JDG Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 Everyone seems to be agog over Mike Sherman, based on his past track record, and seem to be mystified that Dick Jauron is even a consideration. I think it is important to consider that stark differences in talent the two had to work with. While Dick Jauron was making do with the Jim Miller's and Anthony Thomas' of the world, Mike Sherman had one of the greatest QB's in NFL history, some solid WR's, and an outstanding RB in Ahman Green. Its hard to judge the quality of a coach who is the beneficiary of a load of talent assembled by his predecessor. Consider, for example, the run George Seifert had after taking over Bill Walsh's talent-stocked 49ers: 1996 12-4-0 2nd -- NFC West 1-1 - Lost Divisional Playoffs 1995 11-5-0 1st -- NFC West 0-1 - Lost Divisional Playoffs 1994 13-3-0 1st -- NFC West 3-0 - Won Superbowl 1993 10-6-0 1st -- NFC West 1-1 - Lost Conference Championship 1992 14-2-0 1st -- NFC West 1-1 - Lost Conference Championship 1991 10-6-0 T2nd -- NFC West 1990 14-2-0 1st -- NFC West 1-1 - Lost Conference Championship 1989 14-2-0 1st -- NFC West 3-0 - Won Superbowl That's about as solid of a coaching record as you could ever possibly hope for. And yet, George Seifert moved on to Carolina and was positively abysmal - in three years he *never* had a winning season, and he ended his tenure with a jaw-dropping 15 game losing streak in a 1-15 season. (And you think that *we* were bid this year!) So, I'm just advising people to keep a little bit of persepctive, and stop judging NFL Coaching candidates solely by prior wins and losses. JDG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsWatch Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 Stop trying to make sense! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in San Diego Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 Good point. Thanks for the sanity check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 In the long run, Seifert was good for the Panthers. They decided they needed to go out and get a good head coach, to go with all the high draft picks that Seifert had landed in his reign of ineptitude, and hired John Fox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 You could hire Bill Belichick and never win a football game. Nobody knows how things will work out. There are simply too many variables. All you can do is make the best judgement you can from the facts available. Despite what guys like Jerry Sullivan expect that a good GM/Coach/Owner ought to possess the ability to see into the future. PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyDingo Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 Shhh...be quiet or we'll hire George Seifert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 Everyone seems to be agog over Mike Sherman, based on his past track record, and seem to be mystified that Dick Jauron is even a consideration. I think it is important to consider that stark differences in talent the two had to work with. While Dick Jauron was making do with the Jim Miller's and Anthony Thomas' of the world, Mike Sherman had one of the greatest QB's in NFL history, some solid WR's, and an outstanding RB in Ahman Green. Its hard to judge the quality of a coach who is the beneficiary of a load of talent assembled by his predecessor. Consider, for example, the run George Seifert had after taking over Bill Walsh's talent-stocked 49ers: 1996 12-4-0 2nd -- NFC West 1-1 - Lost Divisional Playoffs 1995 11-5-0 1st -- NFC West 0-1 - Lost Divisional Playoffs 1994 13-3-0 1st -- NFC West 3-0 - Won Superbowl 1993 10-6-0 1st -- NFC West 1-1 - Lost Conference Championship 1992 14-2-0 1st -- NFC West 1-1 - Lost Conference Championship 1991 10-6-0 T2nd -- NFC West 1990 14-2-0 1st -- NFC West 1-1 - Lost Conference Championship 1989 14-2-0 1st -- NFC West 3-0 - Won Superbowl That's about as solid of a coaching record as you could ever possibly hope for. And yet, George Seifert moved on to Carolina and was positively abysmal - in three years he *never* had a winning season, and he ended his tenure with a jaw-dropping 15 game losing streak in a 1-15 season. (And you think that *we* were bid this year!) So, I'm just advising people to keep a little bit of persepctive, and stop judging NFL Coaching candidates solely by prior wins and losses. JDG 576538[/snapback] if we're going to go down this road, wyche may be a better comparison. cincy was good for a long time under him, and he crashed and burned in 1991 with a 3-13 record. he was fired, and quickly landed with the bucs, where he oversaw many bad teams and had a young 1st round qb with promise (dilfer). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeF Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 Living in North Carolina, this exact thought crossed my mind this week. I tried to remember some of the things that were happening in Charlotte during the Siefert years..The main thing I heard is that the work ethic of the staff may have been less than required but here are a couple of other thoughts: 1) The lines on both sides of the ball were not very deep and there were some injuries. 2) They went from 4-12 in 98 (Capers last year) to 8-8 in 99 to 7-9 in 2000 to 1-15 in 2001. Beurline was their QB the first two years Weinke the last year. They had major injuries in addition to the QB switch the next year--for example their leading rusher in 01 was Richard Huntley who was cut from the Bills in camp one or 2 years later...They won their first game that year--and then lost 15 in a row... I am not saying that Sherman can avoid this--but Siefert never built the lines--and he really forced the West Coast offense on two kind of classic drop back passers--not sure the fit was there...it was a shambles when he left--Fox has done a magnificent job turning it around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDG Posted January 21, 2006 Author Share Posted January 21, 2006 if we're going to go down this road, wyche may be a better comparison. cincy was good for a long time under him, and he crashed and burned in 1991 with a 3-13 record. he was fired, and quickly landed with the bucs, where he oversaw many bad teams and had a young 1st round qb with promise (dilfer). 