BuckeyeBill Posted January 12, 2006 Posted January 12, 2006 Quote from our new man in charge, Marv Levy. "The one thing I would interject into the personnel department that I would push very hard is picking players with high character... Ability without character will lose. The Buffalo Bills are going to be a team of high character, that's something I will push for very hard." When I think of a person with exceptional skill, potential, but low on the character front... Willis McGahee jumps to my mind. Now don't get me wrong... I LOVE McGAHEE. He's one of my favorite Buffalo Bills. Yet I hear things from him saying that HE is the best running back in the NFL, that HE should get more carries, that HE might hold out because of HIS wonderful agent named Rosenhaus. This is not high character in my mind, and even though he may be a top 5 talent at the runningback position in the league, might we have a new runningback in 2-3 years? What do you think? Are there other players that you believe to be marked as well?
CoachChuckDickerson Posted January 12, 2006 Posted January 12, 2006 His lack of hands and breakaway speed add to this. I agree he could easily be gone in a couple years.
ajzepp Posted January 12, 2006 Posted January 12, 2006 The only problem with Levy's theory is that it means we end up with guys like Mark Kelso in the secondary......
Talonz Posted January 12, 2006 Posted January 12, 2006 Quote from our new man in charge, Marv Levy. "The one thing I would interject into the personnel department that I would push very hard is picking players with high character... Ability without character will lose. The Buffalo Bills are going to be a team of high character, that's something I will push for very hard." When I think of a person with exceptional skill, potential, but low on the character front... Willis McGahee jumps to my mind. Now don't get me wrong... I LOVE McGAHEE. He's one of my favorite Buffalo ? 562809[/snapback] Not to sound like a tool, but I don't see what there is to "love" about WM.... Sorry, I just dont have the time of day for players who mail it in. Also, to think he is a top 10 back in the league is crazy.
BuckeyeBill Posted January 12, 2006 Author Posted January 12, 2006 The only problem with Levy's theory is that it means we end up with guys like Mark Kelso in the secondary...... 562818[/snapback] What's wrong with Kelso? Didn't he get 6-7 interceptions a year for us?
Talonz Posted January 12, 2006 Posted January 12, 2006 The only problem with Levy's theory is that it means we end up with guys like Mark Kelso in the secondary...... 562818[/snapback] At least they would have cool looking helmets!
2003Contenders Posted January 12, 2006 Posted January 12, 2006 I didn't take Marv's comment as a singling out of any player in particular. Marv was just stating his philosophy that he wants guys on his team with character -- not just tons of talent. I think he was outlining his approach to free agency and the draft, rather than suggesting that there were current players that he had it in his mind to let go. In addition to being a great delegator, Marv was always a master motivator. He was able to push different buttons for different players. He was smart enough, for example, to understand that, while Bruce Smith hated practice and avoided training camp like the plague, he always came ready to play on Sunday. He encourgaed Thurman to carry a career-long chip on his shoulder as added motivation. Yet, when he needed to send a message, he was willing to do that too, like cutting Billy Joe Holbert for having not read his playbook. These are all things that hopefully MM can learn from Marv.
Kipers Hair Posted January 12, 2006 Posted January 12, 2006 Quote from our new man in charge, Marv Levy. "The one thing I would interject into the personnel department that I would push very hard is picking players with high character... Ability without character will lose. The Buffalo Bills are going to be a team of high character, that's something I will push for very hard." When I think of a person with exceptional skill, potential, but low on the character front... Willis McGahee jumps to my mind. Now don't get me wrong... I LOVE McGAHEE. He's one of my favorite Buffalo Bills. Yet I hear things from him saying that HE is the best running back in the NFL, that HE should get more carries, that HE might hold out because of HIS wonderful agent named Rosenhaus. This is not high character in my mind, and even though he may be a top 5 talent at the runningback position in the league, might we have a new runningback in 2-3 years? What do you think? Are there other players that you believe to be marked as well? 562809[/snapback] I agree - the thing that is dissappointing, it looks like RB's have little value in free agency or the trade table. When E James can't get a 2nd rounder...what is Willis worth?
ajzepp Posted January 12, 2006 Posted January 12, 2006 What's wrong with Kelso? Didn't he get 6-7 interceptions a year for us? 562823[/snapback] My recollection of Kelso was how he always was the guy coming into the picture on the replay just after the guy had caught the ball, made a football move, and was already celebrating in the endzone.
