Mile High Posted January 17, 2006 Posted January 17, 2006 Let me ask you guys a question: did the Packers dodge a bullet by not hiring Wade Phillips? (He interviewed for the position) I personally like the hiring of Mike McCarthy as the new Packers HC 570460[/snapback] I really liked Wade and what he brought to the table here. He may have been a good fit for the Packers organization. If memory serves me right he was 29-19 with the Bills. To me he didn't get a fair shake. I thought he was a good coach.
AJ Love Posted January 17, 2006 Posted January 17, 2006 Under Bates, the Packers ranked first against the pass, 23rd against the run, tied for 26th in takeaways and tied for 19th in points allowed.
Alfer Posted January 17, 2006 Posted January 17, 2006 Mike Sherman is one of the best coaches in the NFL, and if he winds up in Bills land, he and Losman will be enough to make me watch every Bills game this season. TT was an idiot for firing Sherman after refusing to stock the team with quality players last off season and watching the packers try to win in the NFL with NFLE talent. Sherman is a hell of a cook if you've got the ingredients.
inkman Posted January 17, 2006 Posted January 17, 2006 Let me ask you guys a question: did the Packers dodge a bullet by not hiring Wade Phillips? (He interviewed for the position) I personally like the hiring of Mike McCarthy as the new Packers HC 570460[/snapback] Well, if you wanted a coach that didn't wear a headset, then Wade was your guy. He really took a lot of grief for that and his "well, I don't really know" press conferences. Just be thankful the term puntcatcher will never be echoed in GB.
Bill from NYC Posted January 17, 2006 Posted January 17, 2006 Let me ask you guys a question: did the Packers dodge a bullet by not hiring Wade Phillips? (He interviewed for the position) I personally like the hiring of Mike McCarthy as the new Packers HC 570460[/snapback] Tough to say. Wade is certainly one of the great defensive minds of the game. Going all the way back to Denver, the man built good defenses. I also think that he was a great judge of talent. Under Wade, Ted Washington and Bryce Paup were brought in as UFAs, and I am thinking that Wade had a hand in doing so. Our defense improved almost instantly. I don't think that he was a great game day coach, but he is clearly superior to what we have had since his departure. Anyway, dodge a bullet? I would say no. Your team seems to need rebuilding, and history tells us that Wade would have at the very least built you a solid defense for years to come. I hope that he gets another chance.
Mark VI Posted January 17, 2006 Posted January 17, 2006 Interesting perspectives. I'd still take him over the other mentioned candidates, including Hazmat the disaster.
CaliforniaCheez Posted January 17, 2006 Posted January 17, 2006 Be careful what you read at Packer Chatters. Theses are the people who hated Sherman for making the playoffs 4 years in a row and "didn't get to the Super Bowl". They may remember last week but not the whole of Sherman's record. Many cannot seperate Sherman the Coach from Sherman the GM. Sherman was a High School teacher who got into coaching and stayed with it. His style is to teach. He was a Tight Ends coach as will keep the 2nd and 3rd string TE rather than cut them and try someone new. Good points He is very organized and things are well planned. He can also deal with contigencies. He usually has a Plan B and a Plan C in case things go wrong. Very prepared. The team will look a little different each week based on the game plan. His best game plans are for the second game against a divisional opponent. Those are the games to bet money on. He is emotionally stable. He is not a screamer. He earns respect. He is not a weasel who will blame others. He has great psychology. He knows when to push the team and when to ease off. He doesn't play psycho games but knows when to run drills with or without pads, give days off, or use pads and live tackling all week. The team is even keeled because he is. Great coach most of the year. During games especially when pressure comes he will call a higher percentage play. No Mike Martz gambling or trick gadget plays. He gets criticized for not going on 4th down that much. He can call the plays or delegate it and has done well with both. Players like him because he is honest and straightforward. Negative points He monitors the assistant coaches rather closely. He hates miscommunication. He want the assistant to be telling the player the same thing he is saying. He wants the player getting the same message so there is no confusion or locker room politics. If a players blocking or tackling is not good enough for him to start that is the message and he better work on it. Sherman makes sure every player knows where he stands. Some assistant coaches don't like this but the players love it. Everything is in the open. He is not photogenic or dynamic at press conferences. He may appear boring. He will not say anything stupid or