eball Posted January 6, 2006 Posted January 6, 2006 First off you can put that 3-13 season in John Butler's lap. Donahoe did a great job cleaning up that mess quickly and then starting to stock the Bills with good talent.Second, your assertation that his bad moves outweight his good ones is specious at best. And thirdly, drop the nonsens about 5 disappointing season since at the beginning of this year almost everybody on here was singing his praises and was happy with the direction the Bills were moving. But one year in which the Bills weren't going to contend anyways is suddenly submarined by a couple subpar coordinators, a plethora of OLine injuries and a rookie QB and suddenly the GM is the devil. Whatever. 557564[/snapback] Good moves: -- Releasing Bills from cap jail -- Fleecing Falcons in Price trade -- Takeo -- London -- Fleecing Titans in Henry trade -- Some decent draft picks (probably better than NFL average) Questionable/Bad moves: -- Mike Williams at # 4 overall -- as a RIGHT TACKLE -- Gregg "The Interview" Williams -- CFL Uniforms (sorry, had to put it there) -- Bledsoe -- High motor white guys on DL -- Drafting for skill positions while O and D lines suffer -- Alienation of fan base (tells us he's "embarrassed to be part of the community") Too soon to judge: -- Losman -- McGahee (gave up potential 1st round impact player and lost a year taking this gamble; while McGahee is good, hasn't shown he will be a superstar yet) -- Mularkey Bottom Line: 31-49, no playoffs, worst run since 82-86. It was time to move on.
Sound_n_Fury Posted January 6, 2006 Posted January 6, 2006 Bottom Line: 31-49, no playoffs, worst run since 82-86. It was time to move on. 557635[/snapback] Another thread mentioned that this was the third worst winning percentage in the NFL over that time period.
Rico Posted January 6, 2006 Posted January 6, 2006 Since August injuries have felled RTucker, KEverett, BSobieski, CVillarial, LSmith, TEuhus, MWilliams, MCampbell, and GJerman. That's 9 freaking guys from just one unit. But don't let that stop your spin machine. 557564[/snapback]
Simon Posted January 7, 2006 Posted January 7, 2006 Good moves: -- Releasing Bills from cap jail -- Fleecing Falcons in Price trade -- Takeo -- London -- Fleecing Titans in Henry trade -- Some decent draft picks (probably better than NFL average) Probably in top5-10 of NFL drafts would be more accurate. To this list I would add: Finding udfa's like RBaker, JPeters, JGreer, ShaudWilliams, etc Bringing in Sam Adams, MGandy, TTeague, CVilarial at palatable contracts Adding guys like Bobby April, Jim McNally and Tyke Tolbert Trading for the very solid MCampbell Not overpaying for Winfield and JJennings Stealing McGahee late in the 1strnd Upgrading QB's from RJ/Flutie to Losman/Holcombe Smart extensions for Schobel & McGee Questionable/Bad moves: -- Mike Williams at # 4 overall -- as a RIGHT TACKLE -- Gregg "The Interview" Williams -- CFL Uniforms (sorry, had to put it there) -- Bledsoe -- High motor white guys on DL -- Drafting for skill positions while O and D lines suffer -- Alienation of fan base (tells us he's "embarrassed to be part of the community") Uniforms and media gossip? What are you, a freaking woman? What the hell do those things have to do with football? Schobel, Kelsay and TAnderson are bad moves because they're white? Whatever. Williams hasn't lived up to his draft slot but it doesn't mean he sucks or it was a bad move. GWilliams was a no harm/no foul hire. And between the RoscoeParrish pick and the Bills next round pick there was a grand total of 5 offensive and defensive linemen taken, none of whom are starters. So basically the only legitimate thing you have on there was Bledsoe, and you were probably at the parade with the other 98% of Bills' fans. To this "list" I would add: Letting PhatPat and Bryce Fisher get away Bringing in Clements and allowing JGray to remain Signing Benny Anderson and JPosey So we have a big long list of good moves and a little short list of bad moves. He's not perfect. Off with his head!!! Bottom Line:31-49, no playoffs, worst run since 82-86. It was time to move on. 28-36 would be more accurate and while it's not good, it's also not horrible coming out of cap hell and playing in the league's toughest division until this year. The biggest problem is that we didn't "move on". We moved backwards. Congrats to the squeaky wheels for getting what they were crying for. It'll be interesting to see how the Bills do compared to whatever organization Donahoe ends up running.
JAMIEBUF12 Posted January 7, 2006 Posted January 7, 2006 i'd like to see td become the new york jets gm! maybe he can give the saints two #1 picks for aaron brooks..............stay tuned!
Buffal0 Bill5 Posted January 7, 2006 Posted January 7, 2006 Maybe it has something to do with the 115-77 record his teams put together in Pittsburgh? Or the 5 division titles they won? Or the 3 conference championships they played in? Or the plethora of fantastic drafts, personell decisions or great coaching hires he made?But I guess one disapointing 5-11 season is more important than all that. 557534[/snapback] You were only dissapointed with one of his seasons here?
