Please Stop

[Casey D]

The discussion here is as fact based as the Administration's claim that Iraq had WMD. Think about the logic.

 

Someone says Ralph is cheap, ergo every decision made is based on money. We hire bad coaches because they are cheap. Bob Matthews writes that why not hire Martz instead of Fairchild..because Ralph is cheap of course.

 

First, I have seen no data on what anyone is being paid. So like WMD, no one has any facts. For all I know DJ is getting $3M a year. So all the talk about dollars is simply speculation.

 

Second, did anyone ever think that a guy like Martz might not fit into what Levy is trying to build here-- a high character team with coaches who are good teachers and an organization who treats its employees like family in a tough world, not just as a piece of meat. Look at the hires we have as coaches so far, good people, good teachers. Maybe, just maybe, that's why they are being hired--good coaches, good people, good team players.

 

Third, the hires are not scrubs. Koller turned down NO to come here, by accounts Fairchild turned down the Jets. Fairchild was tutored under Martz who, like him or not, is a recognized excellent offensive mind.

 

People have to get over their obsession with money. It's not yours to begin with--if you want to spend millions on coaches then go get a job, earn a lot of money and buy a football team and overpay for names. But it does not mean that the Bills--Levy in particular-- don't have plan. And Levy, like Churchill, is going to stick to that plan, whiny critics who really know nothing about football be damned.

[mead107]

money, way to much talk about it . i would be the water guy for nothing . lots of people on this board all want to be the GM or coach for nothing and some say they could be a better lineman or QB . we could run a whole team for nothing with all the excellent bright minds on this board .

[flyingant]

The discussion here is as fact based as the Administration's claim that Iraq had WMD.  Think about the logic.

 

Someone says Ralph is cheap, ergo every decision made is based on money.  We hire bad coaches because they are cheap.  Bob Matthews writes that why not hire Martz instead of Fairchild..because Ralph is cheap of course.

 

First, I have seen no data on what anyone is being paid.  So like WMD, no one has any facts.  For all I know DJ is getting $3M a year. So all the talk about dollars is simply speculation.

 

Second, did anyone ever think that a guy like Martz might not fit into what Levy is trying to build here-- a high character team with coaches who are good teachers and an organization who treats its employees like family in a tough world, not just as a piece of meat.  Look at the hires we have as coaches so far, good people, good teachers. Maybe, just maybe, that's why they are being hired--good coaches, good people, good team players.

 

Third, the hires are not scrubs.  Koller turned down NO to come here, by accounts Fairchild turned down the Jets. Fairchild was tutored under Martz who, like him or not, is a recognized excellent offensive mind.

 

People have to get over their obsession with money.  It's not yours to begin with--if you want to spend millions on coaches then go get a job, earn a lot of money and buy a football team and overpay for names.  But it does not mean that the Bills--Levy in particular-- don't have plan.  And Levy, like Churchill, is going to stick to that plan, whiny critics who really know nothing about football be damned.

584257[/snapback]

 

Maybe the Bills should have raised ticket prices to match the NFL average, or maybe even above the NFL average. That way, with the exta money, we could afford "better" coaches. Oh wait.... we'd complain about that too.

[BRH]

People have to get over their obsession with money.  It's not yours to begin with--if you want to spend millions on coaches then go get a job, earn a lot of money and buy a football team and overpay for names.

584257[/snapback]

Amen. And I love how people who say Ralph is cheap then turn around and B word about the team raising the LOWEST ticket prices in the NFL by a few bucks.

 

Not only that, but if Ralph was truly cheap the Bills would have been gone a good goddamn long time ago.

[VABills]

Yeah, we'll see when it comes time to pay for Offensive Linemen. Ralph has shown time and again he'll pay for "big name" players, to help boost jersey and marketing reveue, but it's tough to market big fat oline guys, and therefore he never ponies up money over the longhaul. If he breaks out the purse and signs Bentley or Hutch, I'll say I am sorry, but otherwise, we will always get tier 2 guys on the line, unless we draft them, and therefore pay the "lower" rookie salaries.

