sven233 Posted January 10, 2006 Posted January 10, 2006 You know, I spend a lot of time on this board. I do my occassional posting if I have something that needs to be said, but for the most part I just like to read the opinions of others and see what all of you are thinking. But, I need to comment on something that I feel has been maybe been looked at wrong. I am here to say that I think we all have been a little to hard on Mike williams. Granted, I know I have been one of his harshest critics, but that is only because I believe he could have been better. Now, I am not going to sit here and tell you he is worth the huge contract he has at this point, but I think we might want to work out a new deal with him and have him say. He IS NOT as bad as we all have made him out to be. It is not a coincidence that Willis' numbers started to drop when Mike went out. In fact, I really think he is a GREAT run blocker (that's right.....i said great). Now, his pass protection is NOT very good at all, but it is about average. Now, with that said, he does have a lack of heart and passion which is too bad because I do think he could be better...maybe even dominant. That alone makes him hateable and that is the source of a lot of negativity here....including myself. That alone makes people want him run out of town. But, I am here to say that may be a mistake. He has a boatload of talent. The challenge is getting it out of him. I don't know if that is possible or not. I don't. But, sometimes it takes players a few years to "figure it out." I would argue with anyone that he was a great lineman the second half of the 2004 season. And, as I stated earlier, it is not just a coincidence that Wills' numbers dropped off this year after he went out. So, what is my point.....well, I guess I am just trying to say that maybe we just can't give up on the guy just yet. He could be a big part of getting our line on track in the future if he just FIGURED IT OUT!! I truly believe that he could be a force if someone could just light a fire under him and got him dedicated. Will that happen......I don't know. I JUST HOPE IT DOES HAPPEN! The last thing I want to see is him to go somewhere else and finally "GET IT" and become a probowler for years to come. I want that to happen here....NOW. Who knows.....I'm probably dead wrong on the guy and he will never get it. But, I just am looking for some hope to turn all this crap that is going on at One Bills Drive. I have been saying this for a long time on this board, but you can fix a lot of problems on this team if you just get a DOMINANT O-LINE. Just picture it for a second: LT - DA BRICK LG - HUTCH C - BENTLEY RG - WILLIAMS (a dominant, passionate Williams) RT - PETERS Ah.........It wouldn't matter anymore who you had a QB.....Any average QB would star behind that line. Willis wouldn't be stopped......Receivers would have ALL DAY to get open!! Even MM trick plays would have a chance at working behind that line. Our offense wouldn't be stopped! OK, I know.........WAKE UP!! Not going to happen. But,if I were in charge, it would happen. If I was GM, all money would go into making dominat Offenseive and Defensive lines. QUALITY BIG MEN MAKE A TEAM GO....THEY WIN GAMES. You could be average at most other positions if you had great Offensive and Defensive lines. So, yeah, if I was in charge, the skilled positions might not have th best talent, but with the lines, they could become abover average. And that is how you build a winning team......FROM THE LINES OUT! It is that simple. If you spend money on the lines, YOU WILL BE A WINNING TEAM. I know, the above situation won't happen, but the concept is correct. I will end this long post with this.......IF YOU WANT TO WIN, AND WIN CONSISTANTLY, IT STARTS WITHE THE BIG MEN ON BOTH SIDES OF THE BALL. PERIOD.