JAMIEBUF12 Posted January 7, 2006 Posted January 7, 2006 Maybe it has something to do with the 115-77 record his teams put together in Pittsburgh? Or the 5 division titles they won? Or the 3 conference championships they played in? Or the plethora of fantastic drafts, personell decisions or great coaching hires he made?But I guess one disapointing 5-11 season is more important than all that. 557534[/snapback] well he never had "great coaching hires" he hired one good coach bill cower.....................after that he hired greg williams and mike mularky.id say he is 1 for 3!
Simon Posted January 7, 2006 Posted January 7, 2006 You were only dissapointed with one of his seasons here? 557855[/snapback] I was a little disappointed with GWilliams' last season here as I thought it was the first year which TD/Modrak had broken free of the salary cap fetters and had put together a nice roster for him that might challenge for a playoff spot. But being hamstrung with Bledsoe and a flatering staff was simply to much to overcome. And of course I was disappointed with this season, but I can't say that it was because it was really surprising. Going into the season with a rookie QB, having lost our defensive leader and lynchpin and then suffering so many injuries over the first month pretty much spelled disaster before we could even get started. By all apearances the Bills were setting themselves up for 2006 anyways, but I don't think anybody knew just how ugly (and even surreal) it was going to get. It just got so strange that by the time the 2nd miamuh game was over, it seemed like everybody was desperate to do something, regardless of whether or not it was the right thing. So do something we did, but in my opinion that something was to take a step backwards. well he never had "great coaching hires" he hired one good coach bill cower In addition to Cowher, while he was in P'burgh he also brought in Dick Lebeau, Bobby April, Dom Capers and Mike Mularkey. All of whom have been succesful in this league.
Grant Posted January 7, 2006 Posted January 7, 2006 Let's play the Donahoe Limbo! How far backwards will you have to bend to portray his work here positively? Probably in top5-10 of NFL drafts would be more accurate. I find this to be a rather dubious claim. I don't think the Bills have been the worst in the Draft over Donahoe's reign, but they absolutely haven't been in the top 10 - much less the top 5, are you crazy? We had a good 2001 draft (picks: 12 / current starters: 2 / starting-worthy: 4), an embarassingly abysmal 2002 draft (picks: 10 / current starters 0 /starting-worthy: 1), a decent 2003 draft (picks: 8 / starters: 4 / starting-worthy: 4) and it's too early to judge with 04 and 05 although things, at this point, look iffy. All of those starters or players that could start were taken in the first 3 rounds, except Terrence McGee who was a fourth-rounder. The markings of a "good" draft is the ability to find diamonds-in-the-rough in the later rounds. A general manager should be able to find starters in the first three rounds; that's not praise-worthy. Next, you add in some good moves from Donahoe's term. I'll only bring up what I find questionable. Finding udfa's like RBaker, JPeters, JGreer, ShaudWilliams, etc These acquisitions are certainly worthy of praise. Although, a cynic could argue that these moves were made necessary by poor drafting. But I'll give it to you. Bringing in Sam Adams, MGandy, TTeague, CVilarial at palatable contracts Wait, I thought we were blaming the offensive line for our troubles this year. Gandy, Teague, Villarial were good moves? Maybe your point is that since we were able to get them cheap and they started, that's good value. Stealing McGahee late in the 1strnd This is iffy. We certainly didn't steal McGahee as he was picked in the late first round where he was expected to go and at the time running back was not a concern. We had a solid, if unspectactular, back in Henry and glaring offensive line concerns. G Eric Steinbach went shortly after in the beginning of the 2nd round and has been quite good for them. Upgrading QB's from RJ/Flutie to Losman/Holcombe. This must be one of those "potential" upgrades because so far Losman hasn't even been as competent as Rob Johnson. And Holcomb has certainly been no Flutie. Uniforms and media gossip? What are you, a freaking woman? What the hell do those things have to do with football? Settle down, you dirty player you. Williams hasn't lived up to his draft slot but it doesn't mean he sucks or it was a bad move. I don't know how you typed this one out without snickering. Even forgetting that Mike Williams went 4th overall, he isn't starting on our team anymore. He lost his spot to an undrafted tight end. How embarassing is that? Not to mention he can't stay healthy for more than three minutes. I've seen the counter-argument that Williams should be ignored from Donahoe's resume because "everyone" thought Williams was a good pick at number four, and besides, who else would we have taken? Well, I think that's a stupid argument. For one, we should expect our General Manager to be a little more competent than Peter King of Sports Illustrated, okay? That's why he gets the big bucks. Secondly, if Donahoe wasn't convinced that Williams would be a good player, you need to trade down. Maybe he wouldn't have found a trading partner, but as far as we know he didn't even try. And that means it was a bad move because there were questions pre-draft about his motivation and health but we took him anyway at number four and gave him a huge contract. GWilliams was a no harm/no foul hire. Suffering through 3 years (oh, sorry, there were only 2 according to your "non-spin" version) of stupid game day decisions seems like a harm and a foul to me. 28-36 would be more accurate and while it's not good, it's also not horrible coming out of cap hell and playing in the league's toughest division until this year. 28-36 is a nice spin. "Not good, not horrible" is another friendly phrase. It makes it sound like we saw some progress. What a fuzzy thought. "Cap hell" is an excuse, as is "league's toughest division." After 5 years, it's ridiculous to need to have to bend so far backwards to make that time not seem unbearable. The biggest problem is that we didn't "move on". We moved backwards.Congrats to the squeaky wheels for getting what they were crying for. It'll be interesting to see how the Bills do compared to whatever organization Donahoe ends up running. 557826[/snapback] And your wheel has been nice and quiet!
