John from Riverside Posted January 11, 2006 Posted January 11, 2006 It all comes down to when the Bills will stop dicking around their O-line problems and actually go out and fix them. I've watched D'Brickashaw very closely the last two years, in my opinion he would have been the first O-Lineman off the boards last year too. This guy is an anchor, an immediate upgrade rookie like Orlando Pace or Jonathan Ogden...the Bills need this guy so they can keep their QBs upright. Will it cost us our second rounder to move up to GB's spot? Probably...but if that means we dont have to worry about the LT position for the next decade, wouldnt it be worth it? D'Brickashaw dominates at that position, he's not a Mike Williams who has never played LT before...or a fat slob like McKinnie who cant keep his head on straight...this guy is going to be a huge force in the NFL and I really hope its in a Bills uniform. He's big enough to over power DEs and quick enough to stop the speed rushers or pick up blitzing OLBs. Totally worth giving up our second rounder for, IMO. I'm tired of hearing how most people want our O-Line to improve, but not wanting to give up anything to MAKE it happen. And dont get me wrong, say if D'Brickashaw gets taken in the top 4 or GB refuses to trade and we lose out on him...fine, then go ahead and take Mario Williams or Haloti Ngata or Jimmy Williams. But if he falls out of the top 4 and GB is interested...we have to pull the trigger, we cant let a team like San Franciso swoop in and take him a pick before we do and just throw up our hands again and say "Oh gosh darn it, we have the worst luck". 561451[/snapback] I am sure that the Brick IS worth all that and a bag of chips....BUT - This is a quality draft for O Linemen - Given the fact that we need help on BOTH sides of the ball....do we REALLY want to give up that 2nd round pick? This is what I would do IF POSSIBLE - Trade out of the 8th overall for Denvers 2 first round picks - Franchise Nate.....either keep him or trade him (and yes...contrary to how much people undervalue Nate he is the top CB free agent and I do think we can get a late 1st for him That gives us THREE 1st round picks, 1 second, and at least 2 thirds in a deep draft.
tennesseeboy Posted January 11, 2006 Posted January 11, 2006 I am sure that the Brick IS worth all that and a bag of chips....BUT - This is a quality draft for O Linemen - Given the fact that we need help on BOTH sides of the ball....do we REALLY want to give up that 2nd round pick? This is what I would do IF POSSIBLE - Trade out of the 8th overall for Denvers 2 first round picks - Franchise Nate.....either keep him or trade him (and yes...contrary to how much people undervalue Nate he is the top CB free agent and I do think we can get a late 1st for him That gives us THREE 1st round picks, 1 second, and at least 2 thirds in a deep draft. 562125[/snapback] http://football.about.com/od/nationalfootb...uewright.htmery interesting. It would be great if we could pull that off.
Orton's Arm Posted January 11, 2006 Posted January 11, 2006 Not easy. First you have to assume that there is a high market value for Clements after the worst year he has had. Assuming that the market is there, it still leaves a huge hole in our secondary. Sure, the lines would be better, but do you really think McGee can handle the leagues top recievers? Chances are we aren't going to get any extra Safety help this offseason that doesn't come in the form of raw talent with "potential". Our corners need to be GOOD. Clements needs to be franchised and KEPT. Work out a deal if possible, if not...oh well. Maybe he will have a huge year and we can get a high first the next year. IF Clements is traded, we better be bringing in some damn good talent to replace him.I won't even bother with the Spikes thing, as it is too ridiculous to even think about. 562060[/snapback] Face it, this team is in rebuilding mode. You trade away anyone over 30 if there's a market. That means Spikes and Fletcher, even Sam Adams if someone wants him, and of course Eric Moulds. Holcomb too, even though I named my avatar after him. The ONLY type of over-30 player I'd be interested in keeping is a guy who's a) cheap, b) has no trade value, and c) a good mentor for the younger players. As for addressing the CB position, the 2005 season created doubts that Clements is really the answer. Maybe the Bills will get lucky and find a diamond in the rough. If not, they can address the position in the 2007 draft. I really wouldn't mind the team going 2-14 next season, because that would get us better draft position. Think about what's good for the team in 2007 or 2008, not 2006.
Kipers Hair Posted January 11, 2006 Posted January 11, 2006 Face it, this team is in rebuilding mode. You trade away anyone over 30 if there's a market. That means Spikes and Fletcher, even Sam Adams if someone wants him, and of course Eric Moulds. Holcomb too, even though I named my avatar after him. The ONLY type of over-30 player I'd be interested in keeping is a guy who's a) cheap, b) has no trade value, and c) a good mentor for the younger players. As for addressing the CB position, the 2005 season created doubts that Clements is really the answer. Maybe the Bills will get lucky and find a diamond in the rough. If not, they can address the position in the 2007 draft. I really wouldn't mind the team going 2-14 next season, because that would get us better draft position. Think about what's good for the team in 2007 or 2008, not 2006. 562167[/snapback] Right on....I think you have a good grasp of what they are faced with...though Levy had shown a tendency when he was coach to pursue the CB's early - see Crazy Nate Odems and JD Williams. I would not be too surprised by a trade down then taking a CB in the draft, perhaps Williams at 12-15....
