John from Riverside Posted January 24, 2006 Posted January 24, 2006 I was going over the film last night of the Miami debocle where they came back and beat us..... Losman had 3...count them THREE TOUCHDOWNS in the first damn quarter. I am not opposed to a open QB competition in training camp....the thing is.....Losman would win it. Lets get the O Line fixed up.
John in VA Beach Posted January 24, 2006 Posted January 24, 2006 You (the fans) simply can't have it both ways. If the Bills decide to start JP all 16 games next year (and "develop him") they probably will go 5-11 again...maybe 6-10 if he really matures. That's not good enough for the WIN NOW NFL. You (the fans) will ask for Jauron's head on a platter, you will ask for Levy's resignation, etc... 582058[/snapback] I was about to post the same thing. Patience with JP's development means DJ looses and if DJ looses things get ugly fast. What would be an exceptable medium? I mean if JP gets the nod and is a work in progress, what do you guys think would be a successful campaign for Jauron? 7-9? I'd take that mark if the Bills show improvement as the year goes on.
drhockey Posted January 24, 2006 Posted January 24, 2006 Screw JP......I deserve better than this. I've suffered a hell of a lot longer than JP has.
Campy Posted January 24, 2006 Posted January 24, 2006 It amazes me that some fans will give Holcomb more time to improve after 10 years but the won't even give JP 10 games. 582071[/snapback] I appreciate the tone of your post. Not speaking for anyone other than me, I thought Holcomb did a better job of managing the offense. I certainly didn't expect him to improve, but I still liked what he brought to the table last year. He played within himself, made many high percentage passes, and had our running game not taken a mis-season vacation, I think that Willis would have been the beneficiary of the efficient passing (like Dillon in NE). To my eyes, JP is another in a long list of happy-footed athletes that doesn't have the composure to play QB at a high level in the NFL. Jauron seems to favor a more conservative offense, and that seems to play more to Holcomb's strengths than JP's. Nobody wants him to succeed more than me, but I find myself agreeing with Van Miller in that he just doesn't have it. And if I'm correct, that will suck. Bigtime.
zow2 Posted January 24, 2006 Posted January 24, 2006 Fix the line and the QB will do fine. 582104[/snapback] Sounds great on paper but no line is perfect and the QB is going to have to make some plays on the fly. Have you seen all the 3rd down conversions Roethlisberger has made these last 3 games? I noticed that on several of them his line was penetrated and Ben just had the uncanny ability to make a play and get the 1st down. That's the stuff JP, Eli, whoever?!?? is going to have to learn to do.
John in VA Beach Posted January 24, 2006 Posted January 24, 2006 Nobody wants him to succeed more than me, but I find myself agreeing with Van Miller in that he just doesn't have it. And if I'm correct, that will suck. Bigtime. 582116[/snapback] What did Miller say about JP? Its not a good sign if he's already given up on JP. Jim Kelly seems pretty perplexed by JP also. I remeber hearing him on the radio say that we've all met JP and he's a different kind of guy. Basically he was saying that he didn't know what to make of him personally or as a field general.
Robert Paulson Posted January 24, 2006 Posted January 24, 2006 It amazes me that some fans will give Holcomb more time to improve after 10 years but the won't even give JP 10 games. ding ding ding post of the day couldn't have said it better myself
ganesh Posted January 24, 2006 Posted January 24, 2006 I don't know if Losman is the answer at quarterback, but I really hope that he is and I am pulling for him. What I do know is that Holcomb is not the answer. He is a career journeyman quarterback who can give you a good game now and then. 582071[/snapback] Bingo....
Campy Posted January 24, 2006 Posted January 24, 2006 What did Miller say about JP? Its not a good sign if he's already given up on JP. 582137[/snapback] Nick in England wrote about his and his father's visit to WNY to take in a Bills game. Once it was discovered they had travelled so far to see the Bills, they were given first class treatment - tour of the facility and press box passes to view the game being among the perks. Nick sat next to Vann, and he shared a lot of comments about how gracious a "host" Vann was. After JP missed a wide open WR by 20 yards for like the 5th time, Vann yelled (and I'm paraphrasing here) "JP Losman is not good enough to be an NFL QB. He's erratic, can't hit broad side of a barn!" The whole room went silent, and somebody from the Bills was in their (John Guy maybe), and he just put his head down and walked out of the press box. No one guy is the be all end all, but I took some solace in knowing that I wasn't the only person that didn't like what I saw in his play.
