eball Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 I've been thinking about this <cheap> for a couple of weeks, but I can't find any opinions on the topic <cheap>. It seems as though the Bills should <cheap> be able to get some good coaches in here, but maybe Ralph is <cheap> cheap and doesn't want to pay them enough? I don't know; I could really use some <cheap> insight here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobillsinytown Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 I'm guessing you're being sarcastic, but I'll assume you're not. The fact is, NO ONE on this board can say with any real knowledge that Ralph is cheap when it comes to hiring coaches. If anyone here cliams that they can, then I invite them to produce the salary figures to prove it, with comparisons to other teams coaching salary figures. Let me add some perspective to all this shrieking and gnashing-of-teeth on this subject: I live in Youngstown, Ohio, about an hour away from Cleveland. When Bill Bellicheck was the head coach, no one in the Browns' fan base believed that he was going to be anything other than a loser. The talk shows were filled with broad statements about his lack of personality, his lack of experience and lack of ability. Why? Because they were losing. I can also recall the New England "boo birds" saying the same thing when he was hired to coach the Patriots, with all the same hand-wringing that's going on with the Bills' fan base right now: "The owner's abandoning the team! We're going to be 1-15 next year!", etc. etc. etc. I would think by now that most Bills fans, who are smarter and more informed about their team than most, would understand the one golden rule of NFL operation: Win and you're in. Lose, and you're out. It really is that simple. So when a team is losing, coaches and GMs are going to be fired and new ones hired. The fact still remains that we really don't know, nor do the sportswriters on the internet or at ESPN know, the inner workings of any NFL team, nor do we have the backgrounds or experience to evaluate an NFL organization. I can understand that everyone's upset that the team they love is losing (me included), but this is getting ridiculous. If all the NFL owners were only going to pay for "name" coaches, how would someone like Bellicheck get another chance with a new team? Relax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEAST MODE BABY! Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 The fact is, NO ONE on this board can say with any real knowledge that Ralph is cheap when it comes to hiring coaches. Mularkey was certainly on the lower end of the NFL scale. It doesn't take a genius to extrapole that they aren't exactly throwing out money for coaches at OBD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 If all the NFL owners were only going to pay for "name" coaches, how would someone like Bellicheck get another chance with a new team? Relax. 586071[/snapback] Everyone who is taking offense to the logical assumption that "Ralph is cheap" makes this comment to solidify their point. In fact, it does nothing to argue that Ralph isn't cheap, but only reinforces that, by going the cheap rout, you get lucky sometimes. That is all very true, but all signs point to Ralph being cheap! He has gotten lucky being cheap at times (Marv Levy comes to mind), but not other times. I like Jauron, and I like the Fairchild hiring, but I am under no illusion that we are getting guys like these, as our candidate pool, because our owner simply does not pay top money, to get top names, on the sidelines. Being cheap doesn't mean he will fail, only that it is silly to get ones hopes up that guys like Jim Bates (who is likely making not much less to coach with the Packers this year, than Dick Jauron will make in Buffalo as a HC) will come to Buffalo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 Mularkey was certainly on the lower end of the NFL scale. It doesn't take a genius to extrapole that they aren't exactly throwing out money for coaches at OBD. 586088[/snapback] MM was an OC and one that was not in great demand as HC. If he liked him as a HC, why should he pay more for him than he needed to? The only way that proves Ralph is cheap is if you thing the REASON he hired MM is because MM came cheap. None of us know if that is true. I know the rich old coot's never passed out cash to the fans...does that make him cheap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEAST MODE BABY! Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 MM was an OC and one that was not in great demand as HC. If he liked him as a HC, why should he pay more for him than he needed to? The only way that proves Ralph is cheap is if you thing the REASON he hired MM is because MM came cheap. None of us know if that is true. I know the rich old coot's never passed out cash to the fans...does that make him cheap? 586095[/snapback] Name a highly paid coach that we've had here in Buffalo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 MM was an OC and one that was not in great demand as HC. If he liked him as a HC, why should he pay more for him than he needed to? 586095[/snapback] My god, that is the whole stinkin' point! MM, was an offensive coordinator, not in great demand (the Raiders, the other notorious low-balling coach team in the NFL, were the Bills only competition at the pro level). That is why he was our coach. It is not that Ralph really wanted MM, but then wouldn't pay him. It is that Ralph only wants guys that he knows will come relatively cheap...why is this so hard to understand? Nobody was really interested in Hank Bullough, Kay Stephenson, Marv Levy, Wade Phillips, Gregg Williams, Mike Mularkey or Dick Jauron when the Bills hired them. So, they came cheap, because there wasn't a great demand for their services....it doesn't mean that they were all bad coaches. All, except Wade Phillips, came with losing records, or no experience as a HC! Those are our last 7 head coaches. I can go back further. Jim Ringo, Dick Rauch, Harvy Johnson, Joe Collier and Buster "frigin" Ramsey! Only Lou Saban (part 2) and Chuck Knox came to Buffalo with a winning reputation....don't you find that a little coincidental? Ralph had a history, until the Kelly era, of lowballing players as well. He came to realize, people pay to see players play, not coaches coach. He started paying players, but still does not seem to want to break the bank to pay the old guys on the sidelines. Given the economic climate that the Bills operate in, it is probably a very sound business decision, but the facts are still the facts. Ralph is cheap, when it comes to paying coaches.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turftoe Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 I can also recall the New England "boo birds" saying the same thing when he was hired to coach the Patriots, with all the same hand-wringing that's going on with the Bills' fan base right now: "The owner's abandoning the team! We're going to be 1-15 next year!", etc. etc. etc. Boo Birds , therefore, must go cheap cheap cheap.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 Name a highly paid coach that we've had here in Buffalo. 