Squeally Posted January 6, 2006 Posted January 6, 2006 You are right about the above, but the rest of your post is hazy. You have been on this board for some time. It consists of hardcore Bills fans with differing personalities. Can you really fault the doubters such as myself and SDS? The football team that we love is now being led by 2 men who total 167 years in age. Please, read this again. 167 years. Our head coach must answer to these two. They are his bosses. One certainly will not know what he is talking about. The other may or may not. This has all of the makings of a sad state of affairs, wouldn't you say? No, I DON'T know how this will turn out. What I do know is that Levy lost the team at the end of his coaching career, and he was old then. He would stand next to Mauck, cursing at the refs. Mauck was cursing AND spitting. It was ridiculous 10 years ago. Now, he has the final say on draft day. Great. You might make a case that Modrak will run the draft. Are you sure? Modrak seems to be accustomed to taking a backseat, or at least let us hope that it was TD and not him who brought us the likes of Parrish, Everret, Mike Williams, Reed, and many more losers/sub-par/situational players with choice picks. A best case scenario would be that the 80 year old was brought back to console/placate the 87 year old. Does this really sound good to you? I will never give up. The Bills are a passion of mine. I have fallen in love with WNY as well. This does not mandate me to feel good about what I perceive as an embarrassing mess. Nor does it stop me from hoping for the best. GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 556837[/snapback] Isn't that a little pre-mature on Parrish?? He was playing really well before he broke his hand. Granted it was in preseason, but he seems to be a playmaker...
East Brady Posted January 6, 2006 Posted January 6, 2006 I see it hasn't taken long for all you guys to switch from drinking kool-aid to drinking Metimucil.....
34-78-83 Posted January 6, 2006 Posted January 6, 2006 I see it hasn't taken long for all you guys to switch from drinking kool-aid to drinking Metimucil..... 556985[/snapback] Most people are just being supportive of the team and the possibilities. That's usually what fans do. As stated none of us know what is to come of this move. The Koolaid comments have always struck me as a convenient remark when you don't have anything real to say or to backup what you are saying.
obie_wan Posted January 6, 2006 Posted January 6, 2006 Couple of things, but first enjoyed reading this post. #1) Not so sure Levy lost his team. Think there were several factors involved, but thats another argument. Even if he did, is it not general wisdom that 90% of coached outlive thier usefulness after about 7 or 8 years with the same squad? If so, Marvs got a whole new cast of characters, from the front office on and all the way through the players and coaches that should be able to drink the Levy kool aid without it being old or repitious. #2)In looking at this thing half full instead of half empty, I would say Bill Polian has been the most succseesful front office guy(Pioliand Belichek excluded) in the NFL for the 20 yrs. Well, Marv worked with Bill three differant places, and worked closely with him by all accounts. Maybe, just maybe, Marv can put those experiences to good use . #3) Go Bills!!!!!!!!!!! 556958[/snapback] I'd be happier if Polian was the decision maker
obie_wan Posted January 6, 2006 Posted January 6, 2006 Levy did not lose his team as head coach. We lost our talent due to poorly planned contracts and not addressing the O-line in the draft after Ruben. 556972[/snapback] and Marv takes no blame for any of this even though he was VP of Football Operations and Butler reported to him. why is everyone convinced Marv will fix the OL when he didn't do it when he was here the first time?
34-78-83 Posted January 6, 2006 Posted January 6, 2006 and Marv takes no blame for any of this even though he was VP of Football Operations and Butler reported to him. why is everyone convinced Marv will fix the OL when he didn't do it when he was here the first time? 557001[/snapback] The response was about whether or not Levy lost his team (ie Players) but I wouldn't expect your reading comprehension to be any better than it has been in the past.
SilverNRed Posted January 6, 2006 Posted January 6, 2006 All we know for sure about the future is that we're going to find out that everything that Jerry Sullivan is saying now is going to turn out to be wrong. How do we know? Because that's what always happens.
