Talking about Losman's accuracy

[Typical TBD Guy]

1. I hear every now and then from media "experts" and also knowledgeable TBD fans how Losman has fundamental problems with accuracy that suggest he will be an NFL failure. Can any of you who know a lot about this and have been watching Losman closely elaborate?

 

Personally, I think his lack of self-confidence (which Coach Meathead and the Bills vets didn't help) is his biggest problem, and the errant passes are simply the consequence of his low football self-esteem. He never had an accuracy problem at Tulane, did he?

 

Anyway, clarifying this issue could help us better understand Losman's fate under the new regime.

 

2. Speaking of the new regime, I've really come to like Jauron. I'm a results-oriented kind of guy who doesn't look too favorably on his bottom-line record in Chicago, but the reality is that all people in all walks of life deserve a second chance provided that they show some promise of having learned from their rookie mistakes. And I have a lot of confidence that Marv saw DJ as a smart, humble guy who is plenty capable of learning from his original failures. So DJ deserves at least 1 full season before I/we consider running him out of town like I/we did to Drew and TD .

 

And for what it's worth, I think DJ's excuses of poor player talent and a poor GM in Chicago are perfectly fair. If Sherman was HC in Chicago and DJ was HC/GM in Green Bay, maybe their records would be reversed??

 

3. We either draft a LT, DE, or DT with our #8 pick. I can't imagine any other positions selected, and I also don't think we trade up or down. Ferguson is the best LT at this time and Super Mario is the best DE at this time, but neither will be around at #8. The best DT (in my opinion) is Haloti Ngata, a younger version of Ted Washington who should still be around when we pick. He is one of those "high character guys" that Marv loves, and so that's who I'm fairly confident (I know, I know...way too early) we will draft.

 

4. I know this is OT, but !@#$ it - when are the Sabres gonna trade a goalie already???? With our currently tenuous grasp of the 4th playoff seed and our currently fading hopes of the division title, we could really use some extra non-goalie talent at this point in the schedule. I highly recommend trading both Biron AND Noronen for a bunch of defensemen plus a cheap veteran goalie to back up Miller.

 

OK, I'm finally done. All comments and criticism welcome.

[BillsFan Trapped in Pats Land]

Well said. But, I see the Bills going D line 1st round unless someone totally fell to them. I could also see them moving down a little.

 

If the defense had been better in 2005, our offense would not have looked so rancid.

[34-78-83]

JP's accuracy issues were much more clearly defined early on (in his 1st few games) where he was trying to throw timing passes but had a Hot Pocket clock in his head and ants in his pants. He is a very accurate passer when he doesn't rush and his drop and step are sound. He displayed this much better in his second go'round starting with KC, until being injured (shoulder and leg) early in the NE game which really threw off his accuracy again.

[Campy]

Good post Kelso. I really don't care about throwing mechanics. There are all sorts of people who succeed in their task with poor technique, be it guitar players, pitchers, or QBs.

 

What I care about is the result. Consistenty zipping balls on a rope that sail 10 feet over a receiver's head - despite him being wide open and square to the QB, pretty much tells me all I need to know.

 

I read a post yesterday in which a poster praised him for his deep ball accuracy. And yes, on balls where he throws it up and lets WRs run under it, he looked pretty good. But you'll die a quick death if your offense is incapable of consistently completing short and intermediate high-percentage passes.

 

I've also read that the OL is JP's biggest hurdle. I'm generally the first one to agree with that line of thinking, but I just can't buy it in this case. He's at his worst when he's in the pocket. You can literally see him bounce higher and higher as his happy feet get the better of him the more time he has. It's rather obvious to me that he's too dang squirrelly in the pocket. In fairness to him, it may be conditioning from his days in Tulane.

 

He seems to be his best when he's on the run on rollouts, naked bootlegs, or just when he's running for his life on a broken play. IMHO, you have to be able to throw from the pocket to be successful. The rest is a bonus. JP is unable to throw consistently accurate passes from the pocket, and he won't be a consistently good QB until/if he does.

 

Just my opinion...

[34-78-83]

Good post Kelso.  I really don't care about throwing mechanics.  There are all sorts of people who succeed in their task with poor technique, be it guitar players, pitchers, or QBs. 