Fake-Fat Sunny Posted January 12, 2006 Posted January 12, 2006 Quote from our new man in charge, Marv Levy. "The one thing I would interject into the personnel department that I would push very hard is picking players with high character... Ability without character will lose. The Buffalo Bills are going to be a team of high character, that's something I will push for very hard." When I think of a person with exceptional skill, potential, but low on the character front... Willis McGahee jumps to my mind. Now don't get me wrong... I LOVE McGAHEE. He's one of my favorite Buffalo Bills. Yet I hear things from him saying that HE is the best running back in the NFL, that HE should get more carries, that HE might hold out because of HIS wonderful agent named Rosenhaus. This is not high character in my mind, and even though he may be a top 5 talent at the runningback position in the league, might we have a new runningback in 2-3 years? What do you think? Are there other players that you believe to be marked as well? 562809[/snapback] I have seen no signs that the folks making decisions about McGahee share your opinion that he is a low character guy (there seems to be a disconnect between you saying you LOVE him and then citing his claim to be the best RB in the NFL, his call for more carries and his employment of Rosenahaus). The outside objective signs I have seen from the Bills is that they invested in WM's character when they drafted him. The doc's said his injuries were of a type that he "could" make a comeback if he worked. The Bills made a bet on his character that he "would" do the work and make a comeback. Like his taking off (if that is what he did given that our OL was poor and injury issues are uncertain) or not in the second half of this season, the objective reality is that he did comeback from his injury to the tune of gaining 2000 yards rushing quicker than any Bill RB in history, be it Thurman or OJ. Do you really believe that these objective facts are going to be thrown aside because of something WM said? I do not think so. In addition, let's look at the "problems" you site. 1. He said he is the best RB in the NFL. This is a problem? The problem was not that he said this, the problem was that he did not gain 800 yards after he said it. I want my RBs to feel like they are the best in the league no ifs, ands, or buts about it. However, if they say it. , i want them to produce on the field. I do not think it shows any lack of character to make this brag (which actually was not even an unreasonable brag given his first 8 game production) I think it shows unreasonable production not to gain yards after making this brag. However, he has shown the character in coming back from his injury and in his UM workouts in the off-season where his production can improve. 2. He demanded more carries. This is a problem? I want my players to have a just give me the damn ball attitude. 3. He has Drew R as an agent? So what. Rosenidiot gets his money in the free market because he produces the contracts for players. I think he represents idiots like TO and clearly plays fast and loose in episodes like him flip-flopping with TO and the fake phonecall during the draft for WM. However, as far as the particulars of WM, he pledged to make him a first round draft pick and that got done. He put on a show during the draft of WM being fit after his injury and the Bills docs confirmed the clean tears could be repaired and he worked out like an animal to become the fastest Bill RB to 2000 yards in our history. Perhaps you have slept with WM and know him better than any of us posters and can make real judgments about his character. However, i see few objective signs that the Bills braintrust or most people share your concerns. In addition to that, I see NO (zero, nada, zilch) objective signs that any dislike for his brags he did not back up on the field somehow outweigh the reality that he did a bunch of work to comeback from a hideous knee injury.
colin Posted January 12, 2006 Posted January 12, 2006 with a better line and OC willis could top 2k from scrimmage next year. he might be a marked man for the pro bowl
Mark VI Posted January 12, 2006 Posted January 12, 2006 How does the grassy knoll fit into this theory ?
