seq004 Posted January 14, 2006 Posted January 14, 2006 All season long everyone wanted TD & MM out of town ASAP and now that they are gone everyone decides that this team is a joke, no free agents coming, an old man for a GM and we have all of a sudden become the laughing stock of the NFL. We don't even have a head coach yet but I'm sure he'll be the wrong guy right? This is what you wanted and so that's what we got. I'm going to give it some time and trust in Marv that they'll get the mess that TD & MM left behind fixed because that's what they left behind a house built without a frame. A team that looked good on the outside but when you opened the door you saw what a real mess it was. A team built on trust that TD and MM knew what they were doing. That's what Ralph was given blind loyalty. I can think of no other man that cares about the team the town and the fans like Marv Levy. Let's give them a chance.
Mark VI Posted January 14, 2006 Posted January 14, 2006 Let...There...Be...Peace...On Earth.. And let it begin with me ! ( Sobbing... singing loudly..)
Grant Posted January 14, 2006 Posted January 14, 2006 I'd like to clarify that we wanted TD and MM out, but on OUR terms. Mularkey resigning is not something that sends a positive message because it means that a second-year head coach decided an organization wasn't good enough for him. That doesn't reflect well on the Bills
buffaloboyinATL Posted January 14, 2006 Posted January 14, 2006 I'd like to clarify that we wanted TD and MM out, but on OUR terms. Mularkey resigning is not something that sends a positive message because it means that a second-year head coach decided an organization wasn't good enough for him. That doesn't reflect well on the Bills 566228[/snapback] The only message being sent is that Ralph didn't want to pay the final 3 years of his contract so he made him so uncomfortable that he would quit. Doesn't look good but it also doesn't surprise me at all.
Grant Posted January 14, 2006 Posted January 14, 2006 The only message being sent is that Ralph didn't want to pay the final 3 years of his contract so he made him so uncomfortable that he would quit. Doesn't look good but it also doesn't surprise me at all. 566237[/snapback] Well, you're almost there. If Ralph is making it clear he'd rather manipulate a coach into resigning rather than honoring a written contract, why would any player or coach want to come into an environment that clearly not interested in having any class at all? It drives me nuts that fans on these boards are willing to excuse the behavior from this organization just because we're fans. Like Ralph Wilson is our alcoholic parent and we just keep making excuses for him, trying to convince ourselves that "they" know best. People get angry when a player demands more money or a trade when they don't like their original contract. Why is no one getting upset that Wilson won't honor a deal he made two years ago? You signed Mularkey for 5 years. If you want him here that long, you've got him. If you don't, then be a man, fire him and pay him. But manipulating someone into quitting because you're trying to save a few thousand? Fuggin' ridiculous! It makes me beyond embarassed to associate with this franchise. At least when the Bills didn't make the playoffs a few years ago, we could still say the franchise had class. Well, you can't say that with a straight face anymore.
seq004 Posted January 14, 2006 Author Posted January 14, 2006 I'd like to clarify that we wanted TD and MM out, but on OUR terms. Mularkey resigning is not something that sends a positive message because it means that a second-year head coach decided an organization wasn't good enough for him. That doesn't reflect well on the Bills 566228[/snapback] I don't think it means that at all. To me MM was fired. They tell him to fire all his coaches, bring in a HOF coach that will be looking over his shoulders so he'll be on pins and needles. It's a force out for two reasons, which are Ralph not having to pay him his contract and get a new coach so they can get assistant coaches.
Grant Posted January 14, 2006 Posted January 14, 2006 I don't think it means that at all. To me MM was fired. They tell him to fire all his coaches, bring in a HOF coach that will be looking over his shoulders so he'll be on pins and needles. It's a force out for two reasons, which are Ralph not having to pay him his contract and get a new coach so they can get assistant coaches. 566246[/snapback] Why not just fire him then? It's shameful that Wilson would not honor the fuggin' deal he agreed to. If I were a coach in the NFL, I would look at this situation in Buffalo (coupled with the Wade Philips debacle a few years back) and avoid it like the plague. Why take a job where you'll have no power, be held accountable for what happens anyway, and then not even be guaranteed that your contract will be honored?