 

What I care about is the result.  Consistenty zipping balls on a rope that sail 10 feet over a receiver's head - despite him being wide open and square to the QB, pretty much tells me all I need to know. 

 

I read a post yesterday in which a poster praised him for his deep ball accuracy.  And yes, on balls where he throws it up and lets WRs run under it, he looked pretty good.  But you'll die a quick death if your offense is incapable of consistently completing short and intermediate high-percentage passes.

 

I've also read that the OL is JP's biggest hurdle.  I'm generally the first one to agree with that line of thinking, but I just can't buy it in this case.  He's at his worst when he's in the pocket. You can literally see him bounce higher and higher as his happy feet get the better of him the more time he has.  It's rather obvious to me that he's too dang squirrelly in the pocket.  In fairness to him, it may be conditioning from his days in Tulane. 

 

He seems to be his best when he's on the run on rollouts, naked bootlegs, or just when he's running for his life on a broken play.  IMHO, you have to be able to throw from the pocket to be successful.  The rest is a bonus.  JP is unable to throw consistently accurate passes from the pocket, and he won't be a consistently good QB until/if he does.

 

Just my opinion...

583541[/snapback]

 

Did you go to the Carolina game?

 

Lots of success from the pocket 'til the one bad pass at the end.

[Corp000085]

I don't think that his accuracy is a big problem... He was very accurate on route based passes where he was under little pressure, and so so when he was able to roll out and make a throw. He was inaccurate on the clusterf--k plays, which i don't think anyone would be. Losman's passing was not good, but that had a lot to do with coaching, gameplanning and a general sense of a losers attitude by everybody. I would not put much stock in last year, either way, since it was a wash of a season.

 

As for jauron, i think a lot of posters were just pissed that they didn't get their money guy. Jauron will be fine with the right assistant coaches and support from management.

 

The sabres are fine and as long as they stay within about 5 games of first, anything is open. Look at the last month of the schedule... They play toronto, montreal and ottawa like 34 times in the last week. They'll be healthy then too. Not worried

[VABills]

His problem with accurracy is basically the same as Vick. Decent arm, not as good as Vicks, but he basically gets his feet mixed up. Maybe too athletic for his own good partially, and doesn't quite understand the technique needed to setup and step into the throw.

 

Manning does this alot, if you watch, he bunny hops, and never really settles. Manning however seems to be able to overcome the poor throwing techinue. Losman, and most QB's cannot. Again it really is an issue more with his feet.

 

Think about how when you say someone throws like a girl, a lot of the reason is more then just the wristy throw but a lot of times from lot stepping into the throw. Basically that is his accurracy issue, he throws like a girl.

[Campy]

Lots of success from the pocket 'til the one bad pass at the end.

583554[/snapback]

You mean the game where we hung a whole 9 points on the Panthers? No, I didn't see it in Charlotte, I watched it with our local Backers group.

 

I appreciate what you're saying, but the fact that you cite a game in which we failed to score a TD as a glowing endorsement of JP's pocket passing abilities kinda' speaks volumes, doesn't it?

[34-78-83]

You mean the game where we hung a whole 9 points on the Panthers?  No, I didn't see it in Charlotte, I watched it with our local Backers group.

 

I appreciate what you're saying, but the fact that you cite a game in which we failed to score a TD as a glowing endorsement of JP's pocket passing abilities kinda' speaks volumes, doesn't it?

583571[/snapback]

 

Campy we're talking about a developing kid here against a very good D. Keep it in that context and you'll understand my points a lot better. He ran two excellent spread formation series during that game in which he displayed much improved decisiveness, the ability to pre-snap read, and also threw some great timing hitches and outs.

 

edit: remember he has 8 starts lifetime

The NFL guys who's opinions I respect usually say you need atleast 30 to get a full read.

[Campy]

Campy we're talking about a developing kid here against a very good D. Keep it in that context and you'll understand my points a lot better. He ran two excellent spread formation series during that game in which he displayed much improved decisiveness, the ability to pre-snap read, and also threw some great timing hitches and outs.

