Kelly the Dog Posted January 5, 2006 Author Posted January 5, 2006 think positively - it'll make you feel better. 554995[/snapback] Did you just really type that?
obie_wan Posted January 5, 2006 Posted January 5, 2006 I hate to disagree with you Lori, but there is perhaps no better smashmouth organization in the NFL than the Pittsburgh Steelers, and the Steelers have used Antwaan Randle-El quite effectively for a few years now. I think even smashmouth organizations need playmakers, and I think Donahoe legitimately saw Parrish as being that sort of playmaker. And with Reed's contract up after this year, and with the possibility of Moulds being a cap casualty this year, he probably saw Parrish is filling a legitimate hole - and being someone we could pair with Evans. JDG 554726[/snapback] Troy Edwards, another midget WR, is a better comparison to PArrish. The last #1 pick made by Teflon Tom for Pittsburgh. Edwards crashed and burned and was the final nail in Teflon's coffin. Hopefully Roscoe performs better than Edwards
KOKBILLS Posted January 5, 2006 Posted January 5, 2006 Man, I never realized that you're one bitter dude. IMO, this is where Marv adds value to this organization at THIS point in time: **** "I think Marv can bring a vision to the organization that quite frankly has been lacking pretty much since he left as coach," said Steve Christie, the former Bills kicker who now works for Canadian television. "Under the previous regime, it was like a weather vane at times. You'd listen to the press conferences with the general manager and the coaches and you had no idea what direction the team was headed. I think Marv is the kind of guy who can determine what the direction should be and get everyone pointed that way." * * * * Rebuilding the Bills, however, wasn't so easy. Levy took over a team that had lost 28 of 32 games over two seasons. "Marv brought sunlight to a very dark situation when he came," remembered Polian. "He's an optimistic person. When outside forces make it seem like Armageddon, he's liable to drop a one-liner in the most serious discussion. He keeps everyone loose. You enjoy coming to work." Marv took a cautious approach with his new team. "What the team needed was realism," he said. "This was a weary football team, beaten down mentally by losing. I never mentioned the word 'win.' I talked about performance." "Marv has respect for everyone's personality," said veteran nose tackle Fred Smerlas. "He doesn't belittle people. He lets them be themselves. It's a whole new world." * * * * Bill Polian HOF intro: It is said that leadership is that unique quality which enables special people to stand up and pull the rest of us over the horizon. By that or any other definition, Marv Levy is one of the greatest leaders this game has ever known. **** Right now, the Bills need leadership, direction and a sense of purpose where everone is on board and working toward a common goal. Marv can bring that. For sure it will be up to Modrak to find the right players and Jim Overdorf to handle the contract matters, but I'm willing to bet that Marv can get the team moving in the right direction and lay the groundwork for hiring a more permanent GM maybe in a year or so. 555029[/snapback] Great Post! The first time I have actually had any positive thoughts about this mess was after reading this... I fully agree that the Leadership, on and off the Field, has been sorely lacking in Buffalo for years now...And if in fact Marv can bring only good Leadership it will be a step in the right direction... I still think the Bills need a new HC...but I have to admit this Post gave me just a sliver of...gulp...optimism...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted January 5, 2006 Posted January 5, 2006 I think Marv's role will and should likely be a figurehead and a communicator. I fear for the franchise if he's in charge of actual drafting.
Buftex Posted January 5, 2006 Posted January 5, 2006 walt corey? you mean the guy whose defense improved greatly between 1991 and 1992 and whose defense came close to setting a league record for turnovers in 1993? the guy who marv fired without a problem after the 1994 season? 554479[/snapback] Dave, you lost me here...did the defense really improve greatly between 1991 and 1992? I think the world of Marv, but I always thought that Walt Corey was his biggest mistake...that defense had some great individual players who made great plays, but, IMO, never played well as a unit. In the end, they were underachieving. Did Walt Corey ever make a half-time adjustment that worked?
obie_wan Posted January 5, 2006 Posted January 5, 2006 did you ever think of giving levy a chance before condeming him? what has he ever done to suggest that he's not an at least solid-to-good administrator? 554995[/snapback] The fact that he kept Mullarkey as part of this fresh start could be argued to be his first mistake as Administrator.
