Pet Peeve: Does this grate on anyone else?

[Sisyphean Bills]

Your basing your statements on something ice said?!

 

No, not at all. You accused my of engaging in baseless hyperbole when I talked about some posters claiming Donahoe was an infallible god-like GM. But, the truth is that some posters did make crazy, outlandish claims of that magnitude. And, they got their balls busted for it, unsurprisingly.

 

The Ketchup guy didn't like Donahoe ... but you claimed that most posters on this forum bashed TD. That Heinz guy was one of just a few that I recall.

 

Donahoe and Co. were gradually building something solid then intentionally took a step backwards in hopes of taking two steps forward. Ralph and a weakened fanbase then panicked at the first sign of adversity and tore it all up without a viable alternative in place.

 

Does this mean you are blaming the ownership and fans? That sounds rather Donahoesque!

 

First off, it wasn't Ralph or the fans that promised a competitive, nay, even playoff capable team early this season. I don't know about Ralph, but the fans didn't make the decision to go with Losman. (Indeed, I thought it was foolish and to a degree smacked of sheer arrogance.) On the other hand, the yoyoing on the QB decision was ridiculous -- leave Losman in there to learn under fire (that was the plan, no?) so at least we have some idea going into 2006. If he wasn't ready, make it Holcomb's team for a year or two.

 

The problem seemingly was that the brain trust decided to take 2 steps backwards to go forwards but then worked hard to mystify themselves and everyone else of that knowledge.

 

Yeah, that was going to happen. GM's are widely renowned for their honesty and willingness to predict future struggles.

 

I don't know, it's not like people couldn't see what was happening on the field. Being (or seeming to be) a straight-shooter comes across as sincerity. No one expects the GM to go "Mora" and start screaming "WE SUCK!" at the top of his lungs, but a GM that reveals a bit of humility, humbleness, and who seems to have a good grasp of the issues can help himself in rough times. Going all adversarial with the local media and fans is, well to call a spade a spade, a very stupid plan.

[Simon]

You had me until this one. This was not an intentional step backward.

I don't see how you could classify the decision to break in a rookie QB as anything but an intentional step backwards. As many warts as Drew had, he was still going to be a better option than some kid; while both were going to make too many rookie mistakes, at least Bledsoe was going to put up some numbers to offset them to some degree. The Bills knew this was going to be a step backwards and I think that anticipation played into their decision to not pay PhatPat (who would be 35 by the time the Bills were ready to make a run again) and to hoard their cap chits by being relatively inactive in FA.

 

Of course that's what ushered TD out of town, and for good reason. You can't treat the fans & local media with contempt.

Here's where my biggest problem is because I just don't give a hoot about the whiny fans and the self-serving local media. All I care about is what's happening on the field and if TD was blowing drafts, pushing the cap envelope with poor (re)signings, or constantly making bad hires, then I'd have no problem with his dismissal. But he was having drafts among the best in the NFL, making good decisions on who to let go and who to keep/acquire, bringing in good people like Modrak, Wyche, April, McNally, etc. But even thogh he's doing a fine job with the things that are actually important to building a good club, he still gets fired because he doesn't kowtow to a bunch of loud-mouthed, egocentric, simple-minded, jackasses?

If the Bills and their fans are more interested in PR than they are football, then that's exactly what they're going to get. A shltty ball team run by a bunch of smiling favorite uncles who don't have a clue what they're doing. I'd rather have a good team run by an arrogant dickhead who does happen to know what he's doing.

Cya

[MDH]

I'd rather have a good team run by an arrogant dickhead who does happen to know what he's doing.

Cya

571015[/snapback]

 

Not that I disagree with the basic thrust of your argument but this is where it falls apart. Under TD the Bills were not a good team. You'll always lose this argument because of this, no matter how many good players TD's drafts produced. A GM isn't here to accumulate a bunch of good/great individual players. He's here to put together a winning team.