Simon Posted January 7, 2006 Posted January 7, 2006 I don't think the Bills have been the worst in the Draft over Donahoe's reign, but they absolutely haven't been in the top 10 - much less the top 5 Find 10 teams that have gotten more out of there 2001-2004 drafts. Gandy, Teague, Villarial were good moves? Gandy started 16 games at LT and played very well on a cheap contract. I'd call that a good move. Vilarial and Teague have both looked very good when healthy, but they've both been struggling with injuries. Teague's got a bum shoulder that maynever be right again and Vilarial was in the freaking hospital at the beginning of the season. at the time running back was not a concern. We had a solid, if unspectactular, back in Henry Henry was not a solid back. What we had was a back who frequently put the ball on the ground, wouldn't block, couldn't catch and was dumber than a rock. Donahoe was one of the few people to recognize the peril quick enough and then address it with McGahee who might be dynamite if we can get him behind a good healthy OLine. This must be one of those "potential" upgrades because so far Losman hasn't even been as competent as Rob Johnson. And Holcomb has certainly been no Flutie. I think Losman has already shown better instincts than RJ in his limited time. As for Holcombe being no Flutie, all I can say is thank christ. He lost his spot to an undrafted tight end.....Not to mention he can't stay healthy for more than three minutes. No, he lost his spot to a high ankle sprain and a back injury. And up until this year he was averaging about 14 games/year. But one injury-plagued season and now he can't stay healthy. Uh-huh. Maybe he wouldn't have found a trading partner, but as far as we know he didn't even try. As far as we know, he tried desperately. But the truth is that we have no clue. The fact that you want to assume that he didn't even try only exposes your preconceived notions. 28-36 is a nice spin. "Not good, not horrible" is another friendly phrase. It makes it sound like we saw some progress. What a fuzzy thought. "Cap hell" is an excuse, as is "league's toughest division." After 5 years, it's ridiculous to need to have to bend so far backwards to make that time not seem unbearable. What I find ridiculous is the inability or refusal to look at the situation in depth, ignoring everything but the simplest and easiest answers to complex problems. But to each his own. And your wheel has been nice and quiet! It has been for quite a while, but now it's clobberin' time.
Orton's Arm Posted January 7, 2006 Posted January 7, 2006 First off, I'll agree with Simon that TD's first year (3-13) should be ignored because he was cleaning up the salary cap mess. I'm not willing to ignore the four subsequent playoff free years. The three most important areas of a team are QB, OL, and DL. After five years, there is uncertainty at QB, nobody worthy of being a starter on OL, and maybe one starter-worthy player on the DL. That's pathetic. TD has only acquired two proven offensive skill position players: McGahee and Evans. He has only drafted three starter-worthy defensive players in the back seven: Crowell, McGee, and Clements. And it looks like Clements will walk. Too much of the success the Bills had in those 8-8 and 9-7 years was based on quick-fix free agent solutions, instead of building through the draft. Unfortunately, those free agents got old in a hurry, which is why the team is now in rebuilding mode.
Draconator Posted January 7, 2006 Posted January 7, 2006 With all that's been said... TD will be the new RAW General Manager. This last year made him the perfect canadate.
Nanker Posted January 7, 2006 Posted January 7, 2006 Find 10 teams that have gotten more out of there 2001-2004 drafts. 557947[/snapback] You've lost me here. Not hard to do, grant you, but the logic in this statement leads me to believe The Bills have a roster that's in the Top 10 of the league. My eyes deceive if that is the case. Now, who am I supposed to believe - you or my lying eyes? One possibility would be that we do have one of the top talented rosters in the league. In that case all the coaches should be vaporized and their oxygen-bonded carbon atoms should be sent to Mars. Maybe I just need another drink and to think things over some more.
AJ1 Posted January 7, 2006 Posted January 7, 2006 Authors "The Binocular Guide to Ralph Wilson Stadium".
ExiledInIllinois Posted January 8, 2006 Posted January 8, 2006 "Ice boy" for Penthouse magazine. Hey... Not a bad "fall-back" profession!
seq004 Posted January 8, 2006 Posted January 8, 2006 As long as he stays in the division I'll be happy!
Trilat Posted January 8, 2006 Posted January 8, 2006 Fluffer in the Rodeo 557347[/snapback] ...Jizz skimmer in a San Francisco bath house.
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