upsetting to anyone. He is not controversial. The most fire in him is after a personal foul, late hit, cheap shot or things like it. Quickest way to get benched is to be a dirty player. He hates trash talking. The player is not concentrating and refs don't like it either. He has worked offenses and not defenses. Slow starts to games and seasons. First quarter can look flat but then get it together. Best quarter is 3rd quarter after half time adjustments. For a season the losses happen early. The team could go 2-4, start clicking and finish 11-5. For all his planning and work he usually revises and can put together nice winning streaks. He had GM duties put upon him when he had no experience in personnel. He had some bad drafts like 03 when he trade the 94th and 127th picks to Bills for the 79th pick(Kenny Peterson) which was a bust. 94 was Angelo Crowell and 127 was Sam Aiken. Some will say Sherman was too predictable this year with the offense. This is a hollow argument. Six starting RB's went down. Two OG's were new. 2 WR's missed almost all the season 2 missed parts of year and at times had only one healthy TE. Playing a lot of rookies then street free agents, the offense could not do anything too fancy. The Offensive coordinator should not have been fired let alone Sherman. The positives far outweigh the negatives. Extra Points Sherman scouted heavily Losman and wanted to draft him but Losman was off the board by the time Sherman drafted. I looked at the Bills heavily in preseason when they were on NFL network. I thought there was a lot of talent. I did not see much of them during the season being on the opposite coast. I thought the Bills were playoff caliber. I think it is the type of team well suited for Sherman. Sherman is best for the Bills then maybe the disaster of New Orleans. He would be a bad fit for Oakland and Kansas City. I wish Sherman well. The new GM waited 8 months and gave Sherman a two year extension then fired him 4 months later. There was no reason given for the firing. Sherman had five years of winning records after taking over a team on the decline after the Super Bowl run in late nineties. This was his first losing record. Many games were close this year check the scores of Packer games. I wish the Bills well. It is a good organization and I hope that in the future that shared practices and a scrimmage can be done again. There were no problems or incidents.
Bill from NYC Posted January 17, 2006 Posted January 17, 2006 Be careful what you read at Packer Chatters. Theses are the people who hated Sherman for making the playoffs 4 years in a row and "didn't get to the Super Bowl". They may remember last week but not the whole of Sherman's record. Many cannot seperate Sherman the Coach from Sherman the GM. Sherman was a High School teacher who got into coaching and stayed with it. His style is to teach. He was a Tight Ends coach as will keep the 2nd and 3rd string TE rather than cut them and try someone new. Good points He is very organized and things are well planned. He can also deal with contigencies. He usually has a Plan B and a Plan C in case things go wrong. Very prepared. The team will look a little different each week based on the game plan. His best game plans are for the second game against a divisional opponent. Those are the games to bet money on. He is emotionally stable. He is not a screamer. He earns respect. He is not a weasel who will blame others. He has great psychology. He knows when to push the team and when to ease off. He doesn't play psycho games but knows when to run drills with or without pads, give days off, or use pads and live tackling all week. The team is even keeled because he is. Great coach most of the year. During games especially when pressure comes he will call a higher percentage play. No Mike Martz gambling or trick gadget plays. He gets criticized for not going on 4th down that much. He can call the plays or delegate it and has done well with both. Players like him because he is honest and straightforward. Negative points He monitors the assistant coaches rather closely. He hates miscommunication. He want the assistant to be telling the player the same thing he is saying. He wants the player getting the same message so there is no confusion or locker room politics. If a players blocking or tackling is not good enough for him to start that is the message and he better work on it. Sherman makes sure every player knows where he stands. Some assistant coaches don't like this but the players love it. Everything is in the open. He is not photogenic or dynamic at press conferences. He may appear boring. He will not say anything stupid or upsetting to anyone. He is not controversial. The most fire in him is after a personal foul, late hit, cheap shot or things like it. Quickest way to get benched is to be a dirty player. He hates trash talking. The player is not concentrating and refs don't like it either. He has worked offenses and not defenses. Slow starts to games and seasons. First quarter