[Simon]

Not that I disagree with the basic thrust of your argument but this is where it falls apart. Under TD the Bills were not a good team. You'll always lose this argument because of this, no matter how many good players TD's drafts produced.

They weren't?

Were they a good team last year when a rookie coach went on a late season tear and beat a bunch of playoffs teams and won a bunch of road games with Drew Bledsoe as his QB?

They were a good team that took a step back in an attempt to take two steps forward. They had steadily improved under TD's watch until this season; then when they had 1 bad year Ralph and the rest of the chickenlittle crowd peed down their legs.

[dave mcbride]

They weren't?

Were they a good team last year when a rookie coach went on a late season tear and beat a bunch of playoffs teams and won a bunch of road games with Drew Bledsoe as his QB?

They were a good team that took a step back in an attempt to take two steps forward. They had steadily improved under TD's watch until this season; then when they had 1 bad year Ralph and the rest of the chickenlittle crowd peed down their legs.

571027[/snapback]

simon, they were a bad train wreck of a team in 2003 who got blown out repeatedly after an ok start. they were a mess, there was dissension, and the team flat out quit in the last 2 games against miami and new england.

[MDH]

They weren't?

Were they a good team last year when a rookie coach went on a late season tear and beat a bunch of playoffs teams and won a bunch of road games with Drew Bledsoe as his QB?

They were a good team that took a step back in an attempt to take two steps forward. They had steadily improved under TD's watch until this season; then when they had 1 bad year Ralph and the rest of the chickenlittle crowd peed down their legs.

571027[/snapback]

 

I'm not exactly sure how you equate being the only team in the AFC to not make the playoffs (not counting the most recent expansion team) in the 5 years TD has been here to "winning team". Sure that’s a catchy little fact that people like throwing around to discredit TD…but it’s still true.

 

Another flaw in your argument is the way the Bills lost this year. Had the team taken a step back because of our young QB I don't think many people would have complained. Had the D looked good but the O struggled I think TD's job would have been safe. The problem here is that after 5 years both the O and the D are in shambles. This is not "steadily improving", it's falling off a cliff and smashing to pieces at the bottom.

 

All that being said (as I’ve said before) I wasn’t in favor of firing TD just to fire the guy. I was in favor of getting rid of him only if we could bring in somebody who was competent. IMO, Levy doesn’t fit the bill and I would have rather have TD. However, favoring TD over Marv doesn’t mean that TD did a bang up job while he was here.

[Dawgg]

I strongly disagree with the statement that they were a good team last season.

Teams they beat:

 

Miami (twice)

NY Jets

Arizona

San Francisco

Cleveland

Cincinatti

St. Louis

 

 

Only three of those teams made the playoffs (Jets, Seattle and St. Louis) and the record of the opponents they beat was 42-72 with a whopping .368 winning percentage. While the win streak was certainly impressive, this team was the fortunate beneficiary of a powder puff schedule -- a benefit that they did not have this year and it showed.

 

 

They weren't?

Were they a good team last year when a rookie coach went on a late season tear and beat a bunch of playoffs teams and won a bunch of road games with Drew Bledsoe as his QB?

They were a good team that took a step back....

571027[/snapback]

[Dawgg]

 

You would?

 

IMO, Levy doesn’t fit the bill and I would have rather have TD...

571042[/snapback]

[Sisyphean Bills]

I'm not exactly sure how you equate being the only team in the AFC to not make the playoffs (not counting the most recent expansion team) in the 5 years TD has been here to "winning team".  Sure that’s a catchy little fact that people like throwing around to discredit TD…but it’s still true.

 

Another flaw in your argument is the way the Bills lost this year.  Had the team taken a step back because of our young QB I don't think many people would have complained.  Had the D looked good but the O struggled I think TD's job would have been safe.  The problem here is that after 5 years both the O and the D are in shambles.  This is not "steadily improving", it's falling off a cliff and smashing to pieces at the bottom.