Scraps Posted January 5, 2006 Posted January 5, 2006 And how many times did Ralph Wilson hire Jim Kelly as OC/QB coach, Tasker for ST, Kent Hull for OL, Phil Hansen for DL? I thought you'd know the difference between fan cackles and what Wilson needs for his organization. I still don't see anything on Levy's resume that would disqualify him from being a good GM. 555012[/snapback] Anyone know of any examples where coaches have become GM's and have been successful at scouting, contract negotiations, cap management and building champions? I don't see anything that disqualifies him. I also don't see anything that tells me he is highly qualified for the job.
kasper13 Posted January 5, 2006 Posted January 5, 2006 Marv Levy can't possibly do any worse than than TD did. The Bills have now gone 6 straight seasons without a playoff game. 10 straight seasons without a playoff win. The last 5 were of TD's doing. Bad drafts, bad trades, bad coaching hires, bad free agent signings and bad decisions on what players not to keep. How the hell can Marv do any worse? Give the old SOB a chance. People are now so used to the Bills losing that everything done or not done is a total disaster before it even starts.
Scraps Posted January 5, 2006 Posted January 5, 2006 Marv Levy can't possibly do any worse than than TD did. The Bills have now gone 6 straight seasons without a playoff game. 10 straight seasons without a playoff win. The last 5 were of TD's doing. Bad drafts, bad trades, bad coaching hires, bad free agent signings and bad decisions on what players not to keep. How the hell can Marv do any worse? Give the old SOB a chance. People are now so used to the Bills losing that everything done or not done is a total disaster before it even starts. 555087[/snapback] Sure he can do worse. I'd rather have TD than Matt Millen.
JDG Posted January 5, 2006 Posted January 5, 2006 And how many times did Ralph Wilson hire Jim Kelly as OC/QB coach, Tasker for ST, Kent Hull for OL, Phil Hansen for DL? I don't see why the above is at all relevant. For one, many of the above things are just plain impossible. Secondly, I don't think that Buffalo has ever quite had an angry mob on its hands like it did after this season. I thought you'd know the difference between fan cackles and what Wilson needs for his organization. I still don't see anything on Levy's resume that would disqualify him from being a good GM. 555012[/snapback] Well, there's nothing on my resume that would disqualify me from being a good GM either. There's also scant little on my resume that suggests that I am the best candidate for the job. Marv Levy has scant experience in managing a salary cap and dealing with free agency. Moreover, Marv has not been developing these skills for the past eight years. He has not spent the past eight years in any sort of position where he was evaluating either pro personnel nor college personnel for the draft. He has not spent the past eight years in any sort of position where he was negotiating contracts, structuring contracts, nor learning about any of the developments in contract writing and structuring that have occurred in the NFL over the past ten years. He does not arrive in this organization with a strong knowledge of the state of pro personnel on this team, nor around the League in this day. Thus, to me his hiring is worse that hiring some unknown with no prior GM experience. At least an "unknown" would have some current prior Front Office Experience. But Marv's been a broadcaster for the last however-many years. And how have things turned out for the last team that hired a broadcaster as a GM? In short, I believe that in hiring our next GM the question should have been: 1) Which GM candidate will build a team that will produce the most wins over the five years? I find it very difficult to believe that Marv Levy is the obvious answer to that question from a football standpoint. If Marv Levy had an identical resume, only with the Pittsburgh Steelers from 1986-1997, would he have even gotten an interview? If Marv Levy had not been a successful Head Coach under Bill Polian, knowing that Coaching has notable differences from GM'ing, would he have even gotten an interview? It seems clear to me that he was not brought in for football reasons, he was brought in because he is a popular link to the team's "Golden Age" past. As such, I unfortunately suspect that Ralph Wilson asked the following questions instead of the above question: 1) Which GM candidate will create the most buzz among our disillusioned fan base? 2) Which GM candidate will support me in intra-organization political battles? and even: 3) Which GM candidate will not want to chose his own HC, but will instead let me avoid firing one of the lowest-paid NFL coaches with 3 years left on his contract? Indeed, that last