Fan in San Diego Posted January 10, 2006 Posted January 10, 2006 You know, I spend a lot of time on this board. I do my occassional posting if I have something that needs to be said, but for the most part I just like to read the opinions of others and see what all of you are thinking. But, I need to comment on something that I feel has been maybe been looked at wrong. I am here to say that I think we all have been a little to hard on Mike williams. Granted, I know I have been one of his harshest critics, but that is only because I believe he could have been better. Now, I am not going to sit here and tell you he is worth the huge contract he has at this point, but I think we might want to work out a new deal with him and have him say. He IS NOT as bad as we all have made him out to be. It is not a coincidence that Willis' numbers started to drop when Mike went out. In fact, I really think he is a GREAT run blocker (that's right.....i said great). Now, his pass protection is NOT very good at all, but it is about average. Now, with that said, he does have a lack of heart and passion which is too bad because I do think he could be better...maybe even dominant. That alone makes him hateable and that is the source of a lot of negativity here....including myself. That alone makes people want him run out of town. But, I am here to say that may be a mistake. He has a boatload of talent. The challenge is getting it out of him. I don't know if that is possible or not. I don't. But, sometimes it takes players a few years to "figure it out." I would argue with anyone that he was a great lineman the second half of the 2004 season. And, as I stated earlier, it is not just a coincidence that Wills' numbers dropped off this year after he went out. So, what is my point.....well, I guess I am just trying to say that maybe we just can't give up on the guy just yet. He could be a big part of getting our line on track in the future if he just FIGURED IT OUT!! I truly believe that he could be a force if someone could just light a fire under him and got him dedicated. Will that happen......I don't know. I JUST HOPE IT DOES HAPPEN! The last thing I want to see is him to go somewhere else and finally "GET IT" and become a probowler for years to come. I want that to happen here....NOW. Who knows.....I'm probably dead wrong on the guy and he will never get it. But, I just am looking for some hope to turn all this crap that is going on at One Bills Drive. I have been saying this for a long time on this board, but you can fix a lot of problems on this team if you just get a DOMINANT O-LINE. Just picture it for a second: LT - DA BRICK LG - HUTCH C - BENTLEY RG - WILLIAMS (a dominant, passionate Williams) RT - PETERS Ah.........It wouldn't matter anymore who you had a QB.....Any average QB would star behind that line. Willis wouldn't be stopped......Receivers would have ALL DAY to get open!! Even MM trick plays would have a chance at working behind that line. Our offense wouldn't be stopped! OK, I know.........WAKE UP!! Not going to happen. But,if I were in charge, it would happen. If I was GM, all money would go into making dominat Offenseive and Defensive lines. QUALITY BIG MEN MAKE A TEAM GO....THEY WIN GAMES. You could be average at most other positions if you had great Offensive and Defensive lines. So, yeah, if I was in charge, the skilled positions might not have th best talent, but with the lines, they could become abover average. And that is how you build a winning team......FROM THE LINES OUT! It is that simple. If you spend money on the lines, YOU WILL BE A WINNING TEAM. I know, the above situation won't happen, but the concept is correct. I will end this long post with this.......IF YOU WANT TO WIN, AND WIN CONSISTANTLY, IT STARTS WITHE THE BIG MEN ON BOTH SIDES OF THE BALL. PERIOD. 560660[/snapback] Now that would be a great OL. We can only hope and pray !
Navy Chief Navy Pride Posted January 10, 2006 Posted January 10, 2006 I don't want to piss in your Corn FLakes but ask yourself just how reasonable that O-Line really is!
Nanker Posted January 10, 2006 Posted January 10, 2006 you can fix a lot of problems on this team if you just get a DOMINANT O-LINE. Just picture it for a second: LT - DA BRICK LG - HUTCH C - BENTLEY RG - WILLIAMS (a dominant, passionate Williams) RT - PETERS IF YOU WANT TO WIN, AND WIN CONSISTANTLY, IT STARTS WITHE THE BIG MEN ON BOTH SIDES OF THE BALL. PERIOD. 560660[/snapback] So now you're expecting him to dress in a black corsett, leather thong, fishnet stockings and black leather boots while he whips Mularkey - who he's tied up to a chair and ball gagged? Just how's THAT supposed to help now that the NFL is walking away from their Levitra endorsement?
bluv Posted January 10, 2006 Posted January 10, 2006 I agree that he has been scrutinized a little too much, even though he has underachieved based on his pay. He is still a better than average tackle when healthy; not the total scrub some have made him out to be. I think he could fit in a RG as it wouldn't be so unnatural and out of position but who knows if he comes back in shape and motivated he could resume his position at RT and Peters can move to RT as he has the talent BUT the key word is IF and that is the problem with MW, the same with the Bills in general: IF they come in motivated and IF they play to potential but my keyword is WHEN?
