obie_wan Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 My concern, Mark, is that Losman was praised for his offseason preparations. He worked out, and studied film, and worked out, and studied film, and made a massive emotional and physical effort to be ready for his opportunity. With a crappy Oline, he failed and was pulled WAY too prematurely. I guess my question is: what's his incentive for busting his ass AGAIN this whole offseason, only to have to now compete for a job against a guy who already took the job away from him? And to come back to a coach who didn't think twice about pulling him? There is no confidence there on behalf of the coaches, and consequently no confidence on behalf of JP that if he DOES step up, he won't be benched in a NY minute. !@#$ed up situation. 563100[/snapback] hard to see how you keep MM and JP. With Marv having an aversion to young players, looks like JP is done before he started in Buffalo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obie_wan Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 I didn't say that i wanted Aaron Brooks in camp next year, i said a veteran like Aaron Brooks. But AB has 120 pass TD's and 13 rushing TD's in his career, but he does have 84 int's. on the other hand KH has 37 pass TD's and 1 rush TD with 37 INT's. so YES i want another veteran QB in camp, but it doesn't have to be AB. 563193[/snapback] Brooks would be a big step up from what the Bills have at QB right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDG Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 TD cuts Bledsoe because he can see we can only go so far with him with his multiple shortcomings. In the meantime, he's ignored upgrading the Offensive Line with real Quality and depth for about 3 years. False. TD did not, quote, "ignore upgrading the OL." Its just plain not true. He used our highest draft pick in decades on an OL, used several mid and late-round picks on the OLine, and brought in several UFA's and street free agents. He did not succeed in upgrading the line, but he did not ignore it. So Losman, who hasn't earned anything, is immediately given the starting nod without any competition. The Line still can't block, the playcalling is the worst in memory and Montana in his prime wouldn't win 6 games on this team. The Vets, who actually think they are a 9-10 win team, do not like the fact JP hasn't earned his job ( not his decision ) and react once Losman struggles out of the gate. I think it is a huge mythology of fans that teams have "QB Competitions" in training camp. Mularkey and Donahoe made their decision based on several weeks of in-season practice, and limited game performance of Losman, and continued to re-evaluate the team constantly (which is why Losman was benched.) They made the decision to try and develop Losman this year, and there is no reason why the Jeff Blake's of the world should have had the chance to start the opening game over Losman once that decision was made. The point was to develop Losman, not to start the best QB *today* (which was Holcomb, BTW.) Moreover, "struggle" hardly begins to describe it. Losman was playing at a level that was barely NFL-caliber, and you could make the case that he was the worst starting QB in the League last season. Mularkey wilts like a 2 day rose and puts noodle arm career backup in to save his job...er....win a couple games. False. After the stinker JP Losman put up in Tampa, followed by another stinker at home against Atlanta, he trotted him back out again for the Saints game. Only after Losman put up yet another stinker against the woeful Saints was Mularkey *forced* to pull the worst QB in the League (at that point of the season.) A wilting rose would have pulled the plug in training camp - or after the Tampa game, or *at least* after the Atlanta game. We beat Miami and the Jets at home to fool everyone into thinking we have something. Then Holcomb play like crap against KC at home and gets knocked out with 0 points on the scoreboard. Losman comes in and throws 2 TD's to win the game. False. Kelly Holcomb was 4 of 6 when he was injured, with both incompletions resulting from intense pressure up front. He also had one drive killed by the infamous "fake sneak" play. From that point on, no matter what any Vet had to say, this should have been his team and Holcomb should never have played again, unless Losman was injured..and I mean actually injured.. We had NOTHING to lose, except more games... which we did anyhow. False. The Bills were very much alive to steal the division from the Patriots with divisional games against Miami (which we lost after Losman went in the tank with sub-50% completion percentage in the second half) and a home date with the Patriots (in which Losman got killed.) Losman could be ANYTHING right now, boom or bust.. but we'll NEVER know if we don't give him a fair shake. Maybe Losman is Rich Gannon - though we may never get enough chance to find that out. On the other hand, maybe he's Akili Smith. Everyone wants to stick with Losman because he's a 1st Rounder, but sometimes 1st Rounders are Busts. And if you don't detect the bust