[d_wag]

Yeah, we'll see when it comes time to pay for Offensive Linemen.  Ralph has shown time and again he'll pay for "big name" players, to help boost jersey and marketing reveue, but it's tough to market big fat oline guys, and therefore he never ponies up money over the longhaul.  If he breaks out the purse and signs Bentley or Hutch, I'll say I am sorry, but otherwise, we will always get tier 2 guys on the line, unless we draft them, and therefore pay the "lower" rookie salaries.

584316[/snapback]

 

i beg to differ..........he paid big money to brown and fina

[VABills]

i beg to differ..........he paid big money to brown and fina

584323[/snapback]

No he cut them in the years, when the big moneys were due.

[RJ (not THAT RJ)]

No he cut them in the years, when the big moneys were due.

584327[/snapback]

 

 

Not true, not true. Yes, they were eventually cut, but they were paid large dollars up front and in their final years. There is no evidence that RW specifically has failed to pay OL men. Heck, remember the efforts to go looking for FA linemen. Joe Panos was not cheap (worthless, yes, but not cheap), nor was Trey Teague. I understand our frustration with the failures of the past years, but it is a mistake--practially and psychologically--to try to convince ourselves that these failures are the product of some ingrained flaw in Wilson. Players and coaches and GMs sometimes pan out, sometimes do not. That's why they play the games. Fans can choose to live in fear or live in hope. I invite all of you to join me in hope--at least until bad things happen again.

 

Go Bills!

[Casey D]

Not true, not true. Yes, they were eventually cut, but they were paid large dollars up front and in their final years. There is no evidence that RW specifically has failed to pay OL men. Heck, remember the efforts to go looking for FA linemen. Joe Panos was not cheap (worthless, yes, but not cheap), nor was Trey Teague. I understand our frustration with the failures of the past years, but it is a mistake--practially and psychologically--to try to convince ourselves that these failures are the product of some ingrained flaw in Wilson. Players and coaches and GMs sometimes pan out, sometimes do not. That's why they play the games. Fans can choose to live in fear or live in hope. I invite all of you to join me in hope--at least until bad things happen again.

 

Go Bills!

584333[/snapback]

 

I like that.

[d_wag]

No he cut them in the years, when the big moneys were due.

584327[/snapback]

 

then how do you explain the large dead cap hits we took to get rid of them? dead cap = signing bonus!

[macaroni]

and, if I remember correctly ......... the highest paid member on this years team just happened to be a lineman.

[Poeticlaw]

then how do you explain the large dead cap hits we took to get rid of them? dead cap = signing bonus!

584358[/snapback]

 

 

Ok there seems to be some confusion-First the Salary Cap is the NFL revenue sharing program everyteam has this to spend on their Players for the their team. It doesnt effect the organiztions bottom line. That is the reason why teams arent afraid to cut layers provide the hit isnt too high but of their rebuilding they might want to take it in one big hit and build up from there.

 

However, The cost of the administration and the coaching staff does come off the organizations bottom line. The top 5 head coaches are averaging aroung 4 mil a year and are from essentially winning organizations. The rest of the leauge is around 1 mil.( so who really controls the team the 10 mil qb or the 1 mil head coach?) and the assistants are paid even less. In reference to Ralph the people who report on them or write on them take his past history of who he has hired for the amount he has hired and who he wont let go because of contractual obligations to pay.

 

Beyond all that above everything i have read has be tranparent to me Ralph is cheap. They forced MM to quit so not to pay him his 3 mill. Sherman/Hasselet would not be hired because of the min demand of 3.2 mil a year they would command and most things I read besides the Marv factor stated that Joauro would come at 1.5 mil a year 1.7mil savings over the rest. The have also mentioned and the names i dont rember at the moment certain coordinators that we wouldnt be able to get because of the $$ they would command versus the money that would be paid.

 

I hate to say this, unless god forbid Ralph moves on to the afterlife we are stuck in meodricy of todays football that has clearly passed the old timers by.

[RJ (not THAT RJ)]

I like that.

584354[/snapback]

 

 

Thanks for the endorsement, Casey. Woof!

