bryce fisher

[dave mcbride]

Would I like to have him now, in retrospect, without having to wait for him to be good? Sure. Would I be a GM in the league if I had to wait five and a half years before a player starts realizing his potential? No. Was it a glaring mistake, or a mistake at all, to let Bryce Fisher go after he showed very little for us for three training camps and a full season here, and then see him pick up his game quick as a snail for two and a half more years later when he finally developed into a solid player? No. I like the guy. It's a great story. I wish he would have played better for us. But to blame any general manager who cuts a guy and three years later that player is good is just plain wrong. There are dozens of other things to blame TD for.

575199[/snapback]

all things considered and with 20/20 hindsight, he shouldn't have been let go -- after all, a gm and a coach's job is to *project* -- but all the same i can't fault the mostly inept prior regime for this one. at a certain point you've gotta win now and players gotta produce, and you can't wait forever. and who knows? maybe kelsay will approach 10 sacks next year. sometimes, it takes time for the light to go on. and sometimes, they never pan out. it's probably about the hardest thing to predict in the league.

 

it does make me think, though, that the bills would be wise to keep josh reed. i have a sneaking suspicion that the light went on for him this year.

[bills_fan_in_raleigh]

turned out to be a solid NFL starting end, did well in STL and is doing well in seattle.

 

7th round pick.

 

why did we let him go?

 

oh, that's right.

 

TD.

we have let too much talent go in the past 5 years, we are like the raptors

574812[/snapback]

I think many on thos board thought that Bryce was another wasted pick etc. Look at ex Bills having impact for their teams and sometimes in positions we sorely need.

[Kelly the Dog]

all things considered and with 20/20 hindsight, he shouldn't have been let go -- after all, a gm and a coach's job is to *project* -- but all the same i can't fault the mostly inept prior regime for this one. at a certain point you've gotta win now and players gotta produce, and you can't wait forever. and who knows? maybe kelsay will approach 10 sacks next year. sometimes, it takes time for the light to go on. and sometimes, they never pan out. it's probably about the hardest thing to predict in the league. 

 

it does make me think, though, that the bills would be wise to keep josh reed. i have a sneaking suspicion that the light went on for him this year.

575216[/snapback]

I agree. I think they should keep Josh. And you're absolutely right, these are terribly difficult decisions. You simply can't wait on a guy for 5+ years though, nor be criticized for not "seeing it" when you watch and the guy does very little. And does very little for a couple years for the next GM. I remember watching Bryce Fisher too. And remember seeing a great athlete without a lot of weight who made a highlight reel sack every 6-7 games and do very little against the rush and put very little pressure on the QB on the other plays.

[colin]

if we kept washington i'd bet with williams and washington as the middle our 4-3 bryce and schoble on our edges would have looked better than they did all the time.

 

remember what washington did for the pats in their second super bowl year?

 

given the roster we had that might have been us

 

:<

[beerme1]

Does Thomas Smith fit into this topic also?

[GG]

I agree. I think they should keep Josh. And you're absolutely right, these are terribly difficult decisions. You simply can't wait on a guy for 5+ years though, nor be criticized for not "seeing it" when you watch and the guy does very little. And does very little for a couple years for the next GM. I remember watching Bryce Fisher too. And remember seeing a great athlete without a lot of weight who made a highlight reel sack every 6-7 games and do very little against the rush and put very little pressure on the QB on the other plays.

575230[/snapback]

 

I hate to take the contrarian position to my usual role of railing against hindsight analysis. But, as in select cases when I go against my grain, I use hindsight to gauge a personnel decision based on the alternatives available at the time.

 

Thusly... Even with the Chidi signing in '02, and the prophetic drafting of Denney, there was room on the roster for DEs, yet the administration chose Grant Irons & Kendrick Office over Fisher. And here we are.

 

It's just emblematic of the personnel decisions that have not panned out for TD's era. I don't get into the game of blasting him for picking a player in Position A vs a player in Position B, because there was a likely good reason they had priorities at Position A. But, they should be called out when a handful of players in Position A picked after the Bills performed better. That's as pure of a sign of personnel evaluation or selection problem as you can get.

