stuckincincy Posted January 11, 2006 Posted January 11, 2006 No one gives a rat's ass about the CFL. 561889[/snapback] I do. Hamilton Tiger Cats.
HopsGuy Posted January 11, 2006 Posted January 11, 2006 You are mistaken, it is named as such because of the AFL/NFL situation before the merger. No one gives a rat's ass about the CFL. 561889[/snapback] So you're saying I should stop my "Dieter Brock for the Hall" letter writing campaign? What am I going to do with all this Hamilton Tigercats letterhead?
In space no one can hear Posted January 11, 2006 Posted January 11, 2006 Congratulations Thurman!!! I missed Levy's and Kelly's induction..... I will not be so stupid this time......see you in Canton!
The Dean Posted January 11, 2006 Posted January 11, 2006 No love for Andre huh? So let me get this straight...Warren Moon, the Ultimate fancy passer who never won a damn thing in his life (and I'm not talking Superbowl here, I think he won what...2 playoff games in his entire career?) makes the finalist list but Andre doesnt? And Art Monk DOES NOT belong in the Hall of Fame...he belongs in the Hall of Very Good. Monk played for a long time and padded his stats, but never really dominated IMO. He was just...there. Sure, you'd have to gameplan for him, but the guy just never struck me as elite. Same with Warren Moon...neither belong in the HOF. Out of that list, my best guess for the 2006 HOF Class is... Thurman Thomas Troy Aikman John Madden Reggie White L.C. Greenwood 561873[/snapback] Andre will make it...just not a first ballot guy. I would have voted for him if I had a vote! As far as Moon and Monk...well, they both belong in the Hall, IMO. Their numbers are just too great to deny. Moon's numbers are just awesome when you consider how many years he missed by playing the CFL. Monk was always underrated. I don't think I'd call lasting all those years "padding" the stats. If's not as if he caught the catches in garbage time.
Rico Posted January 11, 2006 Posted January 11, 2006 Excellent, congrats Thurman! And here's to Kuech next month still on the outside looking in... again.
2003Contenders Posted January 11, 2006 Posted January 11, 2006 No love for Andre huh? So let me get this straight...Warren Moon, the Ultimate fancy passer who never won a damn thing in his life (and I'm not talking Superbowl here, I think he won what...2 playoff games in his entire career?) makes the finalist list but Andre doesnt? And Art Monk DOES NOT belong in the Hall of Fame...he belongs in the Hall of Very Good. Monk played for a long time and padded his stats, but never really dominated IMO. He was just...there. Sure, you'd have to gameplan for him, but the guy just never struck me as elite. Same with Warren Moon...neither belong in the HOF. Out of that list, my best guess for the 2006 HOF Class is... Thurman Thomas Troy Aikman John Madden Reggie White L.C. Greenwood 561873[/snapback] Sadly, the case you make AGAINST Monk is probably the same case that Peter King and his ilk have made against Andre. That is, instead of taking his entire body of work and his playoff appearances/performances and using that as a measuring stick, one in which Reed would HAVE to rank amongst the top 10-15 receivers to ever play the game, they instead want to look at game-by-game production, which is far less tantalizing. Reed probably also gets dumped on because of the Super Bowl losses. However, few people realize that, for a time, he had caught more passes in the Super Bowl than any other player in history. It is unfair that he'll be forever remembered for the helmet throwing incident, in SB XXVI instead. Kinda like Jim "Wrong Way" Marshall. Still, Marshall eventually found his way into the Hall, as Andre should one day as well.
BillsGuyInMalta Posted January 11, 2006 Posted January 11, 2006 Andre will make it...just not a first ballot guy. I would have voted for him if I had a vote! As far as Moon and Monk...well, they both belong in the Hall, IMO. Their numbers are just too great to deny. Moon's numbers are just awesome when you consider how many years he missed by playing the CFL. Monk was always underrated. I don't think I'd call lasting all those years "padding" the stats. If's not as if he caught the catches in garbage time. 561982[/snapback] I just cant figure out why Monk is on the finalist list and not Andre Reed. Monk was a 3-time Pro Bowler in a 16 year career. As a WR, he only had 68 TDs. With that small amount of TDs, that puts him around #30 on the all-time WR list. In fact, if you compare Monk to Reed, Andre has him beat in every single vital category. Both played 16 seasons so its easy to compare. Pro Bowls: Monk: 3 Reed: 7 Receptions: Monk: 940 Reed: 951 Receiving Yards: Monk: 12,721 Reed: 13,198 Yards Per Catch: Monk: 13.5 Reed: 14.0 TDs: Monk: 68 Reed: 88 Soooooooooooooooo...why is Monk on the finalist list and Reed is not? I will really be insulted if Monk gets in before Reed does, it just doesnt make sense any way you look at it. The only thing I can think of is that Monk was on a team that won the SB...but Reed did have better playoff stats, so that should also count for something. I guess I dont have a big problem with Monk making the Hall...but not before someone more deserving than him, thats all.
