Lori Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 Larry Schweikart, a historian at the University of Dayton, estimates that there were probably fewer than a dozen bank robberies in the entire period from 1859 through 1900 in all the frontier West. Schweikart summarizes: "The record is shockingly clear: There are more bank robberies in modern-day Dayton, Ohio, in a year than there were in the entire Old West in a decade, perhaps in the entire frontier period!" 582414[/snapback] That says more about Dayton than the old West, IMHO. Last time I drove through there after dark, we stopped for gas/ice at one of the I-70 exits. The clerk at the convenience store wouldn't even unlock the front door - had to use a card to pay for the gas, and they have a bank-drive-up-window-type drawer to send merchandise outside. Needless to say, I've never seen a setup like that anywhere near Buffalo/NW Pennsyltucky... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 That says more about Dayton than the old West, IMHO. Last time I drove through there after dark, we stopped for gas/ice at one of the I-70 exits. The clerk at the convenience store wouldn't even unlock the front door - had to use a card to pay for the gas, and they have a bank-drive-up-window-type drawer to send merchandise outside. Needless to say, I've never seen a setup like that anywhere near Buffalo/NW Pennsyltucky... 582930[/snapback] Pretty standard here in ATX. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 That says more about Dayton than the old West, IMHO. Last time I drove through there after dark, we stopped for gas/ice at one of the I-70 exits. The clerk at the convenience store wouldn't even unlock the front door - had to use a card to pay for the gas, and they have a bank-drive-up-window-type drawer to send merchandise outside. Needless to say, I've never seen a setup like that anywhere near Buffalo/NW Pennsyltucky... 582930[/snapback] That's alot more normal around the US than you think, unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IowaBill Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 Yes. There have been thieves always and always theft has been against the law and always have there been law enforcers. In the absence of a perfect result, we can either keep trying or give up. I opt to keep trying to stop theft with laws and law enforcers even though I know that will not stop all theft. "Small" governments throughout history have been just as corrupt, if not more so, as "large" governments. It is not the number of political parties nor simply the size of government that breeds corruption, it is power itself that corrupts. Those that can steal, do. A third-party, to have any effect, would have to have power but with that power would be just as likely to be corrupted as any other party. The idea that a third-party would act as a new sheriff in town to keep an eye on the other two is as quaint as it is unrealistic. Odds are it would simply become another pig at the trough. History is also replete with examples of what happens in the absence of government or some other central authority able to regulate, punish or otherwise keep lawlessness to manageable levels. The Armerican West is a good example. Over the pioneer years there was little or no government, law enforcement, regulation or any other chaos limiting mechanism aside from ones own weapons. The result was murder, mayhem, chaos and lawlessness. There is a reason we have government, it exists because we need it to exist to achieve what we can't achieve on our own which covers everything from a police force to a moon shot. That doesn't mean that anyone should be blind to corruption, to abuse, to the dark side of power. When it is discovered, let the indictments flow and let each bum caught with his hand in the till be fired by the voters. If there is a lesson to be learned here I think it is that our system of checks and balances works best when we have a divided government. You'd be surprised how effective of a deterrent it can be for Senator Bluff-n-Fuss to know that there is someone with the power and motivation to crack open his secret stash of dirty deals and dirtier dollars. ....and no, I don't think that is a perfect solution or that it will end political thievery in our time thus reversinig the course of human history. If you have some great alternative to supporting reformers, better laws, better enforcement, divided government and the like, then I'm all ears. 581566[/snapback] Mickey, you should know that AD always has an alternative to peoples posts. His alternaties, however, consist largely of the statement "lets keep on believing pour current system is working, you stupid lemmings". In this manner AD is ty[ical of many of tne posters here on PPP. I is easy and to repeatedly state their "mantra" over and over. In his case, he repeats the same thing so frequnly he has begun to believe it actually means something. Go figure. I agree our government can stand some improvement, but I think it is among the better systems in place. our point about smaller governments hit home. I live in the US Virgin Islands. While we are ostensibly a part of the United States under the revised Organic Act of 1954, we are largely self governed unincorporated territory. ABout 115,000 people live here. The government here is incredibly corrupt, on scale that would boggle your mind, given that it serves only 115,000 people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 Mickey, you should know that AD always has an alternative to peoples posts. His alternaties, however, consist largely of the statement "lets keep on believing pour current system is working, you stupid lemmings". In this manner AD is ty[ical of many of tne posters here on PPP. I is easy and to repeatedly state their "mantra" over and over. In his case, he repeats the same thing so frequnly he has begun to believe it actually means something. Go figure. I agree our government can stand some improvement, but I think it is among the better systems in place. our point about smaller governments hit home. I live in the US Virgin Islands. While we are ostensibly a part of the United States under the revised Organic Act of 1954, we are largely self governed unincorporated territory. ABout 115,000 people live here. The government here is incredibly corrupt, on scale that would boggle your mind, given that it serves only 115,000 people. 583032[/snapback] It is a push me-pull me problem as old as the hills. Government needs power to be effective and with power comes corruption. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 It is a push me-pull me problem as old as the hills. Government needs power to be effective and with power comes corruption. 583606[/snapback] Ergo, an effective government is a corrupt one. And a more effective government is a more corrupt one. ...I think there's a logical fallacy in your statement. Just maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 Mickey, you should know that AD always has an alternative to peoples posts. His alternaties, however, consist largely of the statement "lets keep on believing pour current system is working, you stupid lemmings". In this manner AD is ty[ical of many of tne posters here on PPP. I is easy and to repeatedly state their "mantra" over and over. In his case, he repeats the same thing so frequnly he has begun to believe it actually means something. Go figure. I agree our government can stand some improvement, but I think it is among the better systems in place. our point about smaller governments hit home. I live in the US Virgin Islands. While we are ostensibly a part of the United States under the revised Organic Act of 1954, we are largely self governed unincorporated territory. ABout 115,000 people live here. The government here is incredibly corrupt, on scale that would boggle your mind, given that it serves only 115,000 people. 