can look flat but then get it together. Best quarter is 3rd quarter after half time adjustments. For a season the losses happen early. The team could go 2-4, start clicking and finish 11-5. For all his planning and work he usually revises and can put together nice winning streaks. He had GM duties put upon him when he had no experience in personnel. He had some bad drafts like 03 when he trade the 94th and 127th picks to Bills for the 79th pick(Kenny Peterson) which was a bust. 94 was Angelo Crowell and 127 was Sam Aiken. Some will say Sherman was too predictable this year with the offense. This is a hollow argument. Six starting RB's went down. Two OG's were new. 2 WR's missed almost all the season 2 missed parts of year and at times had only one healthy TE. Playing a lot of rookies then street free agents, the offense could not do anything too fancy. The Offensive coordinator should not have been fired let alone Sherman. The positives far outweigh the negatives. Extra Points Sherman scouted heavily Losman and wanted to draft him but Losman was off the board by the time Sherman drafted. I looked at the Bills heavily in preseason when they were on NFL network. I thought there was a lot of talent. I did not see much of them during the season being on the opposite coast. I thought the Bills were playoff caliber. I think it is the type of team well suited for Sherman. Sherman is best for the Bills then maybe the disaster of New Orleans. He would be a bad fit for Oakland and Kansas City. I wish Sherman well. The new GM waited 8 months and gave Sherman a two year extension then fired him 4 months later. There was no reason given for the firing. Sherman had five years of winning records after taking over a team on the decline after the Super Bowl run in late nineties. This was his first losing record. Many games were close this year check the scores of Packer games. I wish the Bills well. It is a good organization and I hope that in the future that shared practices and a scrimmage can be done again. There were no problems or incidents. 570523[/snapback] Thanks for an excellent post. One could not ask for a better synopsis. Don't be a stranger around here, OK?
Alaska Darin Posted January 17, 2006 Posted January 17, 2006 Let me ask you guys a question: did the Packers dodge a bullet by not hiring Wade Phillips? (He interviewed for the position) I personally like the hiring of Mike McCarthy as the new Packers HC 570460[/snapback] I don't think you dodged a bullet. Wade is a good head coach, despite what the retards here say. He was 29-19 as our HC with virtually no marquee players on the roster. I think Wade is alot like Sherman in that he's too loyal to his people but if that's the worst thing you can say about someone... The biggest complaint most people had about Wade was he didn't wear a headset. He was also one of the best defensive minds in the NFL, a fact that has been driven home since he left.
inkman Posted January 17, 2006 Posted January 17, 2006 So when do we hire Mike Sherman? Probably never.
scribo Posted January 17, 2006 Posted January 17, 2006 Thanks for all the insight. It is very enlighting. I try not to focus on negatives, but it seems the prevailing opinion is that Sherman makes poor mid-game adjustments, is not a good motivator, is a predictable play-caller, and may not be suited for developing young players -- well, that sounds a lot like the guy who just quit the Bills. But he is highly organized? Well, that sounds too much like Gregg Williams. But I really like hearing he is conservative and focuses on using TEs.
Zac Posted January 17, 2006 Posted January 17, 2006 Thanks for all the insight. It is very enlighting. I try not to focus on negatives, but it seems the prevailing opinion is that Sherman makes poor mid-game adjustment But I really like hearing he is conservative and focuses on using TEs. 570544[/snapback] Slow starts to games and seasons. First quarter can look flat but then get it together. Best quarter is 3rd quarter after half time adjustments. For a season the losses happen early. The team could go 2-4, start clicking and finish 11-5. For all his planning and work he usually revises and can put together nice winning streaks. Not according to "CaliforniaCheez" who appeared to be the most objective.
scribo Posted January 17, 2006 Posted January 17, 2006 Not according to "CaliforniaCheez" who appeared to be the most objective. 570552[/snapback] I really appreciate everyone's input -- especially CaliforniaCheez's, as he seemingly put the most effort into this -- but saying that CaliforniaCheez was the most objective is ridiculous. He clearly likes Sherman. Even the "negative points" in his post are quite positive. The fact that he focuses on communication is bad? It's a minus that he benches dirty players? I'm not going to take the time right now to quote each of the other posters who said Sherman has trouble with game-day adjustments, but I believe far more said that he has trouble making adjustments during the game.