 

All that being said (as I’ve said before) I wasn’t in favor of firing TD just to fire the guy.  I was in favor of getting rid of him only if we could bring in somebody who was competent.  IMO, Levy doesn’t fit the bill and I would have rather have TD.  However, favoring TD over Marv doesn’t mean that TD did a bang up job while he was here.

571042[/snapback]

 

Quite. I don't see how the phrases "steady progress" or "winning team" apply to the situation either. It sounds good, it casts a nice glow over the mess, but it's not supported by the evidence.

 

I don't think getting rid of Pat Williams and not signing better free agents is really part of a winning formula either. "Steady progress" would mean that the front office takes every possible avenue to improve the team as they become available. (Pinching pennies under the cap is not the same thing.) What good is it to "bank cap chits" in the long run? When do you decide to flip the switch and go from being a laughingstock to a champion? Nevermind the unreality of it all; assuming the decision is finally made to spend these "chits," it's unlikely that all the right parts to the puzzle will be readily available anyway and even if they are available and signed, who says all those parts will just click together and form a cohesive team instantly? It's simply too far out and fantastic.

 

TD did some good things, no doubt. But, TD made a lot of mistakes here too. He's said as much himself. I don't really have that sense of certainty that TD was going to get it done in Buffalo. If the Bills had to part company with TD then now probably wasn't a bad time to do so. Still, I am not overly impressed with the way this house cleaning has gone down either. It has seemed like a sequence of knee jerk reactions by everyone involved. It's not over yet and maybe it will get better, who knows? We'll just have to wait and see.

[MDH]

 

You would?

571063[/snapback]

 

Given the choice between the two, sadly the answer is yes, I'd rather have TD.

[GG]

I don't see how you could classify the decision to break in a rookie QB as anything but an intentional step backwards. As many warts as Drew had, he was still going to be a better option than some kid; while both were going to make too many rookie mistakes, at least Bledsoe was going to put up some numbers to offset them to some degree. The Bills knew this was going to be a step backwards and I think that anticipation played into their decision to not pay PhatPat (who would be 35 by the time the Bills were ready to make a run again) and to hoard their cap chits by being relatively inactive in FA.

 

I don't, nor did I back in February. But, that's not what TD & co told the fans nor the players. What's worse, they handed the job to Losman without real competition, even though Holcomb was the better player.

 

Yeah, in hindsight it's ano brainer that Bills were going to be worse. Then, if the Bills knew the season was lost, why did the Bills run their regular offensive set early on and not utilize max protect for Losman, at the expense of trying to win? Why insert Holcomb in after 4 starts?

 

 

Here's where my biggest problem is because I just don't give a hoot about the whiny fans and the self-serving local media. All I care about is what's happening on the field and if TD was blowing drafts, pushing the cap envelope with poor (re)signings, or constantly making bad hires, then I'd have no problem with his dismissal. But he was having drafts among the best in the NFL, making good decisions on who to let go and who to keep/acquire, bringing in good people like Modrak, Wyche, April, McNally, etc. But even thogh he's doing a fine job with the things that are actually important to building a good club, he still gets fired because he doesn't kowtow to a bunch of loud-mouthed, egocentric, simple-minded, jackasses?

If the Bills and their fans are more interested in PR than they are football, then that's exactly what they're going to get. A shltty ball team run by a bunch of smiling favorite uncles who don't have a clue what they're doing. I'd rather have a good team run by an arrogant dickhead who does happen to know what he's doing.

Cya

571015[/snapback]

 

There's always going to be the lunatic fringe that isn't happy with what's going on. But, as a GM in an entertainment business, you have to recognize that the only thing that pi$$ing off your fans is going to do is guarantee empty seats in the future.

 

I still consider Bills' fans to be among the more knowledgable of the game, and while TD is resorting to changing the nature of his firing, he is the one that was blowing the most smoke that Bills will take a step forward this year. He didn't mince his words that 2001 was a rebuilding year, and no one got on his case after a 3-13 season.

