Bill from NYC Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 That's sometimes true, but in this case, Brown was playing well for Buffalo.CW 569485[/snapback] And you base this on what? The high sack totals or the low amounts of rushing yardage that we were piling up at the end of his stay? Imo, Ruben wasn't playing very well at the end. He wasn't Bennie Anderson bad mind you, but he had lost weight and gained a tude as I recall. I see similarities with Moulds. His performance is often lacking and at his age, he has no real stake in the future of this team. We can keep him around and let him cash huge checks while we watch him with a sentimental eye, or cut the chord and go after younger players who we can build around. You can't keep these guys forever. Jmo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BackInDaDay Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 brown, pat williams, prelou (however you spell it), antoine, jonas, bledsoe, price, reimersma, centers all those guys were cast off as donahoe moves. some of them were better than others, but the big ting is they all got ditched without proper replacements. he did an ok job replacing some guys, but he seems out of touch with what players to retain 569501[/snapback] I would think that most GMs have a list of players who aren't performing well enough to warrant their compensation. When the opportunity presents itself, they're asked to cut their pay, or they're cut loose. These players are thought of as over-priced. TD was an open advocate of how the Patriots' front office selected personnel. His holy grail became theirs - the bargain player - the undervalued stock that takes off and brings big returns. Rather than tying up much of the club's payroll with what the coaching staff has determined to be under-achievers, the "bargain players" are brought in to replace them. This type of player is versatile - can play multiple positions; has a relatively low cost in terms of compensation - whether it's a low draft pick, FA contract, or trade; and is available - allows the release of an "over-priced" player. I think Donahoe's problem with trying to execute this philosophy was not properly recognizing the impact to the on-field product of down-grading at certain positions. Which brings us back to your point of players being "ditched without proper replacements". This is where one can argue the neccessity of having an experienced head coach. A head coach who, along with his staff, is capable of assessing talent and stands firm in his evaluations. It may be necessary to over-pay a player to maintain the production that player's unit is producing. Sometimes the bargain isn't a bargain, after all. For instance, if Gray discussed Pat Williams importance to his D packages and how he didn't have a capable replacement on the roster, then Mularkey had to make a strong case to Donahoe of keeping him or finding someone as good. So why was Pat released without a "proper replacement"? Because Donahoe stubbornly adhered to his "bargain player" philosophy. Corey Simon, although a suitable replacement, was no bargain. Edwards, Andersen and Sape were. That's why they were on the roster. Finacially speaking, it made sense, but it was a short-sighted decision in a football sense. The Bill's '05 roster is filled with under-achieving players. Using Donahoe's philosophy they would all be targets. We need a new head coach who can work with Levy in setting a course for this team that can be achieved. Set goals for the team that can be achieved. Set goals for the players that can be achieved. Give the '05 under-achievers a chance to live up to their contracts and you'll discover a locker-room full of bargains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubes Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 The only time I recall Brown's name being mentioned in the game yeterday was when they pointed out his key block on a screen pass that gained about 20 yards toward the end of the game. On further review, the replay showed that Brown was out in front on the screen but didn't block anybody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 Name one player that was "run out of town" by the fans. One. Okay, Bill Buckner - but let's keep this to football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 Name one player that was "run out of town" by the fans.One. Okay, Bill Buckner - but let's keep this to football. 569626[/snapback] Wasn't there a pitcher, who was real wild who got tossed. Aiken or something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 Ruben Brown was let go because of two reasons. 1) He got into a nasty disagreement with the coaching staff and it turned extremely ugly. He basically got suspended unofficially and the Bills brass labeled him a quitter and team cancer. 