East Brady Posted January 6, 2006 Posted January 6, 2006 Most people are just being supportive of the team and the possibilities. That's usually what fans do. As stated none of us know what is to come of this move. The Koolaid comments have always struck me as a convenient remark when you don't have anything real to say or to backup what you are saying. 556989[/snapback] Well good luck with the glorified motivational speaker that we just hired......you think he can take the stress....reorganize the team, upgrade the scouting dept.,and deal with the crazy old nut that just hired him? Hey maybe he can call his old buddy Polian for some guidance about who we should draft considering the state of the scouting dept these days....maybe 3 years from now the scouting dept. will be fixed and marvy will still be around.....sorry but I ain't drink'n the metimucil just yet, but if you want to, don't let me stop you from living in the past..... I'm not sure what ralphy thinks he's selling, but I'm not buying before a little test drive! Metimucil for everyone! Thats right we don't know what the future holds. koolaid=blind loyalty........ cheer on my friend.....
34-78-83 Posted January 6, 2006 Posted January 6, 2006 Well good luck with the glorified motivational speaker that we just hired......you think he can take the stress....reorganize the team, upgrade the scouting dept.,and deal with the crazy old nut that just hired him? Hey maybe he can call his old buddy Polian for some guidance about who we should draft considering the state of the scouting dept these days....maybe 3 years from now the scouting dept. will be fixed and marvy will still be around.....sorry but I ain't drink'n the metimucil just yet, but if you want to, don't let me stop you from living in the past..... I'm not sure what ralphy thinks he's selling, but I'm not buying before a little test drive! Metimucil for everyone! Thats right we don't know what the future holds. koolaid=blind loyalty........ cheer on my friend..... 557054[/snapback] The best GM's in most successful corporations are very motivational and good at delegating and counting on their staff for results. I never drink the stuff you speak of, I just go with the facts at hand. I am not predicting success , nor failure with this move. Only trying to squash mass generalizations and trying to point out that it's just as easy to be a skeptic as it is having a positive outlook. Koolaid, again, is just a crutch term to me.
obie_wan Posted January 6, 2006 Posted January 6, 2006 The response was about whether or not Levy lost his team (ie Players) but I wouldn't expect your reading comprehension to be any better than it has been in the past. 557006[/snapback] yeah I just made up that part of the post about not addressing the OL- which has been a continuing problem since the early 90's
GG Posted January 6, 2006 Posted January 6, 2006 Football is football. You just draft a few good linemen and a quarterback and you're going to be in the playoffs? Cool. Ummmm... Teach? Does it matter which linemen? I mean, could it be hockey linemen? Could it be the linemen for the county? Do you think perhaps it would help to know something about these linemen which makes them good? 556925[/snapback] I'm a little puzzled about this. Are you saying that a man who's been in football for the last 40 years wouldn't be able to evaulate talent? Couldn't you make a case that as a former coach, Levy could have a better handle on a player's NFL potential performance than a former scout? Forget caponomics, contract negotiations and all other garbage discussed yesterday. Are you hinting that if Modrak brings forth a list of prospects, Levy would not have the capacity to select the right guy?
34-78-83 Posted January 6, 2006 Posted January 6, 2006 yeah I just made up that part of the post about not addressing the OL- which has been a continuing problem since the early 90's 557091[/snapback] Which I have posted myself. Again my response was about W H E T H E R...O R...N O T...L E V Y...L O S T...T H E...T E A M at the end of his tenure. Christ how friggin dense can one possibly be?