Bear Posted January 11, 2006 Posted January 11, 2006 Face it, this team is in rebuilding mode. You trade away anyone over 30 if there's a market. That means Spikes and Fletcher, even Sam Adams if someone wants him, and of course Eric Moulds. Holcomb too, even though I named my avatar after him. The ONLY type of over-30 player I'd be interested in keeping is a guy who's a) cheap, b) has no trade value, and c) a good mentor for the younger players. 562167[/snapback] Not verterans....got it.
Typical TBD Guy Posted January 11, 2006 Posted January 11, 2006 Personally I want Mario Williams. 561560[/snapback] Personally, he's my favorite too. But will he last all the way down to #8? We know that Bush, Leinart, and Young will be taken before him. So that leaves 4 more...
R. Rich Posted January 11, 2006 Posted January 11, 2006 Personally, he's my favorite too. But will he last all the way down to #8? 562189[/snapback] Nobody knows for sure, since you never know what people are going to do in the first round, especially near the top of the round. That said, I believe it's doubtful that Super Mario will be there when the 8th pick comes up.
Orton's Arm Posted January 11, 2006 Posted January 11, 2006 Not verterans....got it. 562184[/snapback] Absolutely no veterans--or at least, no investment in veterans in terms of salary cap or forgone draft picks. It's important to take a cold, hard, unsentimental look at what this team truly is. The only draft picks from the TD era who have proven themselves worthy of a starting position are: McGee Clements Crowell Schobel Evans McGahee Of those six, none have proven they will be above-average for an NFL starter. None. The deep 2006 draft is an excellent opportunity to find a few players who can play at or near an elite level, and be part of this team's core for the next ten years. Not all the draft picks will work out, but I guarantee you that none of the over-30 guys I want to trade for picks will be playing at a high level in five years.
Kipers Hair Posted January 11, 2006 Posted January 11, 2006 Absolutely no veterans--or at least, no investment in veterans in terms of salary cap or forgone draft picks. It's important to take a cold, hard, unsentimental look at what this team truly is. The only draft picks from the TD era who have proven themselves worthy of a starting position are: McGee Clements Crowell Schobel Evans McGahee Of those six, none have proven they will be above-average for an NFL starter. None. The deep 2006 draft is an excellent opportunity to find a few players who can play at or near an elite level, and be part of this team's core for the next ten years. Not all the draft picks will work out, but I guarantee you that none of the over-30 guys I want to trade for picks will be playing at a high level in five years. 562208[/snapback] This man speaks the trust....your not going to win popularity contests on this board with the statements, but I have to agree - an honest assessment. I too would rather get a bunch of young guys and be a viable team for a long time in a year or two rather than slapping a bank-aid on this thing and selling a few more tickets. Keep the faith...
Adam Posted January 11, 2006 Posted January 11, 2006 It all comes down to when the Bills will stop dicking around their O-line problems and actually go out and fix them. I've watched D'Brickashaw very closely the last two years, in my opinion he would have been the first O-Lineman off the boards last year too. This guy is an anchor, an immediate upgrade rookie like Orlando Pace or Jonathan Ogden...the Bills need this guy so they can keep their QBs upright. Will it cost us our second rounder to move up to GB's spot? Probably...but if that means we dont have to worry about the LT position for the next decade, wouldnt it be worth it? D'Brickashaw dominates at that position, he's not a Mike Williams who has never played LT before...or a fat slob like McKinnie who cant keep his head on straight...this guy is going to be a huge force in the NFL and I really hope its in a Bills uniform. He's big enough to over power DEs and quick enough to stop the speed rushers or pick up blitzing OLBs. Totally worth giving up our second rounder for, IMO. I'm tired of hearing how most people want our O-Line to improve, but not wanting to give up anything to MAKE it happen. And dont get me wrong, say if D'Brickashaw gets taken in the top 4 or GB refuses to trade and we lose out on him...fine, then go ahead and take Mario Williams or Haloti Ngata or Jimmy Williams. But if he falls out of the top 4 and GB is interested...we have to pull the trigger, we cant let a team like San Franciso swoop in and take him a pick before we do and just throw up our hands again and say "Oh gosh darn it, we have the worst luck". 561451[/snapback] You usually can't plug a rookie in at left tackle, unless you want to get your QB killed- Arizona went the correct route with Leonard Davis, one that Pittsburgh should have followed with Marvel Smith
dundy249 Posted January 11, 2006 Posted January 11, 2006 Breaking News The Bills have traded there 1st through 3rd round picks to the patriots for Doug Flutie, and Tom Bradys dirty socks.