 

What was reasonable was to expect steady progress over 5 years. What we have is the exact opposite, Bills are back to rebuilding after 5, without a playoff appearance. If we are to expect patience, where was TD's patience with Greggo?

 

Again, I may have been more tolerant in the rebuilding of the rebuild, if there was a nucleus on which to build. But, as you agree that the draft forms the core of the team, what's so special about his drafts in Buffalo. Other than a very solid 2001, his 4 drafts have been marginal, and 2002 can be almost labeled a disaster. He's put himself behind the 8-ball with the QB chase by trading away top picks, and unfortunately has not been able to back fill the talent with late round selections.

 

I don't think that many people were overly concerned that a humorlessly arrogant dickhead was running their favorite franchise. But after 5 years of futility, the condenscention wore as thin as TD's skin.

 

We can just as easily be 5-11 with Marv, but at least enjoy the scenery.

[BillsWatch]

Here's where my biggest problem is because I just don't give a hoot about the whiny fans and the self-serving local media. All I care about is what's happening on the field and if TD was blowing drafts, pushing the cap envelope with poor (re)signings, or constantly making bad hires, then I'd have no problem with his dismissal. But he was having drafts among the best in the NFL, making good decisions on who to let go and who to keep/acquire, bringing in good people like Modrak, Wyche, April, McNally, etc. But even thogh he's doing a fine job with the things that are actually important to building a good club, he still gets fired because he doesn't kowtow to a bunch of loud-mouthed, egocentric, simple-minded, jackasses?

If the Bills and their fans are more interested in PR than they are football, then that's exactly what they're going to get. A shltty ball team run by a bunch of smiling favorite uncles who don't have a clue what they're doing. I'd rather have a good team run by an arrogant dickhead who does happen to know what he's doing.

Cya

571015[/snapback]

 

You seem to be too smart to be a Bills fan. I have been making this argument since Donahoe got here and Marv Levy was saying it before me. If they a 'good GM' and a 'bad GM' hire 2 - just be smart enough not to break cover.

[Bill from NYC]

I don't see how you could classify the decision to break in a rookie QB as anything but an intentional step backwards. As many warts as Drew had, he was still going to be a better option than some kid; while both were going to make too many rookie mistakes, at least Bledsoe was going to put up some numbers to offset them to some degree. The Bills knew this was going to be a step backwards and I think that anticipation played into their decision to not pay PhatPat (who would be 35 by the time the Bills were ready to make a run again) and to hoard their cap chits by being relatively inactive in FA.

Here's where my biggest problem is because I just don't give a hoot about the whiny fans and the self-serving local media. All I care about is what's happening on the field and if TD was blowing drafts, pushing the cap envelope with poor (re)signings, or constantly making bad hires, then I'd have no problem with his dismissal. But he was having drafts among the best in the NFL, making good decisions on who to let go and who to keep/acquire, bringing in good people like Modrak, Wyche, April, McNally, etc. But even thogh he's doing a fine job with the things that are actually important to building a good club, he still gets fired because he doesn't kowtow to a bunch of loud-mouthed, egocentric, simple-minded, jackasses?

If the Bills and their fans are more interested in PR than they are football, then that's exactly what they're going to get. A shltty ball team run by a bunch of smiling favorite uncles who don't have a clue what they're doing. I'd rather have a good team run by an arrogant dickhead who does happen to know what he's doing.

Cya

571015[/snapback]

 

Simon, he was fired for a reason. Look, I think that bringing in Levy was a bad move. That said, TD had to go. Mike Williams has hamstrung this team. Giving up the store for JP and handing him the job was simply stupid. Roscoe (Little Richard) Parrish was the icing on the cake.

 

Bro, look at his Steeler drafts (that you have linked and are well aware of). Look at the type of players he took and the positions they play. He did a fine job in Pitt.

 

Here, his philosophy changed. He reached for projects and little people and created a weak football team.

Why can't you see this?