Buftex Posted January 26, 2006 Posted January 26, 2006 As for bates not being unemployed long, consider that the DC position are almost all filled, and sitting out a year will not get you better money next year, unless he gets an HC job. I haven't heard of him being offered jobs by other clubs yet. I think he will take the position, then spring board to an HC opening next year. 584536[/snapback] There are more jobs available than the ESPN article indicated. You have the Jets, Raiders, Texans and Bills. I have heard that the Texans were interested in him...
MadBuffaloDisease Posted January 26, 2006 Author Posted January 26, 2006 There are more jobs available than the ESPN article indicated. You have the Jets, Raiders, Texans and Bills. I have heard that the Texans were interested in him... The Raiders have a DC who just signed an extension. And the Texans will be using 2 coaches to be their DC, which is odd, but whatever. I thought the Jets needed one as well, but you'd think Clayton would know.
BADOLBILZ Posted January 26, 2006 Posted January 26, 2006 You think there is something that can be done on OBD that won't get a bunch of negative posts????? 584171[/snapback] Actually, give Bills fans proven quality and they fall all over themselves to praise it. If the Bills were ever able to hire a guy like Parcells or another top coach, there would be a parade. This junk about Bills fans being too negative and criticizing every move is directly related to the Bills making one bad decision after another. The truth is, Levy/Jauron/Fairchild are not exceptional hires. They should be viewed skeptically. Gregg Williams and Mularkey came in and a lot of bluster was made by management about how good these guys were under the surface, and they proved to be exactly as they actually were ON the surface......inexperienced and overmatched. On the surface, Levy is inexperienced and very old for a GM, Jauron is a proven loser and Fairchild is inexperienced and DARE I SAY.....likely overmatched against Belichick and Saban's defenses? Forgive us for being realistic. This ain't the NFC Norris, you can't march Dick Jauron in here and expect him to beat the best. And no, Dick Jauron is not the next Bill Belichick. Belichick got a second chance because he was an absolutely DOMINANT defensive coordinator. Dick Jauron is just a guy who was an unsuccessful HC before and was a decent coordinator/assistant. If he's the next Marv Levy, he'll just get his asss handed to him because he won't have Kelly/Bruce/Thurman and co. and he won't be coaching against Rich Kotite, Ron Meyer, Dick McPherson or Bruce Coslett.
Kultarr Posted January 26, 2006 Posted January 26, 2006 Actually, give Bills fans proven quality and they fall all over themselves to praise it. If the Bills were ever able to hire a guy like Parcells or another top coach, there would be a parade. This junk about Bills fans being too negative and criticizing every move is directly related to the Bills making one bad decision after another. The truth is, Levy/Jauron/Fairchild are not exceptional hires. They should be viewed skeptically. Gregg Williams and Mularkey came in and a lot of bluster was made by management about how good these guys were under the surface, and they proved to be exactly as they actually were ON the surface......inexperienced and overmatched. On the surface, Levy is inexperienced and very old for a GM, Jauron is a proven loser and Fairchild is inexperienced and DARE I SAY.....likely overmatched against Belichick and Saban's defenses? Forgive us for being realistic. This ain't the NFC Norris, you can't march Dick Jauron in here and expect him to beat the best. And no, Dick Jauron is not the next Bill Belichick. Belichick got a second chance because he was an absolutely DOMINANT defensive coordinator. Dick Jauron is just a guy who was an unsuccessful HC before and was a decent coordinator/assistant. If he's the next Marv Levy, he'll just get his asss handed to him because he won't have Kelly/Bruce/Thurman and co. and he won't be coaching against Rich Kotite, Ron Meyer, Dick McPherson or Bruce Coslett. 584957[/snapback] Not to take the sails out of his wind or anything.