SDS Posted January 10, 2006 Posted January 10, 2006 don't worry, there aren't many hard ons for Mike Williams around here...
turftoe Posted January 10, 2006 Posted January 10, 2006 I have a feeling he will turn things around, but, I'm afraid it will be with another team. If the Bills cut him, I could see him getting picked up by a team like Houston. He would be close to home and blocking for Reggie Bush. If he goes, I would like to see the bills get something for him. This would require a bigger hit to our dead money but if we got something in return, it would ease the pain a little bit. We have some flexibility with our cap so it is possible to work some kind of trade. I hope Levy can pull something off. Donahoe pulled off the Peerless trade, and we were tighter to the cap that year.
Fake-Fat Sunny Posted January 10, 2006 Posted January 10, 2006 My guess is also that he gets picked up by another team and that there is a 2 out of 3 chance he does well for the new team. ! chance sees him cave in and not produce because he in fact does lack drive and having signed a #4 slot contract, even with only reasonable financial management he is set for life. If he truly has no personal drive and without a strong fiscal prod he merely signs a make-great contract with a new team and does not even make good. The 2nd chance is the reverse of the first scenario that he signs a make-great contract with a new team and in a new environment with better teaching than he received from Vinky and Ruel and better support from his colleagues who demand/teach him things rather than expecting him to teach Pacillo, he actually performs up to his capabilities. The third chance is that Bills' fans have been too harsh on him and because they really do not know the guy, he actually has more heart than folks give him credit for (and this is a real possibility as: 1. He did show the level of heart necessary to commit to being a great athlere in college. The level of commitment he showed to earn a 4th slot should not be discouted as easily as folks do and his major character outages stemmed from the death of the Grandmother who raised him as a Mom and while his meltdown is not condonable (he had pledges to his teammates and the region and the big contract to be an adult about this tragedy) it is understandable. 2. He did show some good character and commitment when he rebounded from his pre-season meltdown last year to improve as a player and earna gameball last year. In addition, he did work out last off-season and came into this camp in the best shape of his career according to many observers. I think the Bills almost certainly must cut MW this off-season because he simply has not performed at a level even near his huge #4 contract and it calls for him to make too much $ for his level of play i we keep him. I think he and the Bills have so bollixed his development (he bears a lot of the personal responsibility but also Vinky, Ruel and GW let him down as well). Yet, America is a land of second chances and my guess is that he almost certainly will sign a big contract as a reasonable prospect with a new team and I see roughly a 2 out of 3 chance that he will perform well for his new team and be seen ultimately as a success story unless he really does lack heart or gets unlucky with injuries.
dave mcbride Posted January 10, 2006 Posted January 10, 2006 You know, I spend a lot of time on this board. I do my occassional posting if I have something that needs to be said, but for the most part I just like to read the opinions of others and see what all of you are thinking. But, I need to comment on something that I feel has been maybe been looked at wrong. I am here to say that I think we all have been a little to hard on Mike williams. Granted, I know I have been one of his harshest critics, but that is only because I believe he could have been better. Now, I am not going to sit here and tell you he is worth the huge contract he has at this point, but I think we might want to work out a new deal with him and have him say. He IS NOT as bad as we all have made him out to be. It is not a coincidence that Willis' numbers started to drop when Mike went out. In fact, I really think he is a GREAT run blocker (that's right.....i said great). Now, his pass protection is NOT very good at all, but it is about average. Now, with that said, he does have a lack of heart and passion which is too bad because I do think he could be better...maybe even dominant. That alone makes him hateable and that is the source of a lot of negativity here....including myself. That alone makes people want him run out of town. But, I am here to say that may be a mistake. He has a boatload of talent. The challenge is getting it out of him. I don't know