Sanjosebillsfan Posted January 11, 2006 Posted January 11, 2006 Thurmanator will get his induction this summer.
dave mcbride Posted January 11, 2006 Posted January 11, 2006 Was that serious or sarcastic? I can't decide whether I think it was stupid or lame. Your reply will help me determine my feelings. Thanks in advance. 561900[/snapback] i think people outside of buffalo (i.e., the rest of the world) would probably see this past season as the culmination of a 6-year string of failure, which makes the bills one of the least successful teams in recent history. i also think they'll look at the donohoe front office stuff as something that ended pretty badly. also know that guys like len p and peter king vote on this stuff, and i generally get the sense that the national media's perception is that ralph was mercurial and meddling in the situation (not what i necessarily think, by the way). the point is that when these people vote, recent events (as well as the conventional wisdom as to how they transpired) are on their minds, and from an outside perspective, the bills are at the nadir of a pretty bad stretch.
stuckincincy Posted January 11, 2006 Posted January 11, 2006 I just cant figure out why Monk is on the finalist list and not Andre Reed. Monk was a 3-time Pro Bowler in a 16 year career. As a WR, he only had 68 TDs. With that small amount of TDs, that puts him around #30 on the all-time WR list. In fact, if you compare Monk to Reed, Andre has him beat in every single vital category. Both played 16 seasons so its easy to compare. Pro Bowls: Monk: 3 Reed: 7 Receptions: Monk: 940 Reed: 951 Receiving Yards: Monk: 12,721 Reed: 13,198 Yards Per Catch: Monk: 13.5 Reed: 14.0 TDs: Monk: 68 Reed: 88 Soooooooooooooooo...why is Monk on the finalist list and Reed is not? I will really be insulted if Monk gets in before Reed does, it just doesnt make sense any way you look at it. The only thing I can think of is that Monk was on a team that won the SB...but Reed did have better playoff stats, so that should also count for something. I guess I dont have a big problem with Monk making the Hall...but not before someone more deserving than him, thats all. 562047[/snapback] Reed didn't do himself any favors with his end-of-career snits. Some folks think that attitude and behavior count when it comes to bestowing an honor. Having a nice career and then turning into a snot is not a particularly endearing character trait. Folks rightly hold him responsible for his deportment, and will therefore shun him. Life's tough - best to keep one's mouth shut if you want adoration.
BRH Posted January 11, 2006 Posted January 11, 2006 Reed didn't do himself any favors with his end-of-career snits. Some folks think that attitude and behavior count when it comes to bestowing an honor. Having a nice career and then turning into a snot is not a particularly endearing character trait. Folks rightly hold him responsible for his deportment, and will therefore shun him. Life's tough - best to keep one's mouth shut if you want adoration. 562081[/snapback] But, you know, having a nice career while shoving coke up your nose didn't seem to hurt Lawrence Taylor.
Sound_n_Fury Posted January 11, 2006 Posted January 11, 2006 I just cant figure out why Monk is on the finalist list and not Andre Reed. Monk was a 3-time Pro Bowler in a 16 year career. As a WR, he only had 68 TDs. With that small amount of TDs, that puts him around #30 on the all-time WR list. In fact, if you compare Monk to Reed, Andre has him beat in every single vital category. Both played 16 seasons so its easy to compare. Pro Bowls: Monk: 3 Reed: 7 Receptions: Monk: 940 Reed: 951 Receiving Yards: Monk: 12,721 Reed: 13,198 Yards Per Catch: Monk: 13.5 Reed: 14.0 TDs: Monk: 68 Reed: 88 Soooooooooooooooo...why is Monk on the finalist list and Reed is not? I will really be insulted if Monk gets in before Reed does, it just doesnt make sense any way you look at it. The only thing I can think of is that Monk was on a team that won the SB...but Reed did have better playoff stats, so that should also count for something. I guess I dont have a big problem with Monk making the Hall...but not before someone more deserving than him, thats all. 562047[/snapback] TD's per passes caught: Monk: 1 for every 13.8 passes Reed: 1 for every 10.9 passes You beat me to the stats work, but here are some links for everyone to compare the two: Monk's career Reed's career
dave mcbride Posted January 11, 2006 Posted January 11, 2006 Reed didn't do himself any favors with his end-of-career snits. Some folks think that attitude and behavior count when it comes to bestowing an honor. Having a nice career and then turning into a snot is not a particularly endearing character trait. Folks rightly hold him responsible for his deportment, and will therefore shun him. Life's tough - best to keep one's mouth shut if you want adoration. 562081[/snapback] to be honest, i don't think anyone outside of the greater buffalo region and hardcore bills fans notices that stuff at all. most of 'em are jerks, so they don't get judged on that. i'm sure if you asked someone like t.j. simers or peter king, they'd probably have no idea that he had a snit in 1999.