question points to what is further adding to my despair - namely that the moves Marv seems to be making even before he officially takes the position already seem to be the wrong ones. For one, he has already agreed to retain Mike Mularkey - whom as you know, I believe has a very strong case against him. Secondly, he appears to be facilitating a two-faced owner who tells us point-blank at 2:30 in the afternoon that he doesn't pick Asst. Coaches, the HC picks Asst. Coaches, and that we can all, quote, "go home" - and then trots back out at 5:15 the same afternoon to announce that his HC is keeping his job after having fired lots of his Assts. per his demands. Finally, I see no hallmarks of a winning organization being built here, as I noted in a previous post. I see cosmetic brushes being applied to the top of an organization that is only increasing its disfunctionality. I don't think that the new-look Bills organization we see today is disqualified from being successful - but I find it impossible at this point to bet on them being successful in the near future. JDG - Who is not happy about being so unhappy.....
JDG Posted January 5, 2006 Posted January 5, 2006 Marv Levy can't possibly do any worse than than TD did. The Bills have now gone 6 straight seasons without a playoff game. 10 straight seasons without a playoff win. The last 5 were of TD's doing. Bad drafts, bad trades, bad coaching hires, bad free agent signings and bad decisions on what players not to keep. How the hell can Marv do any worse? Give the old SOB a chance. People are now so used to the Bills losing that everything done or not done is a total disaster before it even starts. 555087[/snapback] But the standard is *NOT* simply "not doing any worse". We all think that 6 season with the playoffs sucks. If Marv is the same as TD, and 5 years from now it is 11 years without the playoffs - then this franchise has become the Arizona Cardinals. And unlike the Cardinals which play in a high-growth area, fan disillusionment with a perennially losing product makes it a very long-shot that the Bills stay in shrinking WNY. The Bills simply *have* to be competitive in order to be the Bills. Those are the stakes. You can't keep bouncing from year-to-year cosmetic brushes to get the fans excited about the upcoming season without an underlying structure for longterm success, or eventually the whole house of cards will collapse on us. JDG
In space no one can hear Posted January 5, 2006 Posted January 5, 2006 Man, I never realized that you're one bitter dude. IMO, this is where Marv adds value to this organization at THIS point in time: **** "I think Marv can bring a vision to the organization that quite frankly has been lacking pretty much since he left as coach," said Steve Christie, the former Bills kicker who now works for Canadian television. "Under the previous regime, it was like a weather vane at times. You'd listen to the press conferences with the general manager and the coaches and you had no idea what direction the team was headed. I think Marv is the kind of guy who can determine what the direction should be and get everyone pointed that way." * * * * Rebuilding the Bills, however, wasn't so easy. Levy took over a team that had lost 28 of 32 games over two seasons. "Marv brought sunlight to a very dark situation when he came," remembered Polian. "He's an optimistic person. When outside forces make it seem like Armageddon, he's liable to drop a one-liner in the most serious discussion. He keeps everyone loose. You enjoy coming to work." Marv took a cautious approach with his new team. "What the team needed was realism," he said. "This was a weary football team, beaten down mentally by losing. I never mentioned the word 'win.' I talked about performance." "Marv has respect for everyone's personality," said veteran nose tackle Fred Smerlas. "He doesn't belittle people. He lets them be themselves. It's a whole new world." * * * * Bill Polian HOF intro: It is said that leadership is that unique quality which enables special people to stand up and pull the rest of us over the horizon. By that or any other definition, Marv Levy is one of the greatest leaders this game has ever known. **** Right now, the Bills need leadership, direction and a sense of purpose where everyone is on board and working toward a common goal. Marv can bring that. For sure it will be up to Modrak to find the right players and Jim Overdorf to handle the contract matters, but I'm willing to bet that Marv can get the team moving in the right direction and lay the groundwork for hiring a more permanent GM maybe in a year or so. 555029[/snapback] Thanks for your excellent post!! For some reason Levy's skills have been underestimated and I like the fact that he seems so determined to prove all of these naysayers wrong...