576773[/snapback] Well, both Seifert and Sherman followed on the heels of a coach who had had tremendous success - Bill Walsh and Mike Holmgren. While Forrest Gregg did go to a Super Bowl in Cincy, I don't think that Wyche was exactly following the same caliber of a coach, and he definitely built his own team. JDG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Like A Mofo Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 Well Seifert was spotted in Buffalo Airport...and didnt a website this week have footage of Sherman at Buffalo Airport??? Now I see the connection! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark VI Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 I look at Sherman having a better understanding of NFL personnel, since he held GM duties for a few years in addition to being a the HC. It's not just a numbers game with me and certainly the future results of our next hire is a total guess. It's easy to attract support to your theory, simply by listing the record of Seifert upon taking over at Carolina. Then again, anyone can figure out 10 is greater than 7. Digging beyond simple win-loss records, Carolina and Jacksonville entered the NFL with completely different philosphies. Carolina owner and ex-NFL player, Jerry Richardson, had a "win now" position and cast a huge shadow over his coach, Dom Capers and GM Bill Polian. They were in The NFC champonship game in year 2 but eventually paid for the short term emphasis of Vet UFA's over building a long term product through the draft. Polian couldn't wait to bail. Jacksonville under the non-meddling owner Wayne Weaver, gave controll to Tom Coughlin to build the team for the long term. Their first 2 draft picks were 1st team All-American OT's, Tony Boselli of USC and Brian Demarco of Michigan St. Seifert walked into a no win situation with multiple older FA's like Sam Mills at the end of their career. Draft failures and Kerry Collins struggling with Booze left Seifert with little chance to succeed. I doubt anyone could have won there. So in conclusion, the GM needs to give the next coach some talent to succeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffOrange Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 Stop trying to make sense! 576637[/snapback] Yeah but but, but, Bill Bellicheck....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 Everyone seems to be agog over Mike Sherman, based on his past track record, and seem to be mystified that Dick Jauron is even a consideration. I think it is important to consider that stark differences in talent the two had to work with. While Dick Jauron was making do with the Jim Miller's and Anthony Thomas' of the world, Mike Sherman had one of the greatest QB's in NFL history, some solid WR's, and an outstanding RB in Ahman Green. Its hard to judge the quality of a coach who is the beneficiary of a load of talent assembled by his predecessor. Consider, for example, the run George Seifert had after taking over Bill Walsh's talent-stocked 49ers: 1996 12-4-0 2nd -- NFC West 1-1 - Lost Divisional Playoffs 1995 11-5-0 1st -- NFC West 0-1 - Lost Divisional Playoffs 1994 13-3-0 1st -- NFC West 3-0 - Won Superbowl 1993 10-6-0 1st -- NFC West 1-1 - Lost Conference Championship 1992 14-2-0 1st -- NFC West 1-1 - Lost Conference Championship 1991 10-6-0 T2nd -- NFC West 1990 14-2-0 1st -- NFC West 1-1 - Lost Conference Championship 1989 14-2-0 1st -- NFC West 3-0 - Won Superbowl That's about as solid of a coaching record as you could ever possibly hope for. And yet, George Seifert moved on to Carolina and was positively abysmal - in three years he *never* had a winning season, and he ended his tenure with a jaw-dropping 15 game losing streak in a 1-15 season. (And you think that *we* were bid this year!) So, I'm just advising people to keep a little bit of persepctive, and stop judging NFL Coaching candidates solely by prior wins and losses. JDG 576538[/snapback] Hmmm. After reading your post for the fourth time, or so...it occurs to me that YOU'RE judging Seifert by his W-L record in Carolina. i don't think he was as good of a coach as W-L record in SF indicates (although, I'll never understand why they ran him out of town for Mooch). And I don't think he was as bad of a coach as his W-L record in Carolina. That was a bad situation all around, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 Shhh...be quiet or we'll hire George Seifert. 576729[/snapback] He WAS seen at the Buffalo airport, you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 Well, Sherman (or whomever) doesn't have to worry about taking over a premier franchise with a boat load of talent that's cruised through their division for the past decade and is suddenly facing the era of aging player icons and free agency. No, Sherman (or whomever) will need to bring some semblance of maturity to the HC position and a sense of order to the operations on the field. This franchise needs to regain its respectability. There's little need to worry that the next HC can't win the big one right away when a more realistic series of goals to achieve over the next few years is to get back to the playoffs, win the division, win a road playoff game, get home field advantage throughout the playoffs, THEN get to and win the big dance. The progress will be easy to keep track of. It's called the Won/Lost record - something that TD et al never impressed that they were very concerned about. The other hidden metric nugget is the W/L record vs. divisional opponents - which TD and his goons were clueless about. They seemed more obsessed with the AFC North than NE, NYJ, and Dieami. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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