IndyMark Posted January 14, 2006 Posted January 14, 2006 If I were a coach in the NFL, I would look at this situation in Buffalo (coupled with the Wade Philips debacle a few years back) and avoid it like the plague. Why take a job where you'll have no power, be held accountable for what happens anyway, and then not even be guaranteed that your contract will be honored? 566248[/snapback] And if I were a coach in the NFL I would look at the Buffalo situation as very promising. So what is your point? You wanted the removal of TD and MM on YOUR terms? With all due respect who are you? This board and the comments of people regarding RW, ML and the 'handling' of MM clearly cement the fact that Buffalo fans are fickle and weak, by and large. A few years back someone stated that 50% of the Bills fans will B word once we win the superbowl because we didn't win it 'their' way. At one point I thought that was laughable. Now, not so much.
Buffal0 Bill5 Posted January 14, 2006 Posted January 14, 2006 But manipulating someone into quitting because you're trying to save a few thousand? 566245[/snapback] It happens in business all of the time, from the littlest jobs to the biggest. I'm glad Ralph isn't going to have to pay this guy. By the way, were talking in the millions, not thousands.
Grant Posted January 14, 2006 Posted January 14, 2006 And if I were a coach in the NFL I would look at the Buffalo situation as very promising. So what is your point? I read this a few times hoping for a trace of irony. I concluded there is none. What about the Buffalo situation is promising? An owner who's publicly stating he'll return to meddling? A general manager with no experience and has been out of the game for 10 years? Two coaches in the past 6 years who's contracts haven't been honored (well, one was, but it took legal action to do it)? How is that promising?! You wanted the removal of TD and MM on YOUR terms? With all due respect who are you? This was such an innocent, ignorant thing to say, it kind of made me chuckle. I don't mean to be condescending, but the way it was worded just seemed very... child-like, I don't know. In any case, I obviously didn't mean "OUR terms" as in we, specifically. I meant that we fans wanted TD and Mularkey out, but we wanted them FIRED. That is, we wanted the organization ("us") to reject them - not the other way around. This board and the comments of people regarding RW, ML and the 'handling' of MM clearly cement the fact that Buffalo fans are fickle and weak, by and large. A few years back someone stated that 50% of the Bills fans will B word once we win the superbowl because we didn't win it 'their' way. At one point I thought that was laughable. Now, not so much. 566256[/snapback] You're right. Why should anyone be unhappy? Things are fine! It's our duty as fans to just accept being taken advantage of, right? Willfull ignorance rules supreme.
Grant Posted January 14, 2006 Posted January 14, 2006 It happens in business all of the time, from the littlest jobs to the biggest. Because that somehow justifies it? I'm glad Ralph isn't going to have to pay this guy. Why? It's not coming out of your pocket. By the way, were talking in the millions, not thousands. 566265[/snapback] Even if it is, the Bills are a multi-million dollar franchise. They can afford it. Paying Mularkey isn't going to break anyone. If he didn't intend on honoring his contract if Mularkey didn't work out, he shouldn't have allowed a 5 year deal.
IndyMark Posted January 14, 2006 Posted January 14, 2006 I read this a few times hoping for a trace of irony. I concluded there is none. hat about the Buffalo situation is promising? An owner who's publicly stating he'll return to meddling? A general manager with no experience and has been out of the game for 10 years? Two coaches in the past 6 years who's contracts haven't been honored (well, one was, but it took legal action to do it)? How is that promising?! This was such an innocent, ignorant thing to say, it kind of made me chuckle. I don't mean to be condescending, but the way it was worded just seemed very... child-like, I don't know. In any case, I obviously didn't mean "OUR terms" as in we, specifically. I meant that we fans wanted TD and Mularkey out, but we wanted them FIRED. That is, we wanted the organization ("us") to reject them - not the other way around. This board and the comments of people regarding RW, ML and the 'handling' of MM clearly cement the fact that Buffalo fans are fickle and weak, by and large. You're right. Why should anyone be unhappy? Things are fine! It's our duty as fans to just accept being taken advantage of, right? Willfull ignorance rules supreme. 566267[/snapback] So you are saying that an NFL HEAD COACHING job is unattractive? Really? That is an interesting perspective. Oh, that is right I cannot match wits with someone as clever as you. By the way, nothing but immaturity and worry was 'obvious' in your post. You appear to 'melt' with pressure and get super nervous if things do not go your way. There is medicine or therapy for that....or you just can wait and grow up. Either way, in about 1 or 2 months your words will ring hollow.