586123[/snapback] Not sure. My guess is Chuck Knox and Lou Saban made competitive $ in their time. It's clear he doesn't throw around $ on coaches or get in bidding wars. But, that does not mean he's refused to hire a coach he wanted due to $....or lost a coach due to $....or didn't pursue a coach due to $. It MAY be true he's truly cheap with coaches. I'm saying that the fact the Bills have had coaches at the lower end of the payscale does not necessarily lead to that conclusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 Name a highly paid coach that we've had here in Buffalo. 586123[/snapback] uhmmm....uhhhh.....Lou Saban was paid about 70 grand i think in his 2nd stint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kultarr Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 I once saw him short change a 1 cent gumball machine. Oh, that was Ralph Benson, oops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nero47 Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 Most people are paid what they are willing to accept. The majority generally believes they are worth more, but accept less for a reason. Going from Coordinator to HC may entail a jump in salary of $ 250 - $ 500 thou per year. For most not a bad jump to prove oneself. Some coaches who are fired, such as sherman need to realize they won't get the open checkbook for the next job. Does this make Ralph cheap? No. Only if he is trying to destroy his franchise, by hiring on the basis of salary only. If he or any other business owner did this, he would be the dumbest business person ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEAST MODE BABY! Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 I'm saying that the fact the Bills have had coaches at the lower end of the payscale does not necessarily lead to that conclusion. And conversely, the fact that we don't have coaches at the higher end of the pay scale leads me to believe that OBD is unwilling to pay for it. I mean, the best name you can give me is Chuck Knox? I believe, in business, you look for the best person available (kind of like how we draft). What they have saved in salary do you think they could have made up in ticket sales for palyoff games (assuming higher pay= better results). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobillsinytown Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 Being cheap doesn't mean he will fail, only that it is silly to get ones hopes up that guys like Jim Bates (who is likely making not much less to coach with the Packers this year, than Dick Jauron will make in Buffalo as a HC) will come to Buffalo. 586091[/snapback] OK, let's follow this for a minute. You're assuming something about Bates that I'm not sure is safe to assume: That he turned the job down because of the money. I've read some rumors to that effect, but nothing that's been verified by Bates himself. Regardless, why would someone "get their hopes up" that an assistant coach is going to make all the difference? What if Bates came here and the defense stunk again? And those teams that are rumored to pay top dollar for their coaches don't necessarily win. Take for example Dallas. While it's true that they have a winning record, by this line of reasoning they shoud be getting to the superbowl or at least the playoffs every year with the amount of money that's tied up in Parcells alone. All I'm saying is that running an NFL team is far more complicated than just plugging in salaries or getting lucky. The Bills were one of the winningest teams in the '90's for a reason, and it wasn't just luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bleedinblue Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 Name a highly paid coach that we've had here in Buffalo. 586123[/snapback] At the time he was here, Chuck Knox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 And conversely, the fact that we don't have coaches at the higher end of the pay scale leads me to believe that OBD is unwilling to pay for it. I mean, the best name you can give me is Chuck Knox? I believe, in business, you look for the best person available (kind of like how we draft). What they have saved in salary do you think they could have made up in ticket sales for palyoff games (assuming higher pay= better results). 586183[/snapback] i can see how you might reach that conclusion (and you may be right)...but that conclusion does not necessarily follow. Chuck Knox was a big mane in his time. He was at the Marty S. level, or above. Again, I agree you should get the best person available. The assumption is that we hire less than we want to saye $. It could also be Ralph can't tell a good coach from a bad one, so why pay more for something when you can't see the reason why. (That's the "doesn't know s#it from shinola" argument.) I would have to believe that the extra $ the team makes in the playoffs would off-set a coaching pay difference...but, I don't know this for a fact. If that's the case, "being cheap" may be costing Ralph $$$. If he's throwing away money, how can you call him cheap? (Kidding) Your assumption that higher pay = better results, however, is horribly, terribly, unmercifully flawed. But, I would guess, on average, coaches who make big $ do better than coaches who make little $. Knowing which ones before the fact is the real trick. My guess is the $ doesn't make them better. For example, my company could have hired someone for three times what they are paying me and would have received someone FAR worse at the job than I (guaranteed!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seq004 Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 I think it's safe to say that Ralph prefers to shell out money for players and not coaches. I'm not saying it's the wise thing to do but before the Kelly era he had a bad reputation for not paying players their market value and from what I heard three spirits woke him up in the middle of the night and the ghost of Superbowl fugure told him if he didn't start paying players he would never make it to the Superbowl. He then made Jim Kelly the highest payed player in 1986 and shelled out big money to Bennett, Thurm, and Bruce in years to come. If you ask me it was time he shelled out money for a coach also. Why risk it if you really want it? I guess some things will never change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 I think it's safe to say that Ralph prefers to shell out money for players and not coaches. 586215[/snapback] Because there are few coaches that fans will flock to a stadium, to pay see on the sidelines. They will, however, pay money to see great players, even on a losing team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingant Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 I once saw him short change a 1 cent gumball machine. Oh, that was Ralph Benson, oops. 586149[/snapback] Ralph is so cheap that when someone rang their doorbell he made his kid yell "ding dong" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingant Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 Ralph is so cheap that when someone rang their doorbell he made his kid yell "ding dong" 586253[/snapback] Ralph is so cheap that when his plane landed in Buffalo, he said, "well, there goes $5 down the drain for flight insurance". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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