VABills Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 I know, I am probably late, but I have ignored the news lately. But I just heard that over 80 Democrats were recipients of Abrahamoff money. Wow, Pot meet Kettle. http://www.capitaleye.org/abramoff_recips.asp?sort=N Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 I know, I am probably late, but I have ignored the news lately. But I just heard that over 80 Democrats were recipients of Abrahamoff money. Wow, Pot meet Kettle. http://www.capitaleye.org/abramoff_recips.asp?sort=N 584284[/snapback] I am waiting for the "yeah...Dems may do it, but Republicans are worse" response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 shhh, don't tell the BushBad! crowd. you'll ruin their buzz man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EC-Bills Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 I know, I am probably late, but I have ignored the news lately. But I just heard that over 80 Democrats were recipients of Abrahamoff money. Wow, Pot meet Kettle. http://www.capitaleye.org/abramoff_recips.asp?sort=N 584284[/snapback] You mean the Democrats are just as corrupted as the Republicans?!? I am shocked, I tell you, shocked! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PastaJoe Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 Not all of his donations were illegal quid-pro-quo transactions with Congressmen. The majority of both Democrats and Republicans will not be indited for breaking the law. The majority of those that will be indited though will be Republicans. The devil's in the details. There's bad seeds on both sides, but this time it's the Republicans that went overboard with their greed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 Not all of his donations were illegal quid-pro-quo transactions with Congressmen. The majority of both Democrats and Republicans will not be indited for breaking the law. The majority of those that will be indited though will be Republicans. The devil's in the details. There's bad seeds on both sides, but this time it's the Republicans that went overboard with their greed. 584350[/snapback] No disagreement, Pasta. If indictment is proffered and guilt is found, so be it. I was flipping channels this A.M. Howard Dean was on the Today Show, being interviewed by Katy Couric via video link. Howard said there were no, none, nada Democrats that had anything to do with Abramoff. Poor Katy bugged her eyes a bit, and said, "well, we will check into that". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted January 26, 2006 Author Share Posted January 26, 2006 Not all of his donations were illegal quid-pro-quo transactions with Congressmen. The majority of both Democrats and Republicans will not be indited for breaking the law. The majority of those that will be indited though will be Republicans. The devil's in the details. There's bad seeds on both sides, but this time it's the Republicans that went overboard with their greed. 584350[/snapback] Like I said, not really watching the news lately. Just heard this little snippet and found it funny. We'll see who really was "involved" and "greedy". A lot of the hype is probably election year BS, and when the facts come out or don't, my guess is they were either all equally guilty or not guilty (as they will all agree to drop it). But the news media will never allow the facts to come out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PastaJoe Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 But the news media will never allow the facts to come out. 584401[/snapback] Nor will the White House, as in not releasing any requested info about who Abramoff met with and how many times, or the picture of Bush having a sit down meeting with Abramoff's Indian casino client or Bush with Abramoff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderweb Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 No disagreement, Pasta. If indictment is proffered and guilr is found, so be it. I was flipping channels this A.M. Howard Dean was on the Today Show, being interviewed by Katy Couric via video link. Howard said there were no, none, nada Democrats that had anything to do with Abramoff. Poor Katy bugged her eyes a bit, and said, "well, we will check into that". 584390[/snapback] Sadly, there exists a Howard Dean. As much as I dislike the direction we taken under the current administration, the opposition must do better than put up a shmoe like him to be their dissenting voice...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 Sadly, there exists a Howard Dean. As much as I dislike the direction we taken under the current administration, the opposition must do better than put up a shmoe like him to be their dissenting voice...... 584463[/snapback] Indeed. The recent crop of Dem offerings spit on the concept of a diffused, balanced government as at least I feel the Founders wanted. They have lost a degree of character, and proceed to marginalize such as Sen. Lieberman. I hope the reset their compass. Howie and the likes of Hillary, Gore, Leahy, Pelosi. Daschle et al need to learn how to act with decorum. They only stoke flames, not betterment. Sad. People like H. Humphrey, RFK, Wellstone etc. must be spinning in their graves... IMO, their last decent Presidential hopefuls were Mondale and Lieberman. Perhaps McCarthy and McGovern. All of which cared more about providing governance according to their lights, than personal aggrandizement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills_fan Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 Indeed. The recent crop of Dem offerings spit on the concept of a diffused, balanced government as at least I feel the Founders wanted. They have lost a degree of character, and proceed to marginalize such as Sen. Lieberman. I hope the reset their compass. Howie and the likes of Hillary, Gore, Leahy, Pelosi. Daschle et al need to learn how to act with