GG Posted January 9, 2006 Posted January 9, 2006 GG thinks character means (if Marv is consistant frm past to present) playing hard between the whistles. Does TO not play hard? Did Deion Sanders not play hard? Did Bryan Cox not play hard? Are these the character guys that we are considering or avoiding? Would Steve Smith find a place on this team? He does a lot of celebrating... My point is - this whole "character" thing is equivalent to the CEO announcing the company will pursue "synergy". It's a buzz word that means squat. The Buffalo Bills need football players who have more talent than the other teams and they need better coaches who put those players in positions to take advantage of that talent. It is really that simple. No string of corny cliches have ever beaten a football team... 559478[/snapback] Why don't we have GG erudiate what GG means? You are right, it is very difficult to define exactly what "character" is in the make up of a football team. But just like in the world I deal with every day, when I hear the word synergy, I first look at the person uttering the phrase. Jack Welch talking about synergy is totally different than a punk 25-yr old dot com CEO talking about synergy. Every single team says they want the "character" guys. The difference, as always is who can turn the roster of athletic freaks, but social miscreants, into a functional unit that more often than not, trounces the opponent. Marv Levy has shown that he can do that at every level that he has coached. You call him out for taking liberties with sugarcoated nostalgia. But you give him zero credit for turning Bickering Bills into one of the greatest runs a football team ever had.
SJ Bills backer Posted January 9, 2006 Posted January 9, 2006 Why don't we have GG erudiate what GG means? You are right, it is very difficult to define exactly what "character" is in the make up of a football team. But just like in the world I deal with every day, when I hear the word synergy, I first look at the person uttering the phrase. Jack Welch talking about synergy is totally different than a punk 25-yr old dot com CEO talking about synergy. Every single team says they want the "character" guys. The difference, as always is who can turn the roster of athletic freaks, but social miscreants, into a functional unit that more often than not, trounces the opponent. Marv Levy has shown that he can do that at every level that he has coached. You call him out for taking liberties with sugarcoated nostalgia. But you give him zero credit for turning Bickering Bills into one of the greatest runs a football team ever had. 559533[/snapback] Amen.
SDS Posted January 9, 2006 Posted January 9, 2006 But you give him zero credit for turning Bickering Bills into one of the greatest runs a football team ever had. 559533[/snapback] It is a question that cannot be answered, but I put Polian 1st and the HoF players he stocked the team with 2nd. In my mind, Levy was always a distant 3rd... I guess I remember all the arguments about us being outcoached back then (arguments that never seem to be made about Gibbs, Parcells, and company). I remember him being shown the door by a disgruntled fan base (again, not something other HoF caliber coaches face). And most importantly, I look at the 40+ positions that have been filled since Marv's departure w/o a single team giving him the clipboard. A HoF coach that no one (in the position of actually hiring a coach) wanted. Even after he begged to coach, no one wanted him. Can you conceive of Joe Gibbs suffering such a fate? Parcells? Walsh? The list goes on... So, while the NFL may have respect for Marv and the way he handles himself - the proof is in the pudding. He was a coach that made it into the HoF, that no one else wanted when he was available... Does that not strike you or anybody else as very, fuggin' weird? I do. If I was so wrong in my assessment, if I was so offbase - why wouldn't another team - any team - take a flyer on him? Polian, despite his kind words, didn't even hire him for Indy. He claims to have "pushed" for him to get back into teh league, just not for his team... That is a vote of confidence for you. There is an awful lot of smoke here. I can listen to teh Bills faithful who tell me he walks on water, or I can take note of the 31 other NFL teams that could give a flip about him. I guess the latter holds more weight to me. But, that is just my opinion.
SDS Posted January 9, 2006 Posted January 9, 2006 P.S. As my new avatar indicates - this whole situation reminds me of Shallow Hal. BillsNation gaze upon Marv as Gweneth Paltrow, yet the rest of the world views him as Rosie O'Donnell... The question is, which group needs the glasses?
Bill from NYC Posted January 9, 2006 Posted January 9, 2006 Holy crap... if you believe this crap then you are a bigger <fill in the blank> than I thought. Cornelius Bennett stuck some poor girl in the can against her will, Jim Kelly threw drinks in women's faces, partied his ass off, and stuck small businesses with the tab for his failed restaurant. Bruce Smith never participated in training camp, was suspended for substance abuse, and was found asleep at a stop light (I also believe there is a famous picture on the bench with his hat sideways). He also celebrated after EVERYTHING he did. Thurman Thomas told some poor kid to go f' his mother (or something similar)... I'm sure the list goes on and on and on... So if WM can even read, I expect him to throw the book back poor ol' Marv and call him a liar. 559048[/snapback] Scott, this is a reach......Do you remember a linebacker that we signed in the mid ninties? He was from KC, and had some huge legal problems. He was a backup and was decent for a very short time. He only lasted for part of one season as I recall. I remember that someone posted his criminal record, and it was pretty ugly. Can any of you smart people remember his name?
