Talking about Losman's accuracy

[The Dean]

If JP isn't the answer--which right now looks to be the case

584697[/snapback]

 

 

The quote above is what's wrong with many of your posts, IMO. With a handful of starts, how does it "look to be the case" that he isn't the answer?

[el Tigre]

1. I hear every now and then from media "experts" and also knowledgeable TBD fans how Losman has fundamental problems with accuracy that suggest he will be an NFL failure. Can any of you who know a lot about this and have been watching Losman closely elaborate?

 

Personally, I think his lack of self-confidence (which Coach Meathead and the Bills vets didn't help) is his biggest problem, and the errant passes are simply the consequence of his low football self-esteem. He never had an accuracy problem at Tulane, did he?

 

Actually most draft reports listed accuracy,especially on short routes,as one of Losmans weaknesses. I always buy several different draft publications every year and some of them made him sound alot like Rob Johnson at the time. I wouldn't compare him to RJ,but I do think he's similar to a bigger Doug Flutie with a much stronger arm. And I mean that as a positive.If an offense is designed around his strengths,I think he could flourish.

[Fan in Chicago]

Ralph Wilson is a very old man. If JP isn't the answer--which right now looks to be the case--it's time to start looking for the next guy. You can't afford to spend the next three years or so developing JP and not having a backup plan. Maybe that plan should involve drafting Cutler.

584697[/snapback]

 

Your final statement does not follow from your logic. How will getting Cutler or any newbie help Ralph's win-now plan ? My personal opinion is that win-now plans patched together by short-term solutions are doomed for failure. A few years back, the Redskins loaded their roster with overpaid oldies and it did squat for them.

Answer me this - which veteran QB is out there that can come and really help us more than Kelly Holcomb can ? Kitna ? Garcia ? Brunell ?

I totally agree with Kelso's Helmet & a few others here - give JP a chance to compete. If he wins out the starting job, he will have made great strides towards his own development.

[stinky finger]

Your final statement does not follow from your logic. How will getting Cutler or any newbie help Ralph's win-now plan ? My personal opinion is that win-now plans patched together by short-term solutions are doomed for failure. A few years back, the Redskins loaded their roster with overpaid oldies and it did squat for them.

Answer me this - which veteran QB is out there that can come and really help us more than Kelly Holcomb can ? Kitna ? Garcia ? Brunell ?

I totally agree with Kelso's Helmet & a few others here - give JP a chance to compete. If he wins out the starting job, he will have made great strides towards his own development.

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.....Volek?

[Fan in Chicago]

.....Volek?

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Pardon my ignorance but what makes him better than KH in a veteran role ?

[obie_wan]

Your final statement does not follow from your logic. How will getting Cutler or any newbie help Ralph's win-now plan ? My personal opinion is that win-now plans patched together by short-term solutions are doomed for failure. A few years back, the Redskins loaded their roster with overpaid oldies and it did squat for them.

Answer me this - which veteran QB is out there that can come and really help us more than Kelly Holcomb can ? Kitna ? Garcia ? Brunell ?

I totally agree with Kelso's Helmet & a few others here - give JP a chance to compete. If he wins out the starting job, he will have made great strides towards his own development.

584741[/snapback]

 

Aaron Brooks

 

Patarick Ramsey is worth a look

[stinky finger]

Pardon my ignorance but what makes him better than KH in a veteran role ?

584757[/snapback]

The fact that I've seen them both play, my opinion is that Volek could handle a starting job. Nothing more than watching them both play. That's it. I can't give you the "X's and O's ", just that I think Volek would a fine job from week 1-16. Holcomb being the perfect backup. I wouldn't call you ignorant for that.

[sfladave]

Ralph Wilson is a very old man. If JP isn't the answer--which right now looks to be the case--it's time to start looking for the next guy. You can't afford to spend the next three years or so developing JP and not having a backup plan. Maybe that plan should involve drafting Cutler.