decorum. They only stoke flames, not betterment. Sad. People like H. Humphrey, RFK, Wellstone etc. must be spinning in their graves... IMO, their last decent Presidential hopefuls were Mondale and Lieberman. Perhaps McCarthy and McGovern. All of which cared more about providing governance according to their lights, than personal aggrandizement. You know, its funny....the Democrats have become the party of the disenfranchised...liberals, urbanites, minorities...sure we'll take them all say the Dems. The result is that the Democratic party is completely dysfunctional and without a platform. The Dems have not proposed a meaningful solution to a problem since 1994 (welfare reform). Even the Republicans had the Contract with America that helped them win control of Congress. The Dems have relied solely on bashing the Republicans. Bush proposes Social Security reform, the Dems say his plan is awful. They never propose one of their own. The Dems won't go anywhere until they develop a platform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderweb Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 Indeed. The recent crop of Dem offerings spit on the concept of a diffused, balanced government as at least I feel the Founders wanted. They have lost a degree of character, and proceed to marginalize such as Sen. Lieberman. I hope the reset their compass. Howie and the likes of Hillary, Gore, Leahy, Pelosi. Daschle et al need to learn how to act with decorum. They only stoke flames, not betterment. Sad. People like H. Humphrey, RFK, Wellstone etc. must be spinning in their graves... IMO, their last decent Presidential hopefuls were Mondale and Lieberman. Perhaps McCarthy and McGovern. All of which cared more about providing governance according to their lights, than personal aggrandizement. 584568[/snapback] In so much as I agree in return, if decorum means to replicate the manner of DeLay, Lott, etc., then we're all missing the point. If shrills were to be counted, I'd agree that the Dems have the current edge, but isn't that always the case as it applies to the minority party? History clearly states it is. The meanness and the attacks of one's personal character has never been just a single parties tendency. They both play the game and it drives good people away, both in terms of who runs for office, and with regard to voter turnout. I'll alway maintain that right or left extremes, or even heavily leaning toward one or the other, is a negative that we as a country must avoid, even if we seem incapable of doing so now. Moderate, inclusive, thoughtful, pragmatic action, and with a vision for the future would better serve this nation. We also must get by the immediate gratification syndrome. Sometimes the best solutions or agendas take time to reach fulfillment. Discussing politics, in general, usually raises my blood pressure and rarely serves any real effect or change on even individuals, let alone our greater society. Yet, I perservere. I believe strongly as long as the current state of politics in the USA remains, meaning that as long as our elected officials spend far more time on gaining and maintaining their power, rather than on the real business of America, we're going to continue our downward slide as it pertains to economics, health care, our standard of living, etc. Nothing will go unscathed. This board alone only furthers my point with the name calling, ridiculous clinging to beliefs in definace of all logic and fact, the spinning, etc. Again, neither side here escapes from this and this will continue to be the roadblock that prevents us from properly addressing the real issues of the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 (edited) In so much as I agree in return, if decorum means to replicate the manner of DeLay, Lott, etc., then we're all missing the point. If shrills were to be counted, I'd agree that the Dems have the current edge, but isn't that always the case as it applies to the minority party? History clearly states it is. The meanness and the attacks of one's personal character has never been just a single parties tendency. They both play the game and it drives good people away, both in terms of who runs for office, and with regard to voter turnout. I'll alway maintain that right or left extremes, or even heavily leaning toward one or the other, is a negative that we as a country must avoid, even if we seem incapable of doing so now. Moderate, inclusive, thoughtful, pragmatic action, and with a vision for the future would better serve this nation. We also must get by the immediate gratification syndrome. Sometimes the best solutions or agendas take time to reach fulfillment. Biscussing politics, in general, usually raises my blood pressure and rarely serves any real effect or change on even individuals, let alone our greater society. Yet, I perservere. I believe strongly as long as the current state of politics in the USA remains, meaning that as long as our elected officials spend far more time on gaining and maintaining their power, rather than on the real business of America, we're going to continue our downward slide as it pertains to economics, health care, our standard of living, etc. Nothing will go unscathed. This board alone only furthers my point with the name calling, ridiculous clinging to beliefs in definace of all logic and fact, the spinning, etc. Again, neither side here escapes from this and this will continue to be the roadblock that prevents us from properly addressing the real issues of the day. 584613[/snapback] You have put forth a thoughtful post. I would never say, that in my days, things were all that spiffy. What I do see, is the recent aggrandizement, the imparting of "star power" to elected officials..seems to be very much a popularity contest thanks to visual persona. Our rapid communications is a two-edged blade; comtemplation has been seemingly trumped by expediency and a thrill of the moment. Believe