 

Poeticlaw, you are also welcome to come live in hope as well... Save the "realism" for things that are real.

 

Go Bills!

[d_wag]

They forced MM to quit so not to pay him his 3 mill.

584386[/snapback]

 

how did they force MM to quit?

[Casey D]

Ok there seems to be some confusion-First the Salary Cap is the NFL revenue sharing program everyteam has this to spend on their Players for the their team. It doesnt effect the organiztions bottom line.  That is the reason why teams arent afraid to cut layers provide the hit isnt too high but of their rebuilding they might want to take it in one big hit and build up from there.

 

However, The cost of the administration and the coaching staff does come off the organizations bottom line. The top 5 head coaches are averaging aroung 4 mil a year and are from essentially winning organizations. The rest of the leauge is around 1 mil.( so who really controls the team the 10 mil qb or the 1 mil head coach?) and the assistants are paid even less. In reference to Ralph the people who report on them or write on them take his past history of who he has hired for the amount he has hired and who he wont let go because of contractual obligations to pay.

 

Beyond all that above everything i have read has be tranparent to me Ralph is cheap. They forced MM to quit so not to pay him his 3 mill. Sherman/Hasselet would not be hired because of the min demand of 3.2 mil a year they would command and most things I read besides the Marv factor stated that Joauro would come at 1.5 mil a year 1.7mil savings over the rest. The have also mentioned and the names i dont rember at the moment certain coordinators that we wouldnt be able to get because of the $$ they would command versus the money that would be paid.

 

I hate to say this, unless god forbid Ralph moves on to the afterlife we are stuck in meodricy of todays football that has clearly passed the old timers by.

584386[/snapback]

 

Your analysis is remininiscent of Colin Powell at the UN in February 2003--remember those mobile chemical weapons facilities.

 

You simply repeat rumors that have no factual basis, but because someone else said it and you are simply repeating it, you present it as a fact. RW said money was no object in hiring coaches. You say he is a liar. Your proof is what? You do not know that DJ is making $1.5-1.7 M--show me how you know that.

 

Show me proof that RW mad MM quit to save money.

 

How do you know that Haslett and Sherman were passed over because of money. Show me a single fact--not surmiee and speculation--to support that.

 

At bottom, you have a thesis that RW is cheap, and you believe that as an article of faith, fact be damned. Do you work for the Administration?

 

As to your discussion about the bottom line-- I am not sure what you are talking about. The salary cap has nothing directly to do with revenue sharing in the NFL. The NFLPA negotiated for it to ensure certain % of revenues were paid in salary, and the owners want it to keep a lid on player costs and to keep the competitive playing field more or less equal(as to this last point, revenue sharing does this too, but in a different way)

 

Money paid to a player, a coach or a peanut vendor comes off the "bottom line." If what you are saying is that hits against the salary cap when a player is cut after having gotten a bonus--from accelerated player bonus amortization--is not real money against the bottom line is correct, it is merely an accounting rule in the NFL. But what does that have to do with whether we paid OL a lot of money, which was the issue on the board. Because when the Bills paid those big signing bonuses, I can assure you that was real money.

[IDBillzFan]

I started to take issue with this, but the reality is, in the end you're right. Just because people like Sullivan call Ralph cheap, or people like Bill and Hill and Kerry publicly state Iraq has WMDs, doesn't necessarily make any of them right.

[KRT88]

I won't stop until I see evidence otherwise.

 

In my opinion, the rising cost of coaches is hurting smaller market teams like Buffalo but please, the Bills like to hire on the cheap.

 

Why did they pick two first time candiates rather than grabbing a veteran coach. After the Williams disaster, they needed a veteran but nope, we hire baby Mike. Why, he came super cheap!

 

The Bills generate about $178 million in revenue each year, which is on the low end. Washington generates more than $250 million a year, Dallas even more. The Bills shell out about 100-125 million in player salary and bonus money each year. They likely spend a couple million on travel expensives, probably a million or two in scouting, travel expensives related to scouting etc. However, they can't spend $6-8 million on the coaching staff? Maybe now they will because coaches salaries have risen so much. I am not asking Ralph to be Dan Synder but when the last three head coaches all made well below the league average, that says something.