SJ Bills backer Posted January 9, 2006 Posted January 9, 2006 P.S. As my new avatar indicates - this whole situation reminds me of Shallow Hal. BillsNation gaze upon Marv as Gweneth Paltrow, yet the rest of the world views him as Rosie O'Donnell... The question is, which group needs the glasses? 559579[/snapback] On further review, SDS's impeccable logic, and revisionist history, Marv Levy is now OFFICIALLY removed from the hall of fame. Give me aa freakin break... I don't mind you expressing your opinions and facts here, SDS, but I think you'll find you're in the minority. But I have to give the man his due. He was a HALL OF FAME COACH. He led the Bills to 4 Superbowls. Quote whatever you want from his book, talk about Thurman's helmet, Bennett's sex life, Levy's lack of employment in coaching when he retired (isn't this what retirement means), but nothing you say can take THAT away...
BobbyC81 Posted January 9, 2006 Posted January 9, 2006 I take it Marv doesn't care too much for an Eric King. Throughout the preseason and season, that guy had a few unsportsmanlike penalties and was involved in alot of trash-talking on the field.
Kultarr Posted January 9, 2006 Posted January 9, 2006 Scott, this is a reach......Do you remember a linebacker that we signed in the mid ninties? He was from KC, and had some huge legal problems. He was a backup and was decent for a very short time. He only lasted for part of one season as I recall. I remember that someone posted his criminal record, and it was pretty ugly. Can any of you smart people remember his name? 559690[/snapback] Do you mean Wayne Simmons?
MRudney Posted January 9, 2006 Author Posted January 9, 2006 It is a question that cannot be answered, but I put Polian 1st and the HoF players he stocked the team with 2nd. In my mind, Levy was always a distant 3rd... I guess I remember all the arguments about us being outcoached back then (arguments that never seem to be made about Gibbs, Parcells, and company). I remember him being shown the door by a disgruntled fan base (again, not something other HoF caliber coaches face). And most importantly, I look at the 40+ positions that have been filled since Marv's departure w/o a single team giving him the clipboard. A HoF coach that no one (in the position of actually hiring a coach) wanted. Even after he begged to coach, no one wanted him. Can you conceive of Joe Gibbs suffering such a fate? Parcells? Walsh? The list goes on... So, while the NFL may have respect for Marv and the way he handles himself - the proof is in the pudding. He was a coach that made it into the HoF, that no one else wanted when he was available... Does that not strike you or anybody else as very, fuggin' weird? I do. If I was so wrong in my assessment, if I was so offbase - why wouldn't another team - any team - take a flyer on him? Polian, despite his kind words, didn't even hire him for Indy. He claims to have "pushed" for him to get back into teh league, just not for his team... That is a vote of confidence for you. There is an awful lot of smoke here. I can listen to teh Bills faithful who tell me he walks on water, or I can take note of the 31 other NFL teams that could give a flip about him. I guess the latter holds more weight to me. But, that is just my opinion. 559575[/snapback] Maybe it is just me because I don't usually post on here, but I am confused. It sounds as if you are trying to convice people that Marv Levy was not a good coach, and he was lucky the Bills hired him. He was lucky Bill Polian was here. He was lucky he had a talented team. I am going to put my faith in the guys that played on his team, and constantly praise his coaching ability. I am going to put my faith in his former bosses (Polian and Ralph), who have the utmost respect for what he accomplished. I am going to put my faith in the HOF voters who elected him. I wouldn't say that he was the greatest coach of all time, because that would be a stretch. I won't say he will be the greatest GM of all time, beause that would be a stretch. I will say that he will bring leadership and stability to a franchise in desperate need, and that is not a stretch. There are many talented teams out there that do not go to the super bowl. There are teams in all professional sports that are filled with talent, but cannot translate that talent to wins. To not give any credit to Levy for the Bills greatness is ridiculous. As for the business analogies and all of the talk about synergy, here is another. Let's take a company with the most qualified workforce (players) and one of the greatest CEO's (Polian). Now let's put manager's and director's (coaches) in place who don't belong in their role and do not empower their employee's. You tell me how long that company will last. That is what you are trying to explain was the situation.
Sound_n_Fury Posted January 9, 2006 Posted January 9, 2006 Do you mean Wayne Simmons? 560098[/snapback] Damn, you beat me to it! He wasn't on Marv's watch, BTW, but he was a fine young man. (now he's just a dead one)
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