case, the partner willing to trade up with the Jets would likely be targeting Ferguson. So I don''t think it is fair to assume that the Jets' trading out of that spot is good news for us.
sven233 Posted January 28, 2006 Author Posted January 28, 2006 Since the Jets have SO many needs, I would expect them to move down if given the opportunity. If Mangini has learned anything from his days in New England, you have to think that is exactly what the Jets plan on doing. That being the case, the partner willing to trade up with the Jets would likely be targeting Ferguson. So I don''t think it is fair to assume that the Jets' trading out of that spot is good news for us. 586786[/snapback] I definately do not think that the Jets trading out of that spot would be a good thing. I like you think if that happened, it would be for no other reason than the drafting of the BRICK. It is olmost like we have to hope that they do stay there and choose someone else.......that is our only chance. Even then, there will be teams looking to trade up ahead of us to get him..... As much as I tried to make the case, I just don't think we have a chance to get him. It would be a miracle.
Fake-Fat Sunny Posted January 28, 2006 Posted January 28, 2006 I hope and I do not see the Bills trading up to get any player. If we were one player away from winning or even getting to the SB next year and that player was in the top 7 then by all means trade value away to get him and risk the huge cap hit vested in taking a player at the MW/Harrington spot in the draft. However, even if one buys into the reports on D'Brick the Golden Boy stated calculus of win now seems to dictate first that there is a real limit to the value of a player whose primary value is that he will become out LT for years to come after he hits in stride in his second year (if we are lucky- when did Pace/Ogden. or Walter Jones make their 1st Pro Bowls). Add to that the Bills being more than 1 player away so not only does time a player contribute count against us trading up for a long-term great payoff, but if anything our goals of winning sooner rather than later actually dictates us trading down for extra help instead of trading up or staying where we are. Third, add into this that trading up actually will strip us of needed resources and agree with you that we will almost certainly not trade up and if we do it is a death sentence in 06 and maybe in 07 also. I think this draft will be interesting because it will be more fluid than usual. I hope someone makes us some stupid blockbuster offer and we move down, but instead I look for some real draftday movement as we try to get that extra thrid rounder by trading down who make the Pro Bowl as Travis when we chose him but we still get the player we targeted with the pick as we did that year when got Clements anyway and he also got the Pro Bowl nonor once. Even with good maeuvers such as this TH turned out to be an idiot and Nate has failed to live up to the lofty goals he set for himself. We'll see.
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