if that is possible or not. I don't. But, sometimes it takes players a few years to "figure it out." I would argue with anyone that he was a great lineman the second half of the 2004 season. And, as I stated earlier, it is not just a coincidence that Wills' numbers dropped off this year after he went out. So, what is my point.....well, I guess I am just trying to say that maybe we just can't give up on the guy just yet. He could be a big part of getting our line on track in the future if he just FIGURED IT OUT!! I truly believe that he could be a force if someone could just light a fire under him and got him dedicated. Will that happen......I don't know. I JUST HOPE IT DOES HAPPEN! The last thing I want to see is him to go somewhere else and finally "GET IT" and become a probowler for years to come. I want that to happen here....NOW. Who knows.....I'm probably dead wrong on the guy and he will never get it. But, I just am looking for some hope to turn all this crap that is going on at One Bills Drive. I have been saying this for a long time on this board, but you can fix a lot of problems on this team if you just get a DOMINANT O-LINE. Just picture it for a second: LT - DA BRICK LG - HUTCH C - BENTLEY RG - WILLIAMS (a dominant, passionate Williams) RT - PETERS Ah.........It wouldn't matter anymore who you had a QB.....Any average QB would star behind that line. Willis wouldn't be stopped......Receivers would have ALL DAY to get open!! Even MM trick plays would have a chance at working behind that line. Our offense wouldn't be stopped! OK, I know.........WAKE UP!! Not going to happen. But,if I were in charge, it would happen. If I was GM, all money would go into making dominat Offenseive and Defensive lines. QUALITY BIG MEN MAKE A TEAM GO....THEY WIN GAMES. You could be average at most other positions if you had great Offensive and Defensive lines. So, yeah, if I was in charge, the skilled positions might not have th best talent, but with the lines, they could become abover average. And that is how you build a winning team......FROM THE LINES OUT! It is that simple. If you spend money on the lines, YOU WILL BE A WINNING TEAM. I know, the above situation won't happen, but the concept is correct. I will end this long post with this.......IF YOU WANT TO WIN, AND WIN CONSISTANTLY, IT STARTS WITHE THE BIG MEN ON BOTH SIDES OF THE BALL. PERIOD. 560660[/snapback] the problem is that he will not restructure. in fact, he would be stupid to do so. if he gets cut, there will be enough demand for his services (easily) that he'll command a signing bonus in the 5-7 million range. he'll also have a salary to go along with it. any way you cut it, it'll be more money than the bills would pay him if he agreed to take a pay cut to the level of what he's actually worth. he also has to realize that if he's going to get his career on track, he needs to get the hell out of buffalo.
millbank Posted January 10, 2006 Posted January 10, 2006 don't worry, there aren't many hard ons for Mike Williams around here... 560781[/snapback] -just a pack of old softies
GG Posted January 10, 2006 Posted January 10, 2006 the problem is that he will not restructure. in fact, he would be stupid to do so. if he gets cut, there will be enough demand for his services (easily) that he'll command a signing bonus in the 5-7 million range. he'll also have a salary to go along with it. any way you cut it, it'll be more money than the bills would pay him if he agreed to take a pay cut to the level of what he's actually worth. he also has to realize that if he's going to get his career on track, he needs to get the hell out of buffalo. 560915[/snapback] It's highly unlikely that given MW's reputation in the league & last season's performance, that he'll be able to get $$$. His realistic contract value is what Gandy received, or Shelton, or Clement = not much.
dave mcbride Posted January 10, 2006 Posted January 10, 2006 It's highly unlikely that given MW's reputation in the league & last season's performance, that he'll be able to get $$$. His realistic contract value is what Gandy received, or Shelton, or Clement = not much. 560922[/snapback] i really think that his perceived value is more than those guys, and remember that these teams won't have to deal with the dashed hopes for a lottery pick. also, there are going to be teams with crappy o-lines -- and there are a lot of them -- who will see treasure where we see trash. what sort of bonus did guys like marco rivera and mike wahle get? they're guards, and they got decent numbers.
Kelly the Dog Posted January 10, 2006 Posted January 10, 2006 I guess I don't think we should be too hard on Mike Williams either, because, seriously, he's not really been too hard on his opponent.