John in VA Beach Posted January 24, 2006 Posted January 24, 2006 It amazes me that some fans will give Holcomb more time to improve after 10 years but the won't even give JP 10 games.ding ding ding post of the day couldn't have said it better myself 582145[/snapback] I think the key is that Holcomb developed on someone elses time, not the Bills. JP will be entering his third camp and he needs to put up some results. I personally wish he had started 16 last season. Lets face it though, the days of waiting for a late bloomer are over. If JP doesn't get things together soon JP's contract will be winding down and he'll probably be looking for a plce to get a fresh start. Not the coaches looking to unload him, JP looking to unload himself. You can't have loyalty in free agency from players or coaches.
Poeticlaw Posted January 24, 2006 Posted January 24, 2006 Eli seems to be producing a better than average amount as well. It seems like everyone is producing except JP.... 582025[/snapback] Eli is him his frst full season - I posted a few days ago the comparisons of Eli and JP in the first starts and JP statistically beat Eli hands down. However, again in my post i stated that the giants have good recievers Plaxico, Toomer, Shockey and the all purpose back Tiki barber. Before JP is Judeged he needs a team around him and 16 games as the starter and we will see what he has. JP possesses all the skills and is going to be an exciting QB to watch the offense did not fit JP's skill set and JP did show improvement from his first 4 games to his last 4 games. However, MM was afraid of losing the team that wanted a VET in the QB spot and of TD and MM afraid of losing their jobs. Holcomb was the better QB- ok JP 2 wins Holcomb 3 games so Holcomb is a one game better winner than holcomb and has a better passing effeicncy/Wb rating woopy do holcom doesnt posess the arm I see in JP nor the Scrambling ability the only difference i see between Holcom and Jp is 6 years in the leauge that holcomb has.
Campy Posted January 24, 2006 Posted January 24, 2006 Holcomb was the better QB- ok JP 2 wins Holcomb 3 games so Holcomb is a one game better winner than holcomb and has a better passing effeicncy/Wb rating woopy do holcom doesnt posess the arm I see in JP nor the Scrambling ability the only difference i see between Holcom and Jp is 6 years in the leauge that holcomb has. 582162[/snapback] That's kind of tough to read, but there were very big differences in the offensive production with each QB. Remember, I don't dislike JP. I want him to do well. But anyone who watched the games saw Holcomb recognize blitzes, not only as they came, but audibilizing at the LoS. Our 3rd down efficiency was up with Holcomb, our scoring was up - everything IMO just seemed to work better on the offensive side of the ball. One thing, or two things I guess, that you didn't see with Holcomb is him putting the ball 15 yards over open receivers heads on a consistent basis. Nor did you see him bouncing the ball off the ground while he's running around pretending to be a damn rugby player.
Guest BackInDaDay Posted January 24, 2006 Posted January 24, 2006 He now has 8 starts under his belt, 2 training camps ( plus a 3rd this summer). 582024[/snapback] JP really has to work on his accuracy and awareness in the pocket. 582024[/snapback] Accuracy comes from sound mechanics - setting up, focusing, throwing motion and follow-thru. Losman can probably throw 45 out of 50 balls through a tire 20 yards away from an unencumbered 5 step drop in practice. His 'in-game' accuracy problems stem from his inability to recognise his targets quickly enough. He has to get better recognizing coverage schemes and their effect on the routes called in the huddle. This will allow him to look defenders off his primary/secondary receiver by leading the DBs where they've been coached to go. If he doen't know where they're going he can't know where his play is. His short passing game suffers because he's guessing who'll be open and when, rather than knowing who'll be open and when. He can through the deep ball well because there's no guesswork to it. He should spend a week with a DB coach and a couple of his DB teammates, picking their brains about what they're looking for while in each coverage. Then he needs to get enough snaps in scrimmages/pre-season to apply what he's learned. When he's comfortable knowing when and where to deliver the ball he'll be worth that #1 pick. He may never get there, but the coaching staff has to invest enough time to make sure JP's failure to develope is his, and not theirs.
Kelly the Dog Posted January 24, 2006 Posted January 24, 2006 JP was incredibly accurate on his bombs most of the entire year. He never had much of a problem with accuracy in college. His short game will be fine I think when he settles down. His problem was too much information put on him when the team asked him to do stuff he shouldnt have had to do, lack of experience reading defenses in game situations, the woeful way he was handled, combined with guys like Moulds basically turning on him unprofessionally. He will easily beat out Holcomb in training camp for starter next year, IMO, his third training camp, even if we go with a conservative coach.