Bear Posted January 17, 2006 Posted January 17, 2006 The question I have for all of you is this: Put in a division coaching against Bill Belichick, Nick Saban and now Mangini (lets assume he is at least competent), will Sherman compete??
Thorolf Posted January 17, 2006 Posted January 17, 2006 CaliforniaCheez likes Sherman, but more importantly he hates Ted Thompson. The long and short of it is, Sherman is not a stud coach that will flat-out outcoach the guy on the other sideline. He is good at a lot of things, and has some significant flaws. Many of the good things have been mentioned. He's a tireless worker. He knows, and loves, the game. The players, particularly the "team players" love him, and he loves them. One of the "good" things that I think was not mentioned is one you all should like - I believe that Larry Beightol stands a pretty good chance of following Sherman to his next job. Under Beightol, the Packer offensive line was one of the most dominant in the league - at least until this year when it was torn up by injuries and free agency and the personnel was simply not up to the task. But, Sherman does have a problem with micromanagement and he is not a great gameday coach. Don't let anyone gloss those things over - they're pretty important aspects. The team has also rarely started the season fast. The Packers under Sherman were always much better for the second 2/3s of the year than the first 1/3. That said, I always prefer to finish strong then to finish weak - but it rarely seemed to help all that much come the playoffs. Incidentally, this past year third quarter defensive performance was better than the other quarters (Points Allowed: Q1-88 Q2-100 Q3-59 Q4-97), but was putrid offensively (Points Scored: Q1-77 Q2-100 Q3-36 Q4-82). I think people forget that Sherman has been on the hotseat for the last few years and gloss over his faults because it helps them in their criticism of our GM - which I have seen from fans of several organizations. Sherman is definitely a solid coach, and could be very good. But make no mistake - I think he has some pretty glaring flaws to work through.
Thorolf Posted January 17, 2006 Posted January 17, 2006 The question I have for all of you is this: Put in a division coaching against Bill Belichick, Nick Saban and now Mangini (lets assume he is at least competent), will Sherman compete?? 570643[/snapback] Bill Belichick was horrible in Cleveland. He learned some things and applied them when he got to New England. Sherman's success or failure in the AFC East would depend on what, if anything, he adjusts heading into his next job. I think Sherman deserves a head coaching job and can be competitive. Heck, even at 4-12 I think only a fool would say the Packers weren't at least competitive this year. Far too many games were too close to call until the end of the fourth quarter to say otherwise. He just needs to address a few issues...
crackur Posted January 17, 2006 Posted January 17, 2006 word I think we shoudl grab him the pack would have been better this year if they didnt lose their best wideout
buffalo mike2 Posted January 17, 2006 Posted January 17, 2006 Be careful what you read at Packer Chatters. Theses are the people who hated Sherman for making the playoffs 4 years in a row and "didn't get to the Super Bowl". They may remember last week but not the whole of Sherman's record. Many cannot seperate Sherman the Coach from Sherman the GM. Sherman was a High School teacher who got into coaching and stayed with it. His style is to teach. He was a Tight Ends coach as will keep the 2nd and 3rd string TE rather than cut them and try someone new. Good points He is very organized and things are well planned. He can also deal with contigencies. He usually has a Plan B and a Plan C in case things go wrong. Very prepared. The team will look a little different each week based on the game plan. His best game plans are for the second game against a divisional opponent. Those are the games to bet money on. He is emotionally stable. He is not a screamer. He earns respect. He is not a weasel who will blame others. He has great psychology. He knows when to push the team and when to ease off. He doesn't play psycho games but knows when to run drills with or without pads, give days off, or use pads and live tackling all week. The team is even keeled because he is. Great coach most of the year. During games especially when pressure comes he will call a higher percentage play. No Mike Martz gambling or trick gadget plays. He gets criticized for not going on 4th down that much. He can call the plays or delegate it and has done well with both. Players like him because he is honest and straightforward. Negative points He monitors the assistant coaches rather closely. He hates miscommunication. He want the assistant to be telling the player the same thing he is saying. He wants the player getting the same