MDH Posted January 12, 2006 Posted January 12, 2006 Now don't get me wrong... I LOVE McGAHEE. He's one of my favorite Buffalo Bills. Yet I hear things from him saying that HE is the best running back in the NFL, that HE should get more carries, that HE might hold out because of HIS wonderful agent named Rosenhaus. 562809[/snapback] I'm not the biggest WM supporter. He's a good, but not great, RB. But when did he ever say that he may hold out? I've not heard that. And to push it even farther, Rosenhaus' clients don't tend to hold out. He gets them into camp on time just about every year (there are a few exceptions). His bark is much bigger than his bite, and despite fan reaction to Rosenhaus GMs like working with him because he gets the job done quickly and he doesn't make them break the bank. Rosenhaus hasn't negotiated ANY of the top contracts in the league. Also, I've never heard any RB say they shouldn't get the ball more. So that only leaves your first point. I agree, it's annoying, but I don't think Marv is going to cut the guy because he ran his mouth once.
stuckincincy Posted January 12, 2006 Posted January 12, 2006 So that only leaves your first point. I agree, it's annoying, but I don't think Marv is going to cut the guy because he ran his mouth once. 562865[/snapback] I wouldn't think so...in any event, they don't seem to have much on the bench. USC's LenDale White intrigues me (he has declared for the draft), but other needs are more pressing. http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/cfootball/255325_cfb12.html
BuckeyeBill Posted January 12, 2006 Author Posted January 12, 2006 I have seen no signs that the folks making decisions about McGahee share your opinion that he is a low character guy (there seems to be a disconnect between you saying you LOVE him and then citing his claim to be the best RB in the NFL, his call for more carries and his employment of Rosenahaus). The outside objective signs I have seen from the Bills is that they invested in WM's character when they drafted him. The doc's said his injuries were of a type that he "could" make a comeback if he worked. The Bills made a bet on his character that he "would" do the work and make a comeback. Like his taking off (if that is what he did given that our OL was poor and injury issues are uncertain) or not in the second half of this season, the objective reality is that he did comeback from his injury to the tune of gaining 2000 yards rushing quicker than any Bill RB in history, be it Thurman or OJ. Do you really believe that these objective facts are going to be thrown aside because of something WM said? I do not think so. In addition, let's look at the "problems" you site. 1. He said he is the best RB in the NFL. This is a problem? The problem was not that he said this, the problem was that he did not gain 800 yards after he said it. I want my RBs to feel like they are the best in the league no ifs, ands, or buts about it. However, if they say it. , i want them to produce on the field. I do not think it shows any lack of character to make this brag (which actually was not even an unreasonable brag given his first 8 game production) I think it shows unreasonable production not to gain yards after making this brag. However, he has shown the character in coming back from his injury and in his UM workouts in the off-season where his production can improve. 2. He demanded more carries. This is a problem? I want my players to have a just give me the damn ball attitude. 3. He has Drew R as an agent? So what. Rosenidiot gets his money in the free market because he produces the contracts for players. I think he represents idiots like TO and clearly plays fast and loose in episodes like him flip-flopping with TO and the fake phonecall during the draft for WM. However, as far as the particulars of WM, he pledged to make him a first round draft pick and that got done. He put on a show during the draft of WM being fit after his injury and the Bills docs confirmed the clean tears could be repaired and he worked out like an animal to become the fastest Bill RB to 2000 yards in our history. Perhaps you have slept with WM and know him better than any of us posters and can make real judgments about his character. However, i see few objective signs that the Bills braintrust or most people share your concerns. In addition to that, I see NO (zero, nada, zilch) objective signs that any dislike for his brags he did not back up on the field somehow outweigh the reality that he did a bunch of work to comeback from a hideous knee injury. 562860[/snapback] I think you have a little too much animosity towards people. Dude... it was a question.