 

edit: remember he has 8 starts lifetime 

The NFL guys who's opinions I respect usually say you need atleast 30 to get a full read.

583583[/snapback]

I'll have to see it happen consistently before I'll change my opinion of him. Let's hope I'm wrong -- that'd be the best things for the Bills -- but I'm not holding my breath...

[CoachChuckDickerson]

1. I hear every now and then from media "experts" and also knowledgeable TBD fans how Losman has fundamental problems with accuracy that suggest he will be an NFL failure. Can any of you who know a lot about this and have been watching Losman closely elaborate?

 

Personally, I think his lack of self-confidence (which Coach Meathead and the Bills vets didn't help) is his biggest problem, and the errant passes are simply the consequence of his low football self-esteem. He never had an accuracy problem at Tulane, did he?

 

Anyway, clarifying this issue could help us better understand Losman's fate under the new regime.

 

I'm ceratinly not an expert but I can tell you accuracy in college does not always translate into NFL accuracy. (Akili Smith for example) The fact of the matter is, 50% of all first round QBs end up being busts. Hopefully JP ends up on the better end of that average but so far, things aren't looking good.

[stuckincincy]

Personally, I think his lack of self-confidence (which Coach Meathead and the Bills vets didn't help) is his biggest problem, and the errant passes are simply the consequence of his low football self-esteem.

583499[/snapback]

 

Myself, I'd have a pretty high level of self-esteem if somebody forked over millions of bucks my way before I did a thing to earn it.

[34-78-83]

I'll have to see it happen consistently before I'll change my opinion of him.  Let's hope I'm wrong -- that'd be the best things for the Bills -- but I'm not holding my breath...

583617[/snapback]

 

That's fair enough. I'm certainly not trying to change anyone's opinion of the guy, just pointing out the facts that I was able to see from my vantage point, that many either don't get to see, or choose not to see. Fact remains, none of us can really say anything credible about him until he has a larger body of work to look at and a line that is atleast functional.

[Guest BackInDaDay]

1. I hear every now and then from media "experts" and also knowledgeable TBD fans how Losman has fundamental problems with accuracy that suggest he will be an NFL failure. Can any of you who know a lot about this and have been watching Losman closely elaborate?

 

Personally, I think his lack of self-confidence (which Coach Meathead and the Bills vets didn't help) is his biggest problem, and the errant passes are simply the consequence of his low football self-esteem. He never had an accuracy problem at Tulane, did he?

 

Anyway, clarifying this issue could help us better understand Losman's fate under the new regime.

583499[/snapback]

 

Here's my contribution to yesterday's post :

http://www.stadiumwall.com/index.php?showt...ndpost&p=582179

 

Accuracy comes from sound mechanics - setting up, focusing, throwing motion and follow-thru.

 

Losman can probably throw 45 out of 50 balls through a tire 20 yards away from an unencumbered 5 step drop in practice.

 

His 'in-game' accuracy problems stem from his inability to recognise his targets quickly enough. He has to get better recognizing coverage schemes and their effect on the routes called in the huddle. This will allow him to look defenders off his primary/secondary receiver by leading the DBs where they've been coached to go. If he doesn't know where they're going he can't know where his play is.

 

His short passing game suffers because he's guessing who'll be open and when, rather than knowing who'll be open and when. He can through the deep ball well because there's no guesswork to it.

 

He should spend a week with a DB coach and a couple of his DB teammates, picking their brains about what they're looking for while in each coverage.

 

Then he needs to get enough snaps in scrimmages/pre-season to apply what he's learned. When he's comfortable knowing when and where to deliver the ball he'll be worth that #1 pick. He may never get there, but the coaching staff has to invest enough time to make sure JP's failure to develope is his, and not theirs.

[The Dean]

Here's my contribution to yesterday's post :

http://www.stadiumwall.com/index.php?showt...ndpost&p=582179

 

Accuracy comes from sound mechanics - setting up, focusing, throwing motion and follow-thru.

 

Losman can probably throw 45 out of 50 balls through a tire 20 yards away from an unencumbered 5 step drop in practice.