Wiz Posted January 27, 2006 Posted January 27, 2006 Actually, give Bills fans proven quality and they fall all over themselves to praise it. If the Bills were ever able to hire a guy like Parcells or another top coach, there would be a parade. This junk about Bills fans being too negative and criticizing every move is directly related to the Bills making one bad decision after another. The truth is, Levy/Jauron/Fairchild are not exceptional hires. They should be viewed skeptically. Gregg Williams and Mularkey came in and a lot of bluster was made by management about how good these guys were under the surface, and they proved to be exactly as they actually were ON the surface......inexperienced and overmatched. On the surface, Levy is inexperienced and very old for a GM, Jauron is a proven loser and Fairchild is inexperienced and DARE I SAY.....likely overmatched against Belichick and Saban's defenses? Forgive us for being realistic. This ain't the NFC Norris, you can't march Dick Jauron in here and expect him to beat the best. And no, Dick Jauron is not the next Bill Belichick. Belichick got a second chance because he was an absolutely DOMINANT defensive coordinator. Dick Jauron is just a guy who was an unsuccessful HC before and was a decent coordinator/assistant. If he's the next Marv Levy, he'll just get his asss handed to him because he won't have Kelly/Bruce/Thurman and co. and he won't be coaching against Rich Kotite, Ron Meyer, Dick McPherson or Bruce Coslett. 584957[/snapback] Extremely well put. Although the negativity wears on you after a while, I would prefer to listen to realists than cheerleaders putting an artificially happy face on what appear to be lousy moves.
BADOLBILZ Posted January 27, 2006 Posted January 27, 2006 We need more TALENT on both sides of the ball! 584961[/snapback] Actually, the more talent we get the more outraged we will be when Belichick beats us with 6th round CB's and guys cut by other teams. With few exceptions, the playoffs are about the best coaches beating the best coaches.
SDS Posted January 27, 2006 Posted January 27, 2006 Actually, the more talent we get the more outraged we will be when Belichick beats us with 6th round CB's and guys cut by other teams. With few exceptions, the playoffs are about the best coaches beating the best coaches. 584980[/snapback] BB is going to upgrade his corners from just using WR's to fill in? Crap!
Bear Posted January 27, 2006 Posted January 27, 2006 Actually, give Bills fans proven quality and they fall all over themselves to praise it. If the Bills were ever able to hire a guy like Parcells or another top coach, there would be a parade. This junk about Bills fans being too negative and criticizing every move is directly related to the Bills making one bad decision after another. The truth is, Levy/Jauron/Fairchild are not exceptional hires. They should be viewed skeptically. Gregg Williams and Mularkey came in and a lot of bluster was made by management about how good these guys were under the surface, and they proved to be exactly as they actually were ON the surface......inexperienced and overmatched. On the surface, Levy is inexperienced and very old for a GM, Jauron is a proven loser and Fairchild is inexperienced and DARE I SAY.....likely overmatched against Belichick and Saban's defenses? Forgive us for being realistic. This ain't the NFC Norris, you can't march Dick Jauron in here and expect him to beat the best. And no, Dick Jauron is not the next Bill Belichick. Belichick got a second chance because he was an absolutely DOMINANT defensive coordinator. Dick Jauron is just a guy who was an unsuccessful HC before and was a decent coordinator/assistant. If he's the next Marv Levy, he'll just get his asss handed to him because he won't have Kelly/Bruce/Thurman and co. and he won't be coaching against Rich Kotite, Ron Meyer, Dick McPherson or Bruce Coslett. 584957[/snapback] My point wasn't so much that everyone would critize everything that happens, but there are ALWAYS people who will critize, no matter what is done. If Parcells was hired, there would be a handful of people who would be shouting about the new found Belichick stat. As for what you say about Jauron, I agree that fans have every right to be skeptical of the hire, but the way people are acting right now is insane. The biggest problem I have is that everyone seems to be comparing him the the "Great Sherman of Green Bay", but I just don't see what all the excitement was about with him. Yes, his record was better, but it is very hard to honestly compare the two situations that they were in. And while other teams weren't clamoring to get to Jauron, there was no line for Sherman either. Unlike most here, I do not think we "settled" for Jauron. I truly do believe that he was hired because Marv/Ralph believe he can get the job done. Now whether he can or not is truly up in the air, but I just can't stand the comparisons to Sherman. And looking around the league, there were no "great" hires this off-season. The coaches simply were not out there. Really, the only HC hiring this season that I think is better than ours is Kubiak in Houston, and that is nothing more than my opinion. I don't have a problem with people being "realistic", so no forgiveness needed.