Kelly the Dog Posted January 6, 2006 Posted January 6, 2006 I'm a little puzzled about this. Are you saying that a man who's been in football for the last 40 years wouldn't be able to evaulate talent? Couldn't you make a case that as a former coach, Levy could have a better handle on a player's NFL potential performance than a former scout? Forget caponomics, contract negotiations and all other garbage discussed yesterday. Are you hinting that if Modrak brings forth a list of prospects, Levy would not have the capacity to select the right guy? 557114[/snapback] I am not totally against Marv. I do have tremendous respect for him. I think he is very sharp for an 80 year old. My only concern is too many cooks (two of them very old and admittedly out of touch the last 5 and 8 years respectively), and the realities of the NFL 2006 and how money is a much bigger factor than when Marv was coach. Frankly, I see Marv as extremely sharp for an 80 year old and not quite so sharp for an NFL GM. The answer to your question, however, is yes, I think Marv can make some good decisions on player talent. Part of TD's problem is that he compiled some talented players but I'm not sure how many of them were "winners". Marv may have that innate ability to decide if a player is a winner or not. That may be one of his true values here. I am not sure, however, how a GM out of the league for eight years and never handling this job is going to decide on whether or not to sign Chris DeMulling or Marco Rivera or Bennie Anderson or Floyd Womack if he doesn't want to deal with the salary cap, with an 87 year old lovable madman wanting to watch tape on the guys, with no real pro personell guy yet, and with the smartest and most in tune guy in the front office living in Florida and out on the road and not wanting to spend much time in Buffalo, let alone in the office.
Sound_n_Fury Posted January 6, 2006 Posted January 6, 2006 Frankly, I see Marv as extremely sharp for an 80 year old and not quite so sharp for an NFL GM. 557154[/snapback] Based on the performance of 80% of the other GMs in the league today, how sharp would you say they are? (and no, I'm not just thinking of Matt Millen!). I am not sure, however, how a GM out of the league for eight years and never handling this job is going to decide on whether or not to sign Chris DeMulling or Marco Rivera or Bennie Anderson or Floyd Womack if he doesn't want to deal with the salary cap 557154[/snapback] The same way you always have...look at film, interview the player intensely to get a feel for how they're wired, and then talk to all your contacts around the league to get other opinions. The more I think about it, I believe ML's coaching experience will help him a great deal in evaluating players. He knows what game day temperament is all about and won't just focus on the measurables, which seems to have been TDs emphasis having never played or coached the game.
JoeF Posted January 6, 2006 Posted January 6, 2006 SECURITY!!!Take this man's keyboard!!!!! 556833[/snapback] Oh my God! Donahoe's back in Western PA and he's holding Simon and family hostage. Someone local call the SWAT Team....TD must be packing serious heat otherwise Simon would have already overpowered the gutless whimpy creep.
bills_fan Posted January 6, 2006 Posted January 6, 2006 with no real pro personell guy yet Ahhh, and there be the rub. That will be the move yet-to-be-announced. I think Guy is gone and we will hire a young, rising star type from another organization. That man, who I'm very confident that Polian will recommend as a favor to Marv, will be the person who does the real work here, on the pro side. He'll present Marv with a list of candiates for say LG. Marv will evaluate them, meet with them and make a decision, with input from this-yet-to-be-named pro personnel director, Modrak, Wilson etc. Ultimately, I think its Levy's call, but he'll build a consensus. He'll get everyone on the same page, do it with class and dignity, two things sorely lacking at OBD if Nick in England's description of Pats weekend was accurate, and we'll move forward. This move will work out fabulously for the Bills. Marv knows his limitations and will work within them. He will build a vision for the team, a way of doing things that was missing with TD. The Bills are onm the rise and I really couldn't be happier about this move.
Kelly the Dog Posted January 6, 2006 Posted January 6, 2006 Based on the performance of 80% of the other GMs in the league today, how sharp would you say they are? (and no, I'm not just thinking of Matt Millen!). The same way you always have...look at film, interview the player intensely to get a feel for how they're wired, and then talk to all your contacts around the league to get other opinions. The more I think about it, I believe ML's coaching experience will help him a great deal in evaluating players. He knows what game day temperament is all about and won't just focus on the measurables, which seems to have been TDs emphasis having never played or coached the game. 557174[/snapback] Sorry, TD was in the NFL and directly evaluating players in the NFL longer than Marv has been. And there seems to be zero evidence of TD relying on measurables. He's chosen big guys, small guys, players without measurables and players with, old guys, young guys, healthy guys, injured guys. That is totally baseless criticism.