583032[/snapback] Why don't you go ahead and explain how that goes against anything that I've said? Giving a large amount of power and money to a small group of people will virtually always lead to corruption. I've lived in a town that had fewer than 1500 residents. The Mayor was in office for 20 years and their was virtually no fiscal accountability. Finally someone qualified moved in and decided to run and the town took that person to court because he didn't have the petition signatures numbered exactly according to the law. The guy begged off the legal proceedings (because they had more money) but ran on a write in and won anyway. During the campaign, businesses in town that supported the write-in candidate got anonymous threatening letters about what would happen to them if they continued their support. Thankfully none of them backed down and the write-in candidate won in a landslide. After he got in office he hired an accounting firm to go over the "books" and found that there were literally millions of dollars missing. There were also memos found that implicated the former mayor in a payola scheme with each of the town's businesses. Apparently he had used the sheriff to rattle the locals into buying certain things from his personal business in exchange for not levying fines, etc or giving any kind of leeway to new business moving into town. It's actually easier for you partisan parrots to continue doing what you've always done than to go against things that are obviously wrong. Trillions of dollars later, you're in pretty much the same boat but your masters are richer more corrupt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 Why don't you go ahead and explain how that goes against anything that I've said? Giving a large amount of power and money to a small group of people will virtually always lead to corruption. I've lived in a town that had fewer than 1500 residents. The Mayor was in office for 20 years and their was virtually no fiscal accountability. Finally someone qualified moved in and decided to run and the town took that person to court because he didn't have the petition signatures numbered exactly according to the law. The guy begged off the legal proceedings (because they had more money) but ran on a write in and won anyway. During the campaign, businesses in town that supported the write-in candidate got anonymous threatening letters about what would happen to them if they continued their support. Thankfully none of them backed down and the write-in candidate won in a landslide. After he got in office he hired an accounting firm to go over the "books" and found that there were literally millions of dollars missing. There were also memos found that implicated the former mayor in a payola scheme with each of the town's businesses. Apparently he had used the sheriff to rattle the locals into buying certain things from his personal business in exchange for not levying fines, etc or giving any kind of leeway to new business moving into town. It's actually easier for you partisan parrots to continue doing what you've always done than to go against things that are obviously wrong. Trillions of dollars later, you're in pretty much the same boat but your masters are richer more corrupt. 583763[/snapback] well wouldn't you say it is human nature to be corrupt? God or whatever was responsible for us being created made us this way, it is highly nieve to expect anyone to act differently so the best thing to do is to elect a leader who serves your best interests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted January 25, 2006 Author Share Posted January 25, 2006 well wouldn't you say it is human nature to be corrupt? God or whatever was responsible for us being created made us this way 583792[/snapback] I wouldn't call that design very intelligent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 I wouldn't call that design very intelligent 583799[/snapback] Think of how uninteresting the world would be if there was no greed, corruption and other negative elements of human beings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 Ergo, an effective government is a corrupt one. And a more effective government is a more corrupt one. ...I think there's a logical fallacy in your statement. Just maybe. 583670[/snapback] Yes, the same fallacy every premise reaches if taken to absurd lengths. Like honesty being good, ergo it is better to tell your wife the truth, that those jeans really do make her look fat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blzrul Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 By the way, the "Conservatives" in Canada are far more liberal than many liberals here. Also take note that the liberal Democratic party in Canada picked up a bunch of seats. Like so many things one must look beyond the label... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 By the way, the "Conservatives" in Canada are far more liberal than many liberals here. 587287[/snapback] A very good point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 By the way, the "Conservatives" in Canada are far more liberal than many liberals here. Also take note that the liberal Democratic party in Canada picked up a bunch of seats. Like so many things one must look beyond the label... 587287[/snapback] yes but the other political party, the Parti Quebecois despises the liberal party and most likely they will vote in favor of many conservative bills as long as the conservative gives more power to the PQ. on another note, if the conservatives were in power when US invaded Iraq, Conservatives would have probably went to war as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 Yes, the same fallacy every premise reaches if taken to absurd lengths. Like honesty being good, ergo it is better to tell your wife the truth, that those jeans really do make her look fat. 584246[/snapback] Well...she's lost nine pounds since I've told her. And the couch is comfortable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blzrul Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 yes but the other political party, the Parti Quebecois despises the liberal party and most likely they will vote in favor of many conservative bills as long as the conservative gives more power to the PQ. on another note, if the conservatives were in power when US invaded Iraq, Conservatives would have probably went to war as well. 587345[/snapback] That may very well be true but what I'm saying is what WE consider conservative here is not the same. The conservatives in Canada, for example, favor gun control. Not so here. That was my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EC-Bills Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 Well...she's lost nine pounds since I've told her. And the couch is comfortable. 587371[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 Well...she's lost nine pounds since I've told her. And the couch is comfortable. 587371[/snapback] Good one, you are on a roll lately Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 http://news.yahoo.com/s/cpress/20060130/ca...a/gomery_report i think the conservative government is gonna be in power for a very long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 http://news.yahoo.com/s/cpress/20060130/ca...a/gomery_report i think the conservative government is gonna be in power for a very long time. 589214[/snapback] It's really surprising that a political party would use taxpayer money to keep themselves in power AND reward private entities simpathetic to the political mindset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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