 

Heck, Erie county pays for Stadium maintenance, so there a cost the team doesn't have to worry about. Ralph makes $10-15 million a year easy, probably more. He could afford to double what he spends and make sure the Bills have great, highly qualified coaches and not the left overs.

[apuszczalowski]

Cause spending more money is going to make us so much better?

 

Who cares what Ralph pays his Coaches as long as they do their job and win.

 

Maybe they hired MM cause they thought they had a that next great up and coming head coach instead of going for a retread. Or maybe they didn't want to pay much money for a first time head coach like Weiss when they new that their was a (small) chance he could be a flop.

[Poeticlaw]

Your analysis is remininiscent of Colin Powell at the UN in February 2003--remember those mobile chemical weapons facilities.

 

You simply repeat rumors that have no factual basis, but because someone else said it and you are simply repeating it, you present it as a fact.  RW said money was no object in hiring coaches.  You say he is a liar.  Your proof is what?  You do not know that DJ is making $1.5-1.7 M--show me how you know that.

 

Show me proof that RW mad MM quit to save money.

 

How do you know that Haslett and Sherman were passed over because of money.  Show me a single fact--not surmiee and speculation--to support that.

 

At bottom, you have a thesis that RW is cheap, and you believe that as an article of faith, fact be damned.  Do you work for the Administration?

 

As to your discussion about the bottom line-- I am not sure what you are talking about. The salary cap has nothing directly to do with revenue sharing in the NFL.  The NFLPA negotiated for it to ensure certain % of revenues were paid in salary, and the owners want it to keep a lid on player costs and to keep the competitive playing field more or less equal(as to this last point, revenue sharing does this too, but in a different way)

 

Money paid to a player, a coach or a peanut vendor comes off the "bottom line."  If what you are saying is that hits against the salary cap when a player is cut after having gotten a bonus--from accelerated player bonus amortization--is not real money against the bottom line is correct, it is merely an accounting rule in the NFL.  But what does that have to do with whether we paid OL a lot of money, which was the issue on the board.  Because when the Bills paid those big signing bonuses, I can assure you that was real money.

584424[/snapback]

 

http://www.askthecommish.com/salarycap/faq.asp

 

This should enlighten you on the FACT that the salary cap IS a revenue sharing Program equally distributed to all the teams!!!!

 

As for the rest, do i present what i wrote as facts not neccessarily I am not an investigative reporter However this is an opionated forumn in whch we all have our opions and back it up with what ever facts we have which is journalism, sorry but that is the fact.

 

No proof of MM being forced out yes truly speculation but, you have to so that the whole thing looks rather conspicuos. MM was put into a failing postion. Marv said that he and rapl and MM were all going to sit down evaluate and hire MM staff togehter. THAT is a fact based on Press conferences. Raplh stated he is not repsonsible for who MM hires or fires for his staff that his MM decision.RALPH flat out lied that IS a Fact see the press conference.

 

DO i know waht Jauron is making for a fact no I am specualation. However, we should learn that in time and if it is whats stated what does that prove to you???

 

The fact is that coaches have a budget setup by the president of the orginaztion and that makes it Ralph call on how much can be spent on the caoching staff.

 

Howevr, you have the right tp your opinion that you dont have any facts to base it on either.

[RJ (not THAT RJ)]

http://www.askthecommish.com/salarycap/faq.asp

 

 

Howevr, you have the right tp your opinion that you dont have any facts to base it on either.

584464[/snapback]

 

 

True, we all have a right to our opinions, but I always wonder why so many people think that having an unfounded opinion that is negative is automatically better than having a positive or hopeful view.... And yes, I know all of the "because life sucks and it makes sense to expect the worst" arguments. But does that really make sense in dealing with something as fun but meaningless as sports? I mean, I get as worked up as the next fan about the games, but I know enough to step away and not actually encourage myself (and others) to have agida.

 

It's like the difference between people who watch Soap Operas because they enjoy the stories and people who actually talk about the characters as if they are real people and get angry at them....