Campy Posted January 24, 2006 Posted January 24, 2006 He will easily beat out Holcomb in training camp for starter next year, IMO, his third training camp, even if we go with a conservative coach. 582190[/snapback] And I'd be all for it. May the best man (QB) win.
Guest BackInDaDay Posted January 24, 2006 Posted January 24, 2006 That's kind of tough to read, but there were very big differences in the offensive production with each QB. Remember, I don't dislike JP. I want him to do well. But anyone who watched the games saw Holcomb recognize blitzes, not only as they came, but audibilizing at the LoS. Our 3rd down efficiency was up with Holcomb, our scoring was up - everything IMO just seemed to work better on the offensive side of the ball. One thing, or two things I guess, that you didn't see with Holcomb is him putting the ball 15 yards over open receivers heads on a consistent basis. Nor did you see him bouncing the ball off the ground while he's running around pretending to be a damn rugby player. 582174[/snapback] I agree. So at this stage of their careers, how could Losman possibly compete for the starting job? He can't. That doesn't mean we give up on him. It only means he needs more work. It also means that Holcomb is our starter in '06 unless Marv and DJ have someone else in mind. I like Holcomb for the reasons you stated above. We all like JP's potential, but I think Holcomb is the most productive QB on the roster.
mattypro89 Posted January 24, 2006 Posted January 24, 2006 The Bills are in pretty bad shape at the QB situation right now. I like JP but he wasn't given time to develop last year and that shakes my confidence in next season. I want Holcomb cut. 582008[/snapback] totally agree. Holcomb just does not have the arm to be a NFL starter. let JP play and he will probably step up.
Tasker Posted January 24, 2006 Posted January 24, 2006 JPL is better than Holcomb, and gives this team a better chance to win than Holcomb. That was true all year long this year (manipulate the stats to back another point of view if you want, but I think that is silly), and that is going to get truer every game that he plays. His ability to succeed this year and win was hurt by the flip flopping and lack of support from MM, but he still was the guy. Do people out there think that if he played 16 games we would have finished 4-12 or worse? If so I think you guys are crazy. I am very strongly of the opinion that if JPL had started 16 games we would have been as successful if not more successful in 2005, and more importantly more prepared for 2006. If he proves not to be what optimists think he can be, and we can upgrade our more by finding a new quarterback than by fixing other issues, then I am fine with that. But he should have started 16 games this year, and I would rather address the lines and the offensive game plan and let him start 16 times next year than see Kelly Holcomb play or than try to start again in the draft or use cap space for a free agent QB. Beating Cincy didn't make Holcomb a good quarterback, just like his big playoff game against Pittsburgh years ago didn't. Maybe there are people out there who hold out hope Holcomb will become something he is not at the moment (a playoff caliber quarterback), but I think it is a little more realistic to expect JPL to impove than KH, given age and experience. LET JP PLAY!
MavBavButav Posted January 24, 2006 Posted January 24, 2006 JPL is better than Holcomb, and gives this team a better chance to win than Holcomb. That was true all year long this year (manipulate the stats to back another point of view if you want, but I think that is silly), and that is going to get truer every game that he plays. His ability to succeed this year and win was hurt by the flip flopping and lack of support from MM, but he still was the guy. Do people out there think that if he played 16 games we would have finished 4-12 or worse? If so I think you guys are crazy. I am very strongly of the opinion that if JPL had started 16 games we would have been as successful if not more successful in 2005, and more importantly more prepared for 2006. If he proves not to be what optimists think he can be, and we can upgrade our more by finding a new quarterback than by fixing other issues, then I am fine with that. But he should have started 16 games this year, and I would rather address the lines and the offensive game plan and let him start 16 times next year than see Kelly Holcomb play or than try to start again in the draft or use cap space for a free agent QB. Beating Cincy didn't make Holcomb a good quarterback, just like his big playoff game against Pittsburgh years ago didn't. Maybe there are people out there who hold out hope Holcomb will become something he is not at the moment (a playoff caliber quarterback), but I think it is a little more realistic to expect JPL to impove than KH, given age and experience. LET JP PLAY! 582236[/snapback] i can't help but wonder if this is actually....nah....can't be
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