seq004 Posted January 14, 2006 Author Posted January 14, 2006 Why not just fire him then? It's shameful that Wilson would not honor the fuggin' deal he agreed to. If I were a coach in the NFL, I would look at this situation in Buffalo (coupled with the Wade Philips debacle a few years back) and avoid it like the plague. Why take a job where you'll have no power, be held accountable for what happens anyway, and then not even be guaranteed that your contract will be honored? 566248[/snapback] Come on, Wilson did honer the contract Mularkey quit. The bottom line is if you go 5-11 in any city bad things will happen. It's a nasty business and their are a hole lot of other owners who are worse than Ralph. You know the last time Ralph gave total power to someone he destroyed the team in 5 years.
Grant Posted January 14, 2006 Posted January 14, 2006 So you are saying that an NFL HEAD COACHING job is unattractive? Really? That is an interesting perspective. Oh, that is right I cannot match wits with someone as clever as you. Apparently not, as you refuted nothing I said. You merely resorted to personal attacks. Your best retort was that an NFL head coaching position is attractive no matter what the negatives attached, but with as many openings as there are, I doubt Buffalo is number one on many lists. By the way, nothing but immaturity and worry was 'obvious' in your post. You appear to 'melt' with pressure and get super nervous if things do not go your way. There is medicine or therapy for that....or you just can wait and grow up. 566272[/snapback] Was this a self-examiniation? Because I would argue that immaturity/insecurity is most readily apparent in shallow personal attacks backed up by no argument what-so-ever.
Grant Posted January 14, 2006 Posted January 14, 2006 The bottom line is if you go 5-11 in any city bad things will happen. It's a nasty business and their are a hole lot of other owners who are worse than Ralph. You know the last time Ralph gave total power to someone he destroyed the team in 5 years. 566275[/snapback] I agree that Mularkey deserved to be fired, but that's just it - he should have been FIRED. Not manipulated into quitting.
finknottle Posted January 14, 2006 Posted January 14, 2006 I'd like to clarify that we wanted TD and MM out, but on OUR terms. Mularkey resigning is not something that sends a positive message because it means that a second-year head coach decided an organization wasn't good enough for him. That doesn't reflect well on the Bills 566228[/snapback] I've never shied away from bashing the organization, but this I think is great for the Bills. Look at it from the national media's perspective. Why would they view the Bills as in disarray as opposed to the TD regime? Who in the organization is a problem today that wasn't here one month ago, when presumably MM was a happy camper? Levy in place of TD, and an owner that cans a GM after 5 years with a dismal record and takes back some control. Gee, that's unheard of in the NFL! Seriously, I do not believe this sends the troubling message that people here are worrying about. Whatever thoughts and concerns people have about the Bills organization will be forgotten as soon as there is a management team and coaching staff in place. And with the lame-duck taint gone, this is suddenly a much more attractive opening for assistants. For better or for worse, however, MM will be marked as a quitter if and when he gets another shot. Those questions will linger about him far longer than it will the Bills.