2) He was making a large amount of jack. If anything is clear at this point, it is that Tom Donahoe does not value lineman. Clearing millions off the payroll, millions wasted by John Butler on a useless lineman, probably help TD stroke his ego for months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 i don't recall a lot of folks unhappy to see him go....... 569598[/snapback] when Rueben was let go, most folks on TSW were still under the effects of Tom Donahoe brand Kool-Aid® Brown had just had a serious falling out with the coaching staff. Only someone who wasn't with the program would do that. And if you're not with the program you're against it that, and Rueben's cap cost which folks wanted to spend on <insert free agent that never came here> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKC Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 Ruben had only 2 false starts in the 2005 season. He is credited with giving up 1.5 sacks. Bennie Anderson saved us a bunch of money while allowing 6 sacks and being called 5 times for false starts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 How much money did the Bills really save though? They had some dead cap space on Bledsoe last year, right? The QB position has become a revolving door position. Some people are clamouring for new WRs, TEs, and RBs and others want a whole new line... Penny wise and pound stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_wag Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 How much money did the Bills really save though? They had some dead cap space on Bledsoe last year, right? The QB position has become a revolving door position. Some people are clamouring for new WRs, TEs, and RBs and others want a whole new line... Penny wise and pound stupid. 569746[/snapback] i believe the dead cap after cutting brown was in the 5M range.......significantly more then it would have been to keep him, especially considering the fact he had offered to take a pay cut to stay....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 Penny wise 569746[/snapback] Oh yes they float Georgie, they ALL float down here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BackInDaDay Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 Ruben had only 2 false starts in the 2005 season. He is credited with giving up 1.5 sacks. Bennie Anderson saved us a bunch of money while allowing 6 sacks and being called 5 times for false starts. 569729[/snapback] Exactly. Now had Bennie's negative numbers been half that - 3/3 for instance - and his positives included good drive blocking skills accompanied by quickness to pull for leads and traps, Donahoe would have struck gold. Unfortunately Bennie's a one dimensional run blocker. His low payroll hit doesn't translate into good football skills. He's a downgrade that Donahoe was willing to make regardless of, or because of, advice from Mularkey and McNally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted January 16, 2006 Author Share Posted January 16, 2006 i didnt mean to start all that ....just noticed a left guards outstanding play...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BackInDaDay Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 i didnt mean to start all that ....just noticed a left guards outstanding play...... 569862[/snapback] Well, now look what you've done! You and that darn monkey... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BackInDaDay Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 That's actually quite an impressive O-line they assmbeled in Chicago. I'm pretty sure that Tait, Brown and Miller were all FA pickups within the last couple years. Don't know about the other two guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarthur31 Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 That's EXACTLY right! I remember doing analysis of Brown's last season here, going over every play and counting the number of false starts he had. It was some ridiculously low number like 2 or 3 for the entire season. Another example of a player who was run out of town by the stupid Bills fans. CW 569385[/snapback] Another GREAT move by TD and TBD fans! Just like Ted Washington and Pat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 That's actually quite an impressive O-line they assmbeled in Chicago. I'm pretty sure that Tait, Brown and Miller were all FA pickups within the last couple years. Don't know about the other two guys. 569875[/snapback] So Chicago can take a bunch of scrubs and a TRUE rookie non-first round QB in Orten and win. Who is the Oline coach. Because our Oline coach takes players from good running teams (Teague from Denver, Anderson from Baltimore), plus some 1st rounders in Williams and makes them look bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted January 16, 2006 Author Share Posted January 16, 2006 That's actually quite an impressive O-line they assmbeled in Chicago. I'm pretty sure that Tait, Brown and Miller were all FA pickups within the last couple years. Don't know about the other two guys. 569875[/snapback] i think youre right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in Chicago Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 i think youre right 569996[/snapback] Olin Kreutz (Center) was Chicago's Rd 3 pick in the 1998 draft and has been doing very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 i think youre right 569996[/snapback] The Bears built this line (other than Olin Kreutz -- an All Pro) during the Donahoe era in Buffalo. Tait, Brown, and Miller were all free agent pickups. Metcalf was a draft pick. The defensive line was built within the last 5 years as well. Ogunleye was a free agent. The rest were drafted. The Bills had chances to take Alex Brown and Ian Scott... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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