quickly enough, you end up investing 5 years in Joey Harrington and going nowhere. You started your post by complaining that Losman was handed the starting job without competition - now you want the Bills do exactly that.... griping about every start that Holcomb had instead of Losman because of Holcomb's superior performance. You don't seem to think much of Kelly Holcomb (who's actually taken a team to the playoffs - something the Bills apparently don't know much about lately) - if Losman can't beat out Kelly Holcomb on *performance*, should the Bills really be starting him? When he went back in against KC, he looked like a much better QB with his accuracy, poise and reads. For as good as he looked against what was hardly one of the NFL's elite defenses, he still only completed 56% of his passes - which is o.k., but not good/great by any means. Let him have a competion with Holcomb going into the summer. That should be over in 2 weeks, if not 2 days, with JP the clear winner. Were you watching Browns games all season? Holcomb was twice as good as Losman this year, so I have no idea what you base that on. JDG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 We "mishandled" him by giving him the friggen job without a competition given that he was far from ready from being a starter. If the guy cannot take the competition, he should not be in the NFL. We have "mishandled" every QB in the past several years by not giving any of them an adequate o-line. I really hope that Losman turns out to be the QB TD and MM thought he would be, but I have my doubts. I really would like to see what he could do behind a capable line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMIEBUF12 Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 Lets Recap: TD cuts Bledsoe because he can see we can only go so far with him with his multiple shortcomings. In the meantime, he's ignored upgrading the Offensive Line with real Quality and depth for about 3 years. So Losman, who hasn't earned anything, is immediately given the starting nod without any competition. The Line still can't block, the playcalling is the worst in memory and Montana in his prime wouldn't win 6 games on this team. The Vets, who actually think they are a 9-10 win team, do not like the fact JP hasn't earned his job ( not his decision ) and react once Losman struggles out of the gate. Mularkey wilts like a 2 day rose and puts noodle arm career backup in to save his job...er....win a couple games. We beat Miami and the Jets at home to fool everyone into thinking we have something. Then Holcomb play like crap against KC at home and gets knocked out with 0 points on the scoreboard. Losman comes in and throws 2 TD's to win the game. From that point on, no matter what any Vet had to say, this should have been his team and Holcomb should never have played again, unless Losman was injured..and I mean actually injured.. We had NOTHING to lose, except more games... which we did anyhow. The worst handling of a young NFL QB in recent memory. So now we have the hot pockets calling for Leinart,Vince Young,Rivers,Neil Young...anyone they've ever heard of on ESPN or MTV. Losman could be ANYTHING right now, boom or bust.. but we'll NEVER know if we don't give him a fair shake. When he went back in against KC, he looked like a much better QB with his accuracy, poise and reads. Let him have a competion with Holcomb going into the summer. That should be over in 2 weeks, if not 2 days, with JP the clear winner. Meanwhile, we have real, not imagined, issues with other units on our team. The OL, DL and hiring the right OC,DC come to mind. A vet WR to possibly replace Moulds, an actual NFL TE, IDing a CB to possibly replace Clements are other concerns on a long list. QB isn't an issue because we need to see what we actaully have in JP behind a credible OL with some good playcalling. Throwing him under the bus at this juncture is pure lunacy. If he bombs, we can make a move next year. We will actually KNOW something then about his ability to be our starting QB without constantly being yanked by a coach with no backbone. I think Marv can help Mularkey figure that one out. Ok, I'm done here. Onto the next imagined crisis... 562953[/snapback] cannot even really comment on this ,you hit the nail on the head Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark VI Posted January 12, 2006 Author Share Posted January 12, 2006 Were you watching Browns games all season? Holcomb was twice as good as Losman this year, so I have no idea what you base that on. JDG 563230[/snapback] Yes, I was watching Browns game all season. The approx. 