584697[/snapback]

I cannot understand the "judging a guy on 8 starts mentality". Would we give Cutler only 8 games to prove himself too? Perhaps we can draft 2 QBs a year until we get it right!

 

JP didn't even get to start his games consecutively. I would like to see JP get all off the 2006 snaps behind an improved OL before we start with the back up plan. If he has the tools and is unable to produce next year then start looking for a new plan in 2007. I know everyone wants to win now, but Holcomb and most other vet QBs that will be available will not get us to the promised land in the 2006 season.

 

Our off season priorities have to be on the lines, not QB.

[bills_fan]

I cannot understand the "judging a guy on 8 starts mentality". Would we give Cutler only 8 games to prove himself too? Perhaps we can draft 2 QBs a year until we get it right!

 

JP didn't even get to start his games consecutively. I would like to see JP get all off the 2006 snaps behind an improved OL before we start with the back up plan. If he has the tools and is unable to produce next year then start looking for a new plan in 2007. I know everyone wants to win now, but Holcomb and most other vet QBs that will be available will not get us to the promised land in the 2006 season.

 

Our off season priorities have to be on the lines, not QB.

 

At the end of 06, assuming JP makes every start, he will have played 24 NFL games. Even then, I don't think you can make a definitive opinion on JP. I think in 07 you will learn what you have with JP. QBs take time and you will see progress, but you won't be able to fully judge JP until after 07.

 

Look at some of the guys from non-major college programs (or ones that didn't have a pro offense like USC) who have taken a couple years to develop...Hasselback, Favre, Pennington (pre-surgeries), McNair, Trent Green, Plummer, Leftwich and Bulger.

 

Everyone is looking for the next Marino, Big Ben or Palmer. There is a reason these guys are so rare, because it rarely happens that way. More likely is that in 2 years, with steady playing time, we'll know what JP is all about as a QB, and whether he can get the job done.

[34-78-83]

I cannot understand the "judging a guy on 8 starts mentality". Would we give Cutler only 8 games to prove himself too? Perhaps we can draft 2 QBs a year until we get it right!

 

JP didn't even get to start his games consecutively. I would like to see JP get all off the 2006 snaps behind an improved OL before we start with the back up plan. If he has the tools and is unable to produce next year then start looking for a new plan in 2007. I know everyone wants to win now, but Holcomb and most other vet QBs that will be available will not get us to the promised land in the 2006 season.

 

Our off season priorities have to be on the lines, not QB.

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Shhhh

 

remember , it's all about Hot Pockets.

[The Dean]

At the end of 06, assuming JP makes every start, he will have played 24 NFL games.  Even then, I don't think you can make a definitive opinion on JP.  I think in 07 you will learn what you have with JP.  QBs take time and you will see progress, but you won't be able to fully judge JP until after 07.

 

Look at some of the guys from non-major college programs (or ones that didn't have a pro offense like USC) who have taken a couple years to develop...Hasselback, Favre, Pennington (pre-surgeries), McNair, Trent Green, Plummer, Leftwich and Bulger.

 

Everyone is looking for the next Marino, Big Ben or Palmer.  There is a reason these guys are so rare, because it rarely happens that way.  More likely is that in 2 years, with steady playing time, we'll know what JP is all about as a QB, and whether he can get the job done.

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For sure. But, you should be able to START to see if he's learning...growing, etc. Given his very few starts...and the break in between starts, it's hard to make much of a judgement now. Unless you think he's regressed (clearly he hasn't, IMO) or shown no ability or made no progress (clearly he's shown both some progress and ability, IMO).

[bills_fan]

For sure. But, you should be able to START to see if he's learning...growing, etc. Given his very few starts...and the break in between starts, it's hard to make much of a judgement now. Unless you think he's regressed (clearly he hasn't, IMO) or shown no ability or made no progress (clearly he's shown both some progress and ability, IMO).

 

I agree completely. You will see progress. Hell, I thought there was a lot of progress in JP's game from the first 4 games to the second 4 games he started. He looked like a totally different QB.