 

His 'in-game' accuracy problems stem from his inability to recognise his targets quickly enough. He has to get better recognizing coverage schemes and their effect on the routes called in the huddle. This will allow him to look defenders off his primary/secondary receiver by leading the DBs where they've been coached to go. If he doesn't know where they're going he can't know where his play is.

 

His short passing game suffers because he's guessing who'll be open and when, rather than knowing who'll be open and when. He can through the deep ball well because there's no guesswork to it.

 

He should spend a week with a DB coach and a couple of his DB teammates, picking their brains about what they're looking for while in each coverage.

 

Then he needs to get enough snaps in scrimmages/pre-season to apply what he's learned. When he's comfortable knowing when and where to deliver the ball he'll be worth that #1 pick. He may never get there, but the coaching staff has to invest enough time to make sure JP's failure to develope is his, and not theirs.

583872[/snapback]

 

Xcellent summary, IMO. With the right coaching, I think the kid's gonna be all right. (A good OL and quality receivers couldn't hurt, either.)

[Guest BackInDaDay]

Xcellent summary, IMO.  With the right coaching, I think the kid's gonna be all right.  (A good OL and quality receivers couldn't hurt, either.)

583885[/snapback]

 

Thanks. As I posted last season, his windows (where he can deliver the ball safely, and in-stride) close quickly because defenders are either already in those passing lanes, or approaching them with a speed he hasn't experienced before.

 

His OC can try to manipulate where our opponent's DC puts his men in coverage. He's not gonna get it 100% right every time, but if he can get the D move one way or another, and JP can recognize where their responsibilities are, it gives him the best chance to find an open window. My reference to 'looking guys off' is when he gets savvy enough to help defenders get to where they should be quicker, opening something up in the area they left.

[Typical TBD Guy]

Accuracy comes from sound mechanics - setting up, focusing, throwing motion and follow-thru.

583872[/snapback]

 

Thanks for all your insight in this thread!

 

That statement I highlighted makes perfect sense to me! Some of the football media talking heads have made it sound like a QB's accuracy is some sort of innate ability that JP lacked.

 

To me, this reasoning was always suspect. I think these guys just like making definitive answers such as "JP will be the next Brett Favre" or "JP will be the next RJ" because it makes for better headlines and makes them appear smarter...as opposed to simply saying the neutral but far more accurate comment of "JP will be a great success if he works REALLY hard and stays healthy and maintains confidence in his God-given abilites."

 

My conclusion? Hold onto JP, draft a day 2 QB, cut Holcomb, let Matthews retire, and sign another vet QB to push JP.

[34-78-83]

Thanks for all your insight in this thread!

 

That statement I highlighted makes perfect sense to me! Some of the football media talking heads have made it sound like a QB's accuracy is some sort of innate ability that JP lacked.

 

To me, this reasoning was always suspect. I think these guys just like making definitive answers such as "JP will be the next Brett Favre" or "JP will be the next RJ" because it makes for better headlines and makes them appear smarter...as opposed to simply saying the neutral but far more accurate comment of "JP will be a great success if he works REALLY hard and stays healthy and maintains confidence in his God-given abilites."

 

My conclusion? Hold onto JP, draft a day 2 QB, cut Holcomb, let Matthews retire, and sign another vet QB to push JP.

583982[/snapback]

 

Sounds about right to me.

[SnakeOiler]

geez, the kid has only played a handful of games -- not even a whole season. It's still too early to tell. Eli didn't show anything the 1st half of last year. ALso, look at Matt Hasselback, now he has a few years under his belt, and he's an all-pro. But it takes TIME.

 

Be patient, grasshoppers....

[Orton's Arm]

geez, the kid has only played a handful of games -- not even a whole season.  It's still too early to tell.  Eli didn't show anything the 1st half of last year.  ALso, look at Matt Hasselback, now he has a few years under his belt, and he's an all-pro.  But it takes TIME. 

 

Be patient, grasshoppers....

584262[/snapback]

Ralph Wilson is a very old man. If JP isn't the answer--which right now looks to be the case--it's time to start looking for the next guy. You can't afford to spend the next three years or so developing JP and not having a backup plan. Maybe that plan should involve drafting Cutler.