310 Bills games I have attended in person were strickly to eat popcorn and stare at the cheerleaders. I had zero issue with the Mike Williams pick, which tanked, but the rest of the line wasn't playing well for years. Teague was a failure at Tackle and just was overpowered most every game I saw him at Center. That should have been addressed 2 years ago. Chris V looked shot last season. Bennie Anderson can't play. I agree last season was slim pickings for Free Agent OL in 2005 but don't tell me a bunch of 2nd day picks like lowly rated Ben Sobieski was TD trying to upgrade the line on draft day. Try picking more on day 1, instead of a 168 lb. WR and a raw TE from Miami. Not impressed. Holcomb came to us as a 32 year old journeyman with 12 lifetime starts. He was signed as a backup and I completely understood the Losman benching for the Jets and Miami at home. From the KC game on, I didn't buy any of the rhetoric coming form OBD justifying the benching of Losman. I expect struggles but 5-11 proved what I could see. In the playoff race ? Our Defense finished #29 ! The Defense was doing very little to keep the opposition from scoring, so keeping Holcomb in there accomplished nothing. I love how you left that out of the Miami road game, when Losman had 3 quick scores and our D played horribly. You're right. That was Losman. The playcalling on both sides of the ball was stellar Maybe Losman is Rich Gannon ? WTF does that mean ? He didn't have his first good year until he was 33-34. Losman is what, 25 ? You are ALL over the place in this discussion. Go Browns ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 False. TD did not, quote, "ignore upgrading the OL." Its just plain not true. He used our highest draft pick in decades on an OL, used several mid and late-round picks on the OLine, and brought in several UFA's and street free agents. He did not succeed in upgrading the line, but he did not ignore it.I think it is a huge mythology of fans that teams have "QB Competitions" in training camp. Mularkey and Donahoe made their decision based on several weeks of in-season practice, and limited game performance of Losman, and continued to re-evaluate the team constantly (which is why Losman was benched.) They made the decision to try and develop Losman this year, and there is no reason why the Jeff Blake's of the world should have had the chance to start the opening game over Losman once that decision was made. The point was to develop Losman, not to start the best QB *today* (which was Holcomb, BTW.) Moreover, "struggle" hardly begins to describe it. Losman was playing at a level that was barely NFL-caliber, and you could make the case that he was the worst starting QB in the League last season. False. After the stinker JP Losman put up in Tampa, followed by another stinker at home against Atlanta, he trotted him back out again for the Saints game. Only after Losman put up yet another stinker against the woeful Saints was Mularkey *forced* to pull the worst QB in the League (at that point of the season.) A wilting rose would have pulled the plug in training camp - or after the Tampa game, or *at least* after the Atlanta game. False. Kelly Holcomb was 4 of 6 when he was injured, with both incompletions resulting from intense pressure up front. He also had one drive killed by the infamous "fake sneak" play. False. The Bills were very much alive to steal the division from the Patriots with divisional games against Miami (which we lost after Losman went in the tank with sub-50% completion percentage in the second half) and a home date with the Patriots (in which Losman got killed.) Maybe Losman is Rich Gannon - though we may never get enough chance to find that out. On the other hand, maybe he's Akili Smith. Everyone wants to stick with Losman because he's a 1st Rounder, but sometimes 1st Rounders are Busts. And if you don't detect the bust quickly enough, you end up investing 5 years in Joey Harrington and going nowhere. You started your post by complaining that Losman was handed the starting job without competition - now you want the Bills do exactly that.... griping about every start that Holcomb had instead of Losman because of Holcomb's superior performance. You don't seem to think much of Kelly Holcomb (who's actually taken a team to the playoffs - something the Bills apparently don't know much about lately) - if Losman can't beat out Kelly Holcomb on *performance*, should the Bills really be starting him? For as good as he looked against what was hardly one of the NFL's elite defenses, he still only completed 56% of his passes - which is o.k., but not good/great by any means. Were you watching Browns games all season? Holcomb was twice as good as Losman this year, so I have no idea what you base that on. JDG 563230[/snapback] There is no way that Holcomb was TWICE as good as Losman this year (dont show me ridiculous padded stats) absolutely no way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDG Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 There is no way that Holcomb was TWICE as good as Losman this year (dont show me ridiculous padded stats) absolutely no way. 563349[/snapback] You're right, it might have been three times. JDG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obie_wan Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 hard to see how you keep MM and JP. With Marv having an aversion to young players, looks like JP is done before he started in Buffalo. 563222[/snapback] looks like Mullarkey saw the light and will sacrifice himself for the future of JP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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