[Kelly the Dog]

I hate to take the contrarian position to my usual role of railing against hindsight analysis.  But, as in select cases when I go against my grain, I use hindsight to gauge a personnel decision based on the alternatives available at the time.

 

Thusly...  Even with the Chidi signing in '02, and the prophetic drafting of Denney, there was room on the roster for DEs, yet the administration chose Grant Irons & Kendrick Office over Fisher.  And here we are.

 

It's just emblematic of the personnel decisions that have not panned out for TD's era.  I don't get into the game of blasting him for picking a player in Position A vs a player in Position B, because there was a likely good reason they had priorities at Position A.  But, they should be called out when a handful of players in Position A picked after the Bills performed better.  That's as pure of a sign of personnel evaluation or selection problem as you can get.

575301[/snapback]

Grant Irons had one sack less than Bryce Fisher after two years away from the Bills. Chidi's had 15 sacks since he was gone from the Bills. Should we have kept on to them, too? If you want to say it was a minor mistake by TD not keeping onto Bryce Fisher for his full contract, and then re-signing him to a veteran contract after he had done absolutely nothing, feel free.

[colin]

I hate to take the contrarian position to my usual role of railing against hindsight analysis.  But, as in select cases when I go against my grain, I use hindsight to gauge a personnel decision based on the alternatives available at the time.

 

Thusly...  Even with the Chidi signing in '02, and the prophetic drafting of Denney, there was room on the roster for DEs, yet the administration chose Grant Irons & Kendrick Office over Fisher.  And here we are.

 

It's just emblematic of the personnel decisions that have not panned out for TD's era.  I don't get into the game of blasting him for picking a player in Position A vs a player in Position B, because there was a likely good reason they had priorities at Position A.  But, they should be called out when a handful of players in Position A picked after the Bills performed better.  That's as pure of a sign of personnel evaluation or selection problem as you can get.

575301[/snapback]

 

part of it might be the moron coaches who gw brought in with him who had no experience before making crap evaluations

 

still goes back to TD

[GG]

Grant Irons had one sack less than Bryce Fisher after two years away from the Bills. Chidi's had 15 sacks since he was gone from the Bills. Should we have kept on to them, too? If you want to say it was a minor mistake by TD not keeping onto Bryce Fisher for his full contract, and then re-signing him to a veteran contract after he had done absolutely nothing, feel free. 

575323[/snapback]

 

That's where we differ. I don't think that Fisher had done nothing in Buffalo, and looked good as a situational pass rusher in '01. Whether it was realistic to expect that he would blossom into a very good DE within 5 years is not as big of a question as whether he was a better player in 2002 than Grant Irons & Kendrick Office.

 

The only true "off-year" that he had was 2002, and it's tough to judge on that year, as he was signed by Rams after training camp. In '03, even as a backup his stats were better than Denney, Kelsay, Irons, & Ahanatou.

[dave mcbride]

That's where we differ.  I don't think that Fisher had done nothing in Buffalo, and looked good as a situational pass rusher in '01.  Whether it was realistic to expect that he would blossom into a very good DE within 5 years is not as big of a question as whether he was a better player in 2002 than Grant Irons & Kendrick Office.

 

The only true "off-year" that he had was 2002, and it's tough to judge on that year, as he was signed by Rams after training camp.  In '03, even as a backup his stats were better than Denney, Kelsay, Irons, & Ahanatou.

575368[/snapback]

grant irons and kendrick office: i had succesfully blocked those names from my mind until now. thanks a lot.

[Kelly the Dog]

That's where we differ.  I don't think that Fisher had done nothing in Buffalo, and looked good as a situational pass rusher in '01.  Whether it was realistic to expect that he would blossom into a very good DE within 5 years is not as big of a question as whether he was a better player in 2002 than Grant Irons & Kendrick Office.

 

The only true "off-year" that he had was 2002, and it's tough to judge on that year, as he was signed by Rams after training camp.  In '03, even as a backup his stats were better than Denney, Kelsay, Irons, & Ahanatou.

575368[/snapback]

Fair enough, but the point is really that if we kept him his contract would have run out, and he would have had to be re-signed to a FA contract after showing precious little in four years AFTER 2002 I believe. I thought he showed that he had some talent. I wouldn't have been pissed if he was resigned at a veteran minimum for a year or two as a backup. But that still is hindsight.