 

But you won't really know till after 07.

[ganesh]

Answer me this - which veteran QB is out there that can come and really help us more than Kelly Holcomb can ? Kitna ? Garcia ? Brunell ?

I totally agree with Kelso's Helmet & a few others here - give JP a chance to compete. If he wins out the starting job, he will have made great strides towards his own development.

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None of the above.....The only guys I would bring to camp to fight it out would

be Brad Johnson and Kerry Collins.....

 

Of course, I would like JP to be our starter.....

 

I definitely don't want KH or Garcia....There is enough failure from these guys

to ignore them.....KH is a career backup...he cannot be a franchise saver.....He

cannot consistently play 16 games and win a majority of them....

[Campy]

I read a lot about KH not having the ability to take Bflo to the playoffs. Well, neither did Trent Dilfer when he was in Baltimore.

 

I read alot about how bad the OL is. Don't get me wrong, there is room for A LOT of improvement. But it kills me how people want to blame JPs performance on the OL. Despite taking the same number of attempts as KH (two fewer, actually), JP -- the mobile QB with "escapability" and a super-quick release -- took 50% more sacks than the rather immobile KH. Same offensive scheme. Same guys running it. Hmm...

 

Yes, the OL can make a QB look better. But a QB can also make an OL look better too. And more than just in pass protection. Opponents had no fear of JP Losman beating them, which led to them stacking the line to stop the run. Again, the QB's performance didn't exactly help the line much.

 

Just an observation. thought, and opine...

[Orton's Arm]

Your final statement does not follow from your logic. How will getting Cutler or any newbie help Ralph's win-now plan ? My personal opinion is that win-now plans patched together by short-term solutions are doomed for failure. A few years back, the Redskins loaded their roster with overpaid oldies and it did squat for them.

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I agree with the rejection of a short-term mentality. Even when your owner is 87 years old, there's no way you can patch together a team that will get you a Super Bowl ring. So you have to do things right.

 

You are correct to say there are no bona fide answers at QB in free agency. Nor do I expect there to be any next year, or the year after that.

 

On this thread, I hear things like, "If Losman doesn't do anything in 2007, you'll know you have a QB problem." Fine. But at the end of the 2007 if the Bills realize they have a QB problem, Ralph Wilson will likely die of old age before it can be solved. Presumably, the Bills would respond by taking a QB in the 2008 draft; two years later than when I want them to take Cutler. If the Bills did draft a QB in 2008, it would likely be 2009 or 2010 before he could do anything.

 

To be honest, I have serious doubts about whether Losman should have been drafted in the first place. Prior to Losman, the best QB TD drafted while a general manager was Kordell Stewart. Then there's Tom Modrak. He could really have raped Mike Ditka by trading away the Donovan McNabb pick. Nothing against McNabb, but was he really worth the fifth overall pick that Ditka would have given up, plus picks in rounds 3 - 7 in that year's draft, plus a first round pick the next year (2nd overall), plus maybe an extra pick or two? I don't think so.

 

In other words, Losman was chosen by men who place too high a premium on mobility, and not enough on accuracy. TD said that according to most, there was a big three at QB in the year he took Losman. But the way he saw things, there was a big four. Losman has done little on the field to show doubts about his accuracy were misplaced. At this point, we're basically betting the next few years of this franchise on TD's ability to evaluate QB talent. That is hardly a reassuring thought.

[sfladave]

At this point, we're basically betting the next few years of this franchise on TD's ability to evaluate QB talent. That is hardly a reassuring thought.

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That in itself is a scary thought. However you and I disagree on JPs chance to become a very good QB. He showed me improvement last year, especially after he came back from being benched.

 

My reasoning of not picking up a QB and concentrate on our lines in the draft and FA this year is as follows:

1. A good OL will give us an real opportunity to evaluate JP.

 

2. A good OL will give us a very good running game, leading to a balanced offensive attack.

 

3. If JP is unable to show any sign that he IS the future of this franchise at QB we will have built a solid offensive unit that a Dilfer, Volek or Holcomb type of QB can come in a play well enough in to take us far. So there is no need to start grooming a young QB now.