stuckincincy Posted January 11, 2006 Posted January 11, 2006 to be honest, i don't think anyone outside of the greater buffalo region and hardcore bills fans notices that stuff at all. 562092[/snapback] Well, being outside of the Buffalo area since 1978, they do. Folks always remember the negative, HOF voters included. He lifted his leg on the sport that paid him well. I took his words as offensive, following his career and the adulation given, and to today's outside HOF voters, the impression may well be "Good player. Haven't paid much attention about him for the last 10 years, but the last I heard, he MF'd everybody when he left. Next candidate, please." His choice - he ended his career as a Class-A dick.
billfan63 Posted January 11, 2006 Posted January 11, 2006 Reed didn't do himself any favors with his end-of-career snits. Some folks think that attitude and behavior count when it comes to bestowing an honor. Having a nice career and then turning into a snot is not a particularly endearing character trait. Folks rightly hold him responsible for his deportment, and will therefore shun him. Life's tough - best to keep one's mouth shut if you want adoration. 562081[/snapback] Moon made into the final round, no ones holding the fact that he's a wife beater against him.
dave mcbride Posted January 11, 2006 Posted January 11, 2006 Moon made into the final round, no ones holding the fact that he's a wife beateragainst him. 562141[/snapback] bingo. let's not forget LT, michael irvin, and any number of oakland raiders. franco harris' final couple of years were embarassing too. it's not an issue.
John in VA Beach Posted January 11, 2006 Posted January 11, 2006 I know they are not supposed to take this into account, but I'm sure Thurman being a likely induction did not help Reed's chances either. A lot of folks don't like the Bills, but when push comes to shove can't deny their place in history either. I think given the list, Thurman has a great shot at being a first year ballot hof'er and the media who select the finalists know this. Even Irvin and Aikman probably won't go in together due to Irvin's hobbies of the field.
stuckincincy Posted January 11, 2006 Posted January 11, 2006 Moon made into the final round, no ones holding the fact that he's a wife beateragainst him. 562141[/snapback] What are the facts of the case? Do you realize that in many jursdictions, if there is a call to a home, do-gooder legislation requires that somebody be charged? Could be an old couple arguing about an apple pie recipe, a neighbor calls, and bingo, Mom or Pop gets hauled off. My brother is a recently retired NF cop, and he absolutely hated such legislation. Couldn't diffuse things, couldn't use judgement, and had to cuff a lot of folks and haul them downtown over truly stupid stuff. I'm not defending Moon, but if you know the details, let's have 'em. And by the way, stop this "well, HE did this" garbage...that's what a child pulls.. Regardless of Moon et al, it's Reed, and he left the league yammering like an infant with diaper rash. Not exactly a man deserving of admiration...
billfan63 Posted January 11, 2006 Posted January 11, 2006 What are the facts of the case? Do you realize that in many jursdictions, if there is a call to a home, do-gooder legislation requires that somebody be charged? Could be an old couple arguing about an apple pie recipe, a neighbor calls, and bingo, Mom or Pop gets hauled off. My brother is a recently retired NF cop, and he absolutely hated such legislation. Couldn't diffuse things, couldn't use judgement, and had to cuff a lot of folks and haul them downtown over truely stupid stuff. I'm not defending Moon, but if you know the details, let's have 'em. And by the way, stop this "well, HE did this" garbage...that's what a child pulls.. Regaedless of Moon et al, it's Reed, and he left the league yammering like an infant with diaper rash. Not exactly a man deserving of admiration... 562161[/snapback] Well he did. One example,, July 18, 1995 Richmond Texas, the housekeeper witnesses it, the 7 year old sons 911 tape verifies it, The blood on Felicia face and neck proves it. The police photos back it up. Nothing to diffuse here.
BuffaloBud Posted January 11, 2006 Posted January 11, 2006 You are mistaken, it is named as such because of the AFL/NFL situation before the merger. No one gives a rat's ass about the CFL. 561889[/snapback] Well if that is the case why does the "NFL" hall of fame list the background that Bud Grant and Marv Levy have in the CFL in their hall of fame bios? Huh?
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