message so there is no confusion or locker room politics. If a players blocking or tackling is not good enough for him to start that is the message and he better work on it. Sherman makes sure every player knows where he stands. Some assistant coaches don't like this but the players love it. Everything is in the open. He is not photogenic or dynamic at press conferences. He may appear boring. He will not say anything stupid or upsetting to anyone. He is not controversial. The most fire in him is after a personal foul, late hit, cheap shot or things like it. Quickest way to get benched is to be a dirty player. He hates trash talking. The player is not concentrating and refs don't like it either. He has worked offenses and not defenses. Slow starts to games and seasons. First quarter can look flat but then get it together. Best quarter is 3rd quarter after half time adjustments. For a season the losses happen early. The team could go 2-4, start clicking and finish 11-5. For all his planning and work he usually revises and can put together nice winning streaks. He had GM duties put upon him when he had no experience in personnel. He had some bad drafts like 03 when he trade the 94th and 127th picks to Bills for the 79th pick(Kenny Peterson) which was a bust. 94 was Angelo Crowell and 127 was Sam Aiken. Some will say Sherman was too predictable this year with the offense. This is a hollow argument. Six starting RB's went down. Two OG's were new. 2 WR's missed almost all the season 2 missed parts of year and at times had only one healthy TE. Playing a lot of rookies then street free agents, the offense could not do anything too fancy. The Offensive coordinator should not have been fired let alone Sherman. The positives far outweigh the negatives. Extra Points Sherman scouted heavily Losman and wanted to draft him but Losman was off the board by the time Sherman drafted. I looked at the Bills heavily in preseason when they were on NFL network. I thought there was a lot of talent. I did not see much of them during the season being on the opposite coast. I thought the Bills were playoff caliber. I think it is the type of team well suited for Sherman. Sherman is best for the Bills then maybe the disaster of New Orleans. He would be a bad fit for Oakland and Kansas City. I wish Sherman well. The new GM waited 8 months and gave Sherman a two year extension then fired him 4 months later. There was no reason given for the firing. Sherman had five years of winning records after taking over a team on the decline after the Super Bowl run in late nineties. This was his first losing record. Many games were close this year check the scores of Packer games. I wish the Bills well. It is a good organization and I hope that in the future that shared practices and a scrimmage can be done again. There were no problems or incidents. 570523[/snapback] You bring up an excellent point about Losman. I think that will be the deciding point in the interview- if indeed the organization is full steam ahead with Losman.
AJ Love Posted January 17, 2006 Posted January 17, 2006 The question I have for all of you is this: Put in a division coaching against Bill Belichick, Nick Saban and now Mangini (lets assume he is at least competent), will Sherman compete?? 570643[/snapback] I think, despite alot of my negative comments about Sherman, that it is possible. Remember, Belichek got run out of Cleveland before he found his coaching feet. My gut feeling is that deep down Sherman's style of play is run first, solid defense, relatively conservative play, but that he got away from that style in either not being willing to or being unable to to rein in Brett Favre. Continually Favre has thrown passes up for grabs in recent seasons. most unfortunately in the playoffs, and Sherman did little about it... perhaps on a new team Sherman's style would come together better... as mentioned, it is no secret that he thinks very highly of Losman and would have drafted him Because Sherman's teams always seemed to start out slow in games as well as seasons and then he adjusted, it is entirely possible that he will make similar adjustments for the better the 2nd time around as a HC... if he fails it certainly wouldn't be for lack of effort As you can see, Packers fans are very divided in our opinions of Sherman. The truth, more than likely, is that he was neither as good or as bad as some of us think.
Fan in Chicago Posted January 17, 2006 Posted January 17, 2006 Putting all these discussions in perspective: We know what these ex-HCs have done in their previous jobs (known devil) as compared to some hot-shot co-ordinator who we know squat about as a HC. Short of getting a winning HC out of retirement, Sherman looks like the best option out there. I highly doubt the current management will take chances on yet another coordinator.
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