Dan Posted January 11, 2006 Posted January 11, 2006 A few points to keep in mind: 1. Marv doesn't like starting rookies. So, do we really think he's going to trade veterans like Clements and Spikes, just so he can get draft picks and start the new rookies in their place? I can't see that happening. 2. As has been beaten to death here.. .there are no sure things in the draft. (Hence Marv doesn't like to start rookies.) So, why trade picks to get that one special player when you're not even sure he'll be a good player? Why not pick as many lineman as possible and hope at least one of them pans out? Seems like the more prudent approach to me. 3. Trading or moving anything in any way to get Vince Young is just crazy talk. Stop it now, because it shows that you're drinking to much mountain dew or something. 4. Ralph seemed to open the pocket book back in the early 90's with Marv and got alot of quality players. Isn't it reasonable to think he may do it again? So, we may not be going as cheap in the free agent (or coaching) market as everyone assumes.
BuffaloinAtlanta Posted January 11, 2006 Posted January 11, 2006 I have to comment on the sheer fantasy that is Kelsos Helmets OL for 2006. You're nuts, dude. Bentley and Hutchinson will not get close to leaving their teams.
Typical TBD Guy Posted January 11, 2006 Posted January 11, 2006 I have to comment on the sheer fantasy that is Kelsos Helmets OL for 2006. You're nuts, dude. 562270[/snapback] No sh--, dude. My signature lineup is what I WANT to see happen, not what I think we will actually see happen.
Tcali Posted January 12, 2006 Posted January 12, 2006 "The Green Bay Packers have just traded their first round pick to the Buffalo Bills for their first and second rounders. With the 5th pick in the 2006 draft, the Buffalo Bills select D'Brickashaw Ferguson." 561437[/snapback] Forget D'Brick----get a DE.Get O-linemen in FA.-as well as in 2nd to 4th rounds.If D'Brick is another M Williams--the bills are even more screwed .
frogger Posted January 12, 2006 Posted January 12, 2006 A few points to keep in mind: 1. Marv doesn't like starting rookies. So, do we really think he's going to trade veterans like Clements and Spikes, just so he can get draft picks and start the new rookies in their place? I can't see that happening. 2. As has been beaten to death here.. .there are no sure things in the draft. (Hence Marv doesn't like to start rookies.) So, why trade picks to get that one special player when you're not even sure he'll be a good player? Why not pick as many lineman as possible and hope at least one of them pans out? Seems like the more prudent approach to me. 3. Trading or moving anything in any way to get Vince Young is just crazy talk. Stop it now, because it shows that you're drinking to much mountain dew or something. 4. Ralph seemed to open the pocket book back in the early 90's with Marv and got alot of quality players. Isn't it reasonable to think he may do it again? So, we may not be going as cheap in the free agent (or coaching) market as everyone assumes. 562268[/snapback] please remember that this is not Marv's team, he is not the coach, and he never really dealt with a high draft pick, it's easy to not start rookies when you are the best team in the afc 4 years in a row, and no coach wants to start rookies, I am sure that if it was up to them, they would already be in their third year. the fact of the matter is that this is MM team, that was one of the problems I had with TD, the GM should not decide who starts, his job is to get the best players that fit the system. the coaching staff picks who starts.
billsboys Posted January 12, 2006 Author Posted January 12, 2006 please remember that this is not Marv's team, he is not the coach, and he never really dealt with a high draft pick, it's easy to not start rookies when you are the best team in the afc 4 years in a row, and no coach wants to start rookies, I am sure that if it was up to them, they would already be in their third year. the fact of the matter is that this is MM team, that was one of the problems I had with TD, the GM should not decide who starts, his job is to get the best players that fit the system. the coaching staff picks who starts. 562398[/snapback] "please remember that this is not Marv's team, he is not the coach". I think we all know that, but I think Marv will know who to pick! He's very smart AND I think Ralph said that he would be a part of drafting this year. "Super" Mario Williams! We need him badly!
Orton's Arm Posted January 12, 2006 Posted January 12, 2006 Forget D'Brick----get a DE.Get O-linemen in FA.-as well as in 2nd to 4th rounds.If D'Brick is another M Williams--the bills are even more screwed . 562391[/snapback] And if the DE turns into the next Erik Flowers? . . . Ultimately you face risk no matter what position your draft pick plays.
Orton's Arm Posted January 12, 2006 Posted January 12, 2006 This man speaks the trust....your not going to win popularity contests on this board with the statements, but I have to agree - an honest assessment. I too would rather get a bunch of young guys and be a viable team for a long time in a year or two rather than slapping a bank-aid on this thing and selling a few more tickets. Keep the faith... 562225[/snapback] I wish more posters were like you in valuing honesty over cheerleading.
TigerJ Posted January 12, 2006 Posted January 12, 2006 "The Green Bay Packers have just traded their first round pick to the Buffalo Bills for their first and second rounders. With the 5th pick in the 2006 draft, the Buffalo Bills select D'Brickashaw Ferguson." 561437[/snapback] Boy, you and I aren't on the same page.
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