dave mcbride Posted January 12, 2006 Posted January 12, 2006 I have seen no signs that the folks making decisions about McGahee share your opinion that he is a low character guy (there seems to be a disconnect between you saying you LOVE him and then citing his claim to be the best RB in the NFL, his call for more carries and his employment of Rosenahaus). The outside objective signs I have seen from the Bills is that they invested in WM's character when they drafted him. The doc's said his injuries were of a type that he "could" make a comeback if he worked. The Bills made a bet on his character that he "would" do the work and make a comeback. Like his taking off (if that is what he did given that our OL was poor and injury issues are uncertain) or not in the second half of this season, the objective reality is that he did comeback from his injury to the tune of gaining 2000 yards rushing quicker than any Bill RB in history, be it Thurman or OJ. Do you really believe that these objective facts are going to be thrown aside because of something WM said? I do not think so. In addition, let's look at the "problems" you site. 1. He said he is the best RB in the NFL. This is a problem? The problem was not that he said this, the problem was that he did not gain 800 yards after he said it. I want my RBs to feel like they are the best in the league no ifs, ands, or buts about it. However, if they say it. , i want them to produce on the field. I do not think it shows any lack of character to make this brag (which actually was not even an unreasonable brag given his first 8 game production) I think it shows unreasonable production not to gain yards after making this brag. However, he has shown the character in coming back from his injury and in his UM workouts in the off-season where his production can improve. 2. He demanded more carries. This is a problem? I want my players to have a just give me the damn ball attitude. 3. He has Drew R as an agent? So what. Rosenidiot gets his money in the free market because he produces the contracts for players. I think he represents idiots like TO and clearly plays fast and loose in episodes like him flip-flopping with TO and the fake phonecall during the draft for WM. However, as far as the particulars of WM, he pledged to make him a first round draft pick and that got done. He put on a show during the draft of WM being fit after his injury and the Bills docs confirmed the clean tears could be repaired and he worked out like an animal to become the fastest Bill RB to 2000 yards in our history. Perhaps you have slept with WM and know him better than any of us posters and can make real judgments about his character. However, i see few objective signs that the Bills braintrust or most people share your concerns. In addition to that, I see NO (zero, nada, zilch) objective signs that any dislike for his brags he did not back up on the field somehow outweigh the reality that he did a bunch of work to comeback from a hideous knee injury. 562860[/snapback] good post. i personally think he's a few cards short of a full deck, but i do think he plays hard and wants to improve his game. that would suit marv (and practically any other gm, for that matter). moreover, you don't have to be werner von braun to play running back.
Tcali Posted January 12, 2006 Posted January 12, 2006 Trade 'em to the Colts straight up.... 562846[/snapback] Running backs--with a few exceptions(TIKI,RIGGINS to name two) have a very small span of time in which they excel. The EDGE is getting toward the end of his run.McGahee--while not a breakaway guy---probably has more career left.
BuckeyeBill Posted January 12, 2006 Author Posted January 12, 2006 Running backs--with a few exceptions(TIKI,RIGGINS to name two) have a very small span of time in which they excel. The EDGE is getting toward the end of his run.McGahee--while not a breakaway guy---probably has more career left. 562914[/snapback] I think that McGahee is a breakaway guy... it concerns me that he hasn't done it yet. He did in college, that's for sure.
dave mcbride Posted January 12, 2006 Posted January 12, 2006 I think that McGahee is a breakaway guy... it concerns me that he hasn't done it yet. He did in college, that's for sure. 562920[/snapback] if he hasn't shown it yet, he never will. the injury clearly robbed him of that next-level speed he once had.
Billsjunkie Posted January 12, 2006 Posted January 12, 2006 if he hasn't shown it yet, he never will. the injury clearly robbed him of that next-level speed he once had. 562926[/snapback] Exactly. He also wasnt as "big" as he is now. That added weight and muscle will slow you down. He is a power only back now and thats pushing it. I would not be against taking LenDale White with our first pick. I watched his interview on ESPN last night and was very impressed. Very level headed down to earth kid. Not cocky at all. I know we need line help but if there is some way that we can get that shored up before the draft I say we take this kid. If we dont shore it up, then we take Mario Williams or Ngata.
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