JDG Posted January 10, 2006 Posted January 10, 2006 It's highly unlikely that given MW's reputation in the league & last season's performance, that he'll be able to get $$$. His realistic contract value is what Gandy received, or Shelton, or Clement = not much. 560922[/snapback] I think you hit an interesting question on what Clements will receive as a FA. Obviously cap cuts haven't happened yet, but taking a look at the early FA market, and Clements is *easily* the #2 CB available behind Ty Law - and Clements has the added bonus of being young. The next best guys I saw were of the caliber of Deshea Townsend and Jerry Azumah. So, Clements might well get a big pay day by default - he holds the supply, and there is plenty of demand. As for Mike Williams, I take a middle road. There will be some demand for his services, just based on pedigree and potential, so he could get more than Gandy - but it won't be a huge payday. As for the proposed OLine above - I think that is the first Fantasy Football OLine I have ever seen. The cap hit of the above oline would completely hamstring this football team. JDG
dave mcbride Posted January 10, 2006 Posted January 10, 2006 I think you hit an interesting question on what Clements will receive as a FA. Obviously cap cuts haven't happened yet, but taking a look at the early FA market, and Clements is *easily* the #2 CB available behind Ty Law - and Clements has the added bonus of being young. The next best guys I saw were of the caliber of Deshea Townsend and Jerry Azumah. So, Clements might well get a big pay day by default - he holds the supply, and there is plenty of demand. As for Mike Williams, I take a middle road. There will be some demand for his services, just based on pedigree and potential, so he could get more than Gandy - but it won't be a huge payday. As for the proposed OLine above - I think that is the first Fantasy Football OLine I have ever seen. The cap hit of the above oline would completely hamstring this football team. JDG 560929[/snapback] i think gg is referring to anthony clement, not nate clements.
port allegany Posted January 10, 2006 Posted January 10, 2006 Unbelievably, given the performance we've received for the #4 money we paid, MW is holding all the cards. Why would he resign for less money in Buffalo? He'll get his money anyway, he'd get a signing bonus elsewhere on top of that because someone will take a chance on that level of talent, and he's dug a pretty deep hole here in Buffalo for himself. The only real hope is the guy has some character and feels some sense of fairness. If he'll take a cut (pay him $4M if that's the cap hit anyway), we need to get off his case and let him play. It's going to cost real money to replace him so there is a lot of reasons ($$$) to resign him on a restructured contract. I also believe the guy may yet turn into an All-Pro at either RT or G. Why not take the chance, especially when the money is gone anyway. It will take a lot of convincing and persuasion to get him to resign with Buffalo. Maybe that's exactly the strengths of Marv Levy as GM. Maybe he can connect with the guy by talking about pride and redemption. Marv can motivate and Marv has shown an ability to connect. I, for one, hope he's successful.
GG Posted January 10, 2006 Posted January 10, 2006 i really think that his perceived value is more than those guys, and remember that these teams won't have to deal with the dashed hopes for a lottery pick. also, there are going to be teams with crappy o-lines -- and there are a lot of them -- who will see treasure where we see trash. what sort of bonus did guys like marco rivera and mike wahle get? they're guards, and they got decent numbers. 560926[/snapback] LJ Shelton was also a relatively high 1st Rd draft pick, who signed a contract extension with Cards, and I believe Cards also tool a cap hit in releasing Clement (yes the OT not the CB). The issue I have with your analogy is that Wahle & Rivera were at the top of everyone's wish lists in a weak FA year for OLs. MW has a ton of motivational questions about him that are widely known in the league, which will translate to low interest in free agency. I have a hard time believing he'll get much more than what Bennie or Demulling got. His best financial bet is to restructure with Bills to take smaller pay.
dave mcbride Posted January 10, 2006 Posted January 10, 2006 LJ Shelton was also a relatively high 1st Rd draft pick, who signed a contract extension with Cards, and I believe Cards also tool a cap hit in releasing Clement (yes the OT not the CB). The issue I have with your analogy is that Wahle & Rivera were at the top of everyone's wish lists in a weak FA year for OLs. MW has a ton of motivational questions about him that are widely known in the league, which will translate to low interest in free agency. I have a hard time believing he'll get much more than what Bennie or Demulling got. His best financial bet is to restructure with Bills to take smaller pay. 560951[/snapback] well, we'll know soon enough!
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