Sound_n_Fury Posted January 6, 2006 Posted January 6, 2006 Sorry, TD was in the NFL and directly evaluating players in the NFL longer than Marv has been. 557229[/snapback] As a coach, ML evaluated players every day. He did it on the field, not by reading a scouting report. That's 40 years of experience at all levels of competition. And there seems to be zero evidence of TD relying on measurables. He's chosen big guys, small guys, players without measurables and players with, old guys, young guys, healthy guys, injured guys. That is totally baseless criticism. 557229[/snapback] He's chosen guys with measurables (speed, size, college rep, and even "buzz" like WM), but not intangibles like character and will to win. And where were the small school gems the Bills used to find? TD liked guys from big name college programs and didn't seem interested in looking too far below that level for the London Fletcher-type of guys who live to play NFL football. IMO, TD was a draft wonk, not unlike Mel Kiper...he could paint you a pretty picture of a guy based on a scouting report, but he never could get to the heart of what makes one player a winner over another (hint: it's more than size and speed). Polian can spot that quality (as well as Belichick)...I tend to think ML will be better than average at it as well.
Kelly the Dog Posted January 6, 2006 Posted January 6, 2006 He's chosen guys with measurables (speed, size, college rep, and even "buzz" like WM), but not intangibles like character and will to win. And where were the small school gems the Bills used to find? TD liked guys from big name college programs and didn't seem interested in looking too far below that level for the London Fletcher-type of guys who live to play NFL football. IMO, TD was a draft wonk, not unlike Mel Kiper...he could paint you a pretty picture of a guy based on a scouting report, but he never could get to the heart of what makes one player a winner over another (hint: it's more than size and speed). Polian can spot that quality (as well as Belichick)...I tend to think ML will be better than average at it as well. 557260[/snapback] Complete nonsense. TD signed London Fletcher, remember? He has chosen guys from big programs and small schools like Terrence McGee. He's chosen undersized playmakers like Josh Reed, raw talent from medium sized schools like JP Losman, players that were winners their entire career, pure talent from big schools like Lee Evans, over acheivers like Schobel from TCU, undersized playmakers like Travis Henry from big schools, polished big name players with measurables like Nate Clements, unwashed great athletes like Coy Wire from Stanford. He's been all over the board. He just made some mistakes on the talent or the heart or the intangibles on the players. Again, I think he made some major mistakes and I am not unhappy he was fired. He didn't win. But this is more baseless criticism, IMO.
JoeFerguson Posted January 6, 2006 Posted January 6, 2006 I have been meaning to start my own thread with a similar title, but I think this title sums up what I'm thinking. Nobody knows what is going to happen in sports. It is a crap shoot. Everybody on this board (including myself) has absolutely no credibility. Why do we not have credibility? Because we spend way too much time arguing ON AN INTERNET MESSAGE BOARD. If your post count per day is in the double digits then you really have lost your credibility. I don't care how smart you think you are, your intelligence is only relative to the rest of us bozos who FREQUENT AN INTERNET MESSAGE BOARD. You're not discussing quantum physics, you're talking about football. Do you think real men that matter actually would waste this much time on the internet? Do you think Marv comes to the Stadium Wall everyday to see what everyone thinks about his new haircut? He has better things to do! I hear all these terms around here like "retard rollercoaster" and "drinking the Kool-Aid" that have such condescending connotations. Whoever coined these terms would never classify themselves as a member of the "retard rollercoaster", but without you there would be no rollercoaster. Everybody who posts on this forum is an idiot, EVEN ME! Every second I spend on Two Bills Drive is a second I know I should have spent doing something else, something more productive. We all are addicts. We're addicted to the Bills, to football, and to arguing about absolutely pointless topics. Marv is 80, so what? How can you say that he's not going to do a good job. You have no idea. You won't know until this time next year. So lighten up, enjoy the euphoria of the hiring of a Hall of Famer, and PASS THE DAMN KOOL-AID!!!!!!!!!!! GO BILLS.
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