nero47 Posted January 27, 2006 Posted January 27, 2006 That is exactly the point. Ralph is interviewing guys like Capers, Caldwell, April, and Jauron....any coincidence that all have no real track record of success, to base their salary demands on? Martz (not interviewed) and Sherman (interviewed, but not hired) would have fit the criteria of HC's with experience, some success, and would likely command a much higher salary than Jauron. Believe me, Jauron, of all the guys interviewed, would have been my choice too. If it were up to me, though (and I know it is not), I might have interviewed 6 completely different candidates.... If Ralph really was willing to pay coaches the market value for established coaches, he wouldn't be hiring guys like Gregg Williams, Mike Mularkey, or Dick Jauron. That is not even a slap at those three guys, just a fact. Instead of hiring Williams, he could have at least made an attempt to bring in a Parcells, or even a friggin' Joe Gibbs. Sure, they were retired at the time, but Washington and Dallas were able to make an offer big enough, they couldn't refuse. Ralph doesn't work like that. I am sure that he doesn't have as much money as Jerry Jones or Dan Snyder, but to pretrend that money has not played a factor in deciding who will coach in Buffalo, or not, is pretty naive. I am sure it is not so much that Ralph is cheap, but he is not going to pay top dollar, because he is not likely to make back as much as he would like, with the Bills current set up, in Buffalo. It is likely a sound business decision. In business, the object isn't only to make a profit, you set a percentage of how much profit you want to make, anything less, is a waste of your efforts. Every business that goes out of business, does not do so, because they are not making any money. They go out of business, because they are not making enough money.... 584919[/snapback] Joe Gibbs would not have gone back to coach anyone but the skins, and Parcells can no longer be re.lied upon to stay long enough to get the super bowl win. As for others to interview, I can't think of anyone else with a proven track recordin the NFL that was available. Most of the other HC's hired were previously assistant's and guys like sherman, haslett, and others were not hired by those teams either. I don't believe it was all about the money. Yes, businesses are set up to make a profit, to get the most bang for the buck, but I have watched many teams throw their money around like drunken sailors and reached the holy grail, like Miami, Jets, Redskins, etc. Money doesn't always bring the desired results, whther spent on coaches or players.
SDS Posted January 27, 2006 Posted January 27, 2006 Actually, give Bills fans proven quality and they fall all over themselves to praise it. If the Bills were ever able to hire a guy like Parcells or another top coach, there would be a parade. This junk about Bills fans being too negative and criticizing every move is directly related to the Bills making one bad decision after another. The truth is, Levy/Jauron/Fairchild are not exceptional hires. They should be viewed skeptically. Gregg Williams and Mularkey came in and a lot of bluster was made by management about how good these guys were under the surface, and they proved to be exactly as they actually were ON the surface......inexperienced and overmatched. On the surface, Levy is inexperienced and very old for a GM, Jauron is a proven loser and Fairchild is inexperienced and DARE I SAY.....likely overmatched against Belichick and Saban's defenses? Forgive us for being realistic. This ain't the NFC Norris, you can't march Dick Jauron in here and expect him to beat the best. And no, Dick Jauron is not the next Bill Belichick. Belichick got a second chance because he was an absolutely DOMINANT defensive coordinator. Dick Jauron is just a guy who was an unsuccessful HC before and was a decent coordinator/assistant. If he's the next Marv Levy, he'll just get his asss handed to him because he won't have Kelly/Bruce/Thurman and co. and he won't be coaching against Rich Kotite, Ron Meyer, Dick McPherson or Bruce Coslett. 584957[/snapback] Damn! That is exactly what I would have said if I kew what I was talking about! (and wasn't such a smart ass).
nero47 Posted January 27, 2006 Posted January 27, 2006 Extremely well put. Although the negativity wears on you after a while, I would prefer to listen to realists than cheerleaders putting an artificially happy face on what appear to be lousy moves. 584970[/snapback] Lousy moves will present themselves, if they are, next summer and fall. I believe that all the moves since MM left are going along well. Although not enamored by the coaches at this point, I believe we are beginning to see an organization form. Ralph and Marv are putting together a management team, allowing the decision makers to be where they need to be to make decisions. This is ML's way, delegate - let scouts do the scouting, let financial people worry about the cap, and let the coach decide on his coaching philosophy and get the coaches and players he needs and wants to execute that philosophy. And they didn't even ask our permission.
BADOLBILZ Posted January 27, 2006 Posted January 27, 2006 Extremely well put. Although the negativity wears on you after a while, I would prefer to listen to realists than cheerleaders putting an artificially happy face on what appear to be lousy moves. 584970[/snapback] There is a bright side. I feel confident I can upgrade my season tickets now. Seriously. The team will be drafting high a lot in the near future and that will hopefully set up the next head coach for success. In hiring a bad head coach and putting him in a well coached division, it will be easier for management to cut him loose rather than having a guy who wins just enough to save his job. Hopefully, in three years or so, a great head coach will be available and the Bills will get him. Until then, we can hope for a miracle and when that fails we can focus on the draft and at least vent our frustration here. Basically, it's more of the same except without the false hope.