[mead107]

Ralph Wilson is a very old man. If JP isn't the answer--which right now looks to be the case--it's time to start looking for the next guy. You can't afford to spend the next three years or so developing JP and not having a backup plan. Maybe that plan should involve drafting Cutler.

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what is your ans ?????

[Bill from NYC]

That in itself is a scary thought. However you and I disagree on JPs chance to become a very good QB. He showed me improvement last year, especially after he came back from being benched.

 

My reasoning of not picking up a QB and concentrate on our lines in the draft and FA this year is as follows:

1. A good OL will give us an real opportunity to evaluate JP.

 

2. A good OL will give us a very good running game, leading to a balanced offensive attack.

 

3. If JP is unable to show any sign that he IS the future of this franchise at QB we will have built a solid offensive unit that a Dilfer, Volek or Holcomb type of QB can come in a play well enough in to take us far. So there is no need to start grooming a young QB now.

584935[/snapback]

 

I agree with your entire post except the last sentence. Imo, Matthews does the Bills no good at all as the 3rd string qb. I would rather see them bring in a young kid and perhaps get lucky.

No need to use a first round pick mind you, but I see little harm in drafting a kid who has potential.

[Orton's Arm]

3. If JP is unable to show any sign that he IS the future of this franchise at QB we will have built a solid offensive unit that a Dilfer, Volek or Holcomb type of QB can come in a play well enough in to take us far. So there is no need to start grooming a young QB now.

584935[/snapback]

Unless you have one of the best defenses in history, like Baltimore in 2000, you're not going to win a Super Bowl without a good QB. It's true your plan could give the Bills a winning record even if Losman proved a flop. But it wouldn't get Ralph that Super Bowl ring.

 

Since quarterbacks take a long time to develop, any rebuilding plan should begin by making sure your QB of the future is on the roster. OL take a little while to develop too, so I'd be in favor of a draft like this:

 

1. Cutler

2. OL

3. OL

3. OL

4 - 7 best player available

 

Then you finish the rebuilding in 2007, and get Ralph that ring.

[The Dean]

I agree with your entire post except the last sentence. Imo, Matthews does the Bills no good at all as the 3rd string qb. I would rather see them bring in a young kid and perhaps get lucky.

No need to use a first round pick mind you, but I see little harm in drafting a kid who has potential.

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I agree that we should be developing a QB in the #3 slot. (We should ALWAYS be developing a QB in the #3 slot, IMO.) I disagree with you and the Arm that, based on what we've seen, Holcomb is unlikely to be our guy.

 

I don't know that he will...but, I've seen nothing to show me he won't. The reason he was such a GREAT pick where we got him is, in part, the QB pickings were slim last year and this year. JP is a far better bet than ANY of the picks last year and. most likely, any this year.

 

I find it particularly humorous that some have suggested (not you, Bill) we bring in Rivers and get rid of JP. So far JP has shown WAY more than Rivers, because Rivers has shown nothing. Same with any of the QBs coming out of the draft. They have not played one down in the NFL...we have no idea how they will perform.

 

We at least know that JP can take a snap, avoid the rush, fire the ball with authority, etc. We also know that he's getting better with his composure and that his accuracy on the short ball is getting better (but, not yet where it should be). We also know that he can take a benching and getting pulled with having a meltdown or hissy fit. We know that he can step in as a reliever and deliver despite not getting the full week of practice with starting QB snaps.

 

We don't KNOW anything terrible about him yet. We have concerns...but, again, given his few starts and the break between them, he hasn't proven he CAN'T do anything. With his obvious talents, his progress and what he's already shown in a limited amont of time 9with questionable support and coaching), I can't understand why you (or anyone) would want to abandon him for an unknown at this point in time.