Tasker Posted January 14, 2006 Posted January 14, 2006 Guys, anybody who things this is not a great thing is off base. Not as great as it would have been to fire him Tuesday morning after the Miami loss, or the day after the season, or maybe even when he first moved to Holcomb, but still pretty great. We are talking about a guy who might be a decent coach in his second or third try if he gets a chance, but wasn't going to work out in Buffalo. His play calling was rediculous consistently, and as a former offensive coordinator this should have been his strength. He didn't have a clue how to handle young players (JPL and Willis) or veterans (Adams and Moulds), and was terrible in dealing with the media. I assume we will end up with Haslett, which I think will be an improvement, but there are other options that could be even better, but most importantly we closed the cycle of TD/MM, and can start fresh. As I've said in other discussions I would have loved to get Herm Edwards (even at that price and draft picks), and we can talk about the people we missed two years ago when MM was originally hired, but with Haslett and all the other options, I would rather have the best option Marv will be able to come up with as opposed to a lame duck MM. I was one of the people repeatedly calling for the heads of TD and MM (only the firings guys...you don't have to fear for your safety or rush your families out of Buffalo), and I am as happy as can be that they are both gone. I think that a fresh start is of value in itself, but I also think that whoever Marv brings in will be chosen in a way that he will work well and be molded by Marv. We have seen the darkest in Buffalo. Still have to find out if JPL is our future (I'm hoping 16 starts this year will give us a good hint), still have to get both lines in order, and still build a quality coaching staff around our new head coach. But I like Marv and Marv's hand picked coach a lot better than TD/MM.
kasper13 Posted January 14, 2006 Posted January 14, 2006 The next 5 months around here will go pretty much like this..... Marv must go. The new head coach stinks. The new OC is a joke. The new DC is a bum. All the new assistants are no good. The draft was a giant bust. Why didn't we get TO. Why did we not sign all the big name free agents. The free agents the Bills did sign are all no good. The O-Line is no good. The QB is no good. Why did we get rid of Mike Williams? Why did we get rid of Eric Moulds? The Bills looked great in mini-camp, I can't wait for the season to start. That takes us to June.
jarthur31 Posted January 14, 2006 Posted January 14, 2006 All season long everyone wanted TD & MM out of town ASAP and now that they are gone everyone decides that this team is a joke, no free agents coming, an old man for a GM and we have all of a sudden become the laughing stock of the NFL. We don't even have a head coach yet but I'm sure he'll be the wrong guy right? This is what you wanted and so that's what we got. I'm going to give it some time and trust in Marv that they'll get the mess that TD & MM left behind fixed because that's what they left behind a house built without a frame. A team that looked good on the outside but when you opened the door you saw what a real mess it was. A team built on trust that TD and MM knew what they were doing. That's what Ralph was given blind loyalty. I can think of no other man that cares about the team the town and the fans like Marv Levy. Let's give them a chance. 566211[/snapback] I wanted TD gone solely because he refused to upgrade the O-line. MM quit like a coward. May he never have a HC job in the NFL. I suspect that he felt like Levy would be looking over his shoulder now. Marv is a legend in Buffalo and deservedly so.
jarthur31 Posted January 14, 2006 Posted January 14, 2006 Well, you're almost there. If Ralph is making it clear he'd rather manipulate a coach into resigning rather than honoring a written contract, why would any player or coach want to come into an environment that clearly not interested in having any class at all? It drives me nuts that fans on these boards are willing to excuse the behavior from this organization just because we're fans. Like Ralph Wilson is our alcoholic parent and we just keep making excuses for him, trying to convince ourselves that "they" know best. People get angry when a player demands more money or a trade when they don't like their original contract. Why is no one getting upset that Wilson won't honor a deal he made two years ago? You signed Mularkey for 5 years. If you want him here that long, you've got him. If you don't, then be a man, fire him and pay him. But manipulating someone into quitting because you're trying to save a few thousand? Fuggin' ridiculous! It makes me beyond embarassed to associate with this franchise. At least when the Bills didn't make the playoffs a few years ago, we could still say the franchise had class. Well, you can't say that with a straight face anymore. 566245[/snapback] Simply because that doesn't make sense to most people. If you get fired, you don't get money well after you're gone.
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