me, there were PLENTY of crumbs in the earlier days of my life. Many, many venous types. We The People have culpability. Good parents watch out for their young, knowing that in the young mind, what shines and glitters is what is grasped for, and behind the charm is the fishhook. Many adults are going for that glitter nowadays - in politics or in other things. That is not what adults should do. It is up to the young folk to right the ship. Not the 20 year-old folks, mind. The 30, 40, 50 year-olds... It is your world, to change; no longer mine. I know you shall succeed. FWIW, you shall get my support - and crotchety advice. Edited January 26, 2006 by stuckincincy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 This board alone only furthers my point with the name calling, ridiculous clinging to beliefs in definace of all logic and fact, the spinning, etc. Again, neither side here escapes from this and this will continue to be the roadblock that prevents us from properly addressing the real issues of the day. 584613[/snapback] You mean "Cindy Sheehan's still around!" or "Flightsuit! Halliburton! Nose pick!" aren't real issues of the day? It's not just on this board. After Katrina, I had discussions with people experienced in disaster relief and FEMA operations about how the systemic and logistical problems that influenced the relief effort were both apolitical and unavoidable in that situation...and still they had to add "By the way, 'your' [sic] boy Bush looks like a !@#$ing idiot through all this." People who knew the root causes of events still had to blame it on their favorite punching bag for the sake of appearances! I think America, as a society, is pretty much doomed. People all over seem totally incapable of a deep understanding of anything...even on the extraordinarily rare occasions they discuss real issues over bull sh-- like the media's "Camp Casey" or spotted owl coverage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 It is up to the young folk to right the ship. Not the 20 year-old folks, mind. The 30, 40, 50 year-olds... It is your world, to change; no longer mine. FWIW, you shall get my support - and crotchety advice. 584653[/snapback] Ya right! Thanks for the lemon... Between what the Greatest Generation and the Boomers left... I don't want it. It is broke... And even people like me realize when something is broke this bad... You just sh*t can it. Think that'll ever happen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 Ya right! Thanks for the lemon... Between what the Greatest Generation and the Boomers left... I don't want it. It is broke... And even people like me realize when something is broke this bad... You just sh*t can it. Think that'll ever happen? 584690[/snapback] It's not broke that bad. At risk of lecturing you (which I don't mind), look around. Most of your fellow citizens may seem like so many rats. Well, here's where you come in, to do your part. Beat a gentle, small tattoo on their bean when you see apathy or snotty deportment. Don't get shot, though. Baby steps. Push come to shove, most Americans aren't inclined to harshness and actually are decent sorts. For example, I have pummeled you from time to time and the results are so far reasonably encouraging. Like I said - I'll be pushing daisies anon and it's your ballgame, to decide what's gonna be what... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPS Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 Here's another perspective: democrats? Like many arguments here, it depends on what you mean by the word "is".... I do find it interesting, after a quick perusal of the subjects on the first two pages here, that the first post about Abramoff is the tried and true--and most common argument here, "the dems did it too" or "the dems are worse." Abramoff is closely tied to the republican leadership and the White House. This is truly a republican scandal. That said, I don't trust either party. I think the dems play the money game too; it's just that the republicans have taken it up quite a few notches. K Street Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 I am waiting for the "yeah...Dems may do it, but Republicans are worse" response. 584304[/snapback] Are we allowed to differentiate between legal and illegal contibutions or would that be too technical or partisan of a distinction? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 It's not broke that bad. At risk of lecturing you (which I don't mind), look around. Most of your fellow citizens may seem like so many rats. Well, here's where you come in, to do your part. Beat a gentle, small tattoo on their bean when you see apathy or snotty deportment. Don't get shot, though. Baby steps. Push come to shove, most Americans aren't inclined to harshness and actually are decent sorts. For example, I have pummeled you from time to time and the results are so far reasonably encouraging. Like I said - I'll be pushing daisies anon and it's your ballgame, to decide what's gonna be what... 584722[/snapback] Thanks for the sage advice. Agreed... But, don't trust me with that... I would bring back the WPA. I have always said, you are the one conservative here that I can always find a way to agree with. But just don't leave me with crap... You still got a lot of pummeling to do out there too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 Are we allowed to differentiate between legal and illegal contibutions or would that be too technical or partisan of a distinction? 584768[/snapback] Depends. I lived in western PA during the days of "AbScam John" Murtha, D-PA, Johnstown. IIRC, he was a so-called "unindicted co-conspiritor" and given a pat on the head by the Dem-controlled House The tv coverage of him stuffing the cash in his jacket was pretty funny to view - "a mere mistake, a plan to uncover corruption"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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