BADOLBILZ Posted January 27, 2006 Posted January 27, 2006 I truly do believe that he was hired because Marv/Ralph believe he can get the job done. 585014[/snapback] So do I.
Bear Posted January 27, 2006 Posted January 27, 2006 So do I. 585041[/snapback] Yeah, well....at least we have the same reaction to that part of it.
AKC Posted January 27, 2006 Posted January 27, 2006 On the surface, Levy is inexperienced and very old for a GM, Jauron is a proven loser and Fairchild is inexperienced and DARE I SAY.....likely overmatched against Belichick and Saban's defenses? Forgive us for being realistic. 584957[/snapback] Since I haven't landed on a hard position regarding where we are, I'd be interested in having you entertain a slightly different position: Outside of Saban's 64 and 65 AFL campaigns Marv Levy has overseen all of our most successful seasons. He's stayed associated with the game and made no secret of his continued fondness for the game. He isn't taking the job of HC that requires 90 hours of work every week all year long, plus he's a proven delegator. Could his very good record with the Bills and continued focus on the NFL offer us any hope that he may still understand the game at a fundamental level better than generally assumed and that this could lead to the coaching staff he's assembled being much better as a unit than the sum of its individual parts suggests?
BADOLBILZ Posted January 27, 2006 Posted January 27, 2006 I believe that all the moves since MM left are going along well. Although not enamored by the coaches at this point, I believe we are beginning to see an organization form. 585029[/snapback] The coaches are important. I agree that not being enamored with them isn't important. If the reason is that they appear likely to not do a good job, that is important. I feel that way, so I don't think things are going along well. I guess the question has to be why aren't you enamored with the coaches? Is it the Count Chocula thing?
nero47 Posted January 27, 2006 Posted January 27, 2006 The coaches are important. I agree that not being enamored with them isn't important. If the reason is that they appear likely to not do a good job, that is important. I feel that way, so I don't think things are going along well. I guess the question has to be why aren't you enamored with the coaches? Is it the Count Chocula thing? 585070[/snapback] Primarily because I haven't enough of the OC or know who the DC will be. However, it doesn't appear that Jauron is trying to bring in his buddies from the Chicago days. This could be good.
Orton's Arm Posted January 27, 2006 Posted January 27, 2006 Could his very good record with the Bills and continued focus on the NFL offer us any hope that he may still understand the game at a fundamental level better than generally assumed and that this could lead to the coaching staff he's assembled being much better as a unit than the sum of its individual parts suggests? 585046[/snapback] You make an eloquent case for Marv. But even a coach like Barry Switzer can win games when the talent's there. Sure, Marv was a steadying force in the locker room, and he probably helped keep the team focused. But other than the Marchibroda hire, none of his assistants did anything innovative on offense. Other than Wade Phillips (who failed as a head coach elsewhere before Marv brought him here) none of his defensive coordinators did anything. In other words, his track record of identifying coaching talent--brilliant X's and O's guys--is mixed at best. I didn't feel the Bills won all those games because they did the best job with Xs and Os. Clearly they didn't. They won because Polian selected the best athletes, and he kept those athletes together so they could develop continuity.
BADOLBILZ Posted January 27, 2006 Posted January 27, 2006 Since I haven't landed on a hard position regarding where we are, I'd be interested in having you entertain a slightly different position:Outside of Saban's 64 and 65 AFL campaigns Marv Levy has overseen all of our most successful seasons. He's stayed associated with the game and made no secret of his continued fondness for the game. He isn't taking the job of HC that requires 90 hours of work every week all year long, plus he's a proven delegator. Could his very good record with the Bills and continued focus on the NFL offer us any hope that he may still understand the game at a fundamental level better than generally assumed and that this could lead to the coaching staff he's assembled being much better as a unit than the sum of its individual parts suggests? 585046[/snapback] That's hope speaking. We don't know if that will work, and there is no indication that that type of approach will work in a league dominated by super coaches, and now super staffs. Marv has strengths, but so did Donahoe. It's not like he didn't have a ton going for him. But if you can't hire a good HC nowadays you are going to end up looking like an idiot. My suspicion is that in the interview process the candidates become more humanized and it makes certain GM's overlook their shortcomings and rationalize how they could succeed instead of demanding excellence.
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