Sound_n_Fury Posted January 5, 2006 Posted January 5, 2006 Secondly, I don't think that Buffalo has ever quite had an angry mob on its hands like it did after this season...... 555198[/snapback] Wow. This is nothing compared to... (1) Wade Phillips' last year (2) The Hank Bullough era (3) The Kay Stephenson era (4) The Jim Ringo era .........
JoeF Posted January 5, 2006 Posted January 5, 2006 Kelly--a bit off topic---but you should sue Jerry Sullivan...he wrote today's column based on your initial post....Either that or you should demand a wider audience...We're not worthy...
Kelly the Dog Posted January 5, 2006 Author Posted January 5, 2006 Kelly--a bit off topic---but you should sue Jerry Sullivan...he wrote today's column based on your initial post....Either that or you should demand a wider audience...We're not worthy... 555245[/snapback] Damn. I was feeling pretty good about my life until I was compared to Jerry Sullivan.
Sound_n_Fury Posted January 5, 2006 Posted January 5, 2006 Kelly--a bit off topic---but you should sue Jerry Sullivan...he wrote today's column based on your initial post....Either that or you should demand a wider audience...We're not worthy... 555245[/snapback] Kelly = JS??? (just kidding...I'd never insult anyone on TSW that badly)
JoeF Posted January 5, 2006 Posted January 5, 2006 Damn. I was feeling pretty good about my life until I was compared to Jerry Sullivan. 555252[/snapback] See you're looking at this the wrong way...you own him now...the power of the force is with you. Use it wisely...
dave mcbride Posted January 5, 2006 Posted January 5, 2006 Did Walt Corey ever make a half-time adjustment that worked? 555054[/snapback] Houston. January 1993.
dave mcbride Posted January 5, 2006 Posted January 5, 2006 I don't see why the above is at all relevant. For one, many of the above things are just plain impossible. Secondly, I don't think that Buffalo has ever quite had an angry mob on its hands like it did after this season.Well, there's nothing on my resume that would disqualify me from being a good GM either. There's also scant little on my resume that suggests that I am the best candidate for the job. Marv Levy has scant experience in managing a salary cap and dealing with free agency. Moreover, Marv has not been developing these skills for the past eight years. He has not spent the past eight years in any sort of position where he was evaluating either pro personnel nor college personnel for the draft. He has not spent the past eight years in any sort of position where he was negotiating contracts, structuring contracts, nor learning about any of the developments in contract writing and structuring that have occurred in the NFL over the past ten years. He does not arrive in this organization with a strong knowledge of the state of pro personnel on this team, nor around the League in this day. Thus, to me his hiring is worse that hiring some unknown with no prior GM experience. At least an "unknown" would have some current prior Front Office Experience. But Marv's been a broadcaster for the last however-many years. And how have things turned out for the last team that hired a broadcaster as a GM? In short, I believe that in hiring our next GM the question should have been: 1) Which GM candidate will build a team that will produce the most wins over the five years? I find it very difficult to believe that Marv Levy is the obvious answer to that question from a football standpoint. If Marv Levy had an identical resume, only with the Pittsburgh Steelers from 1986-1997, would he have even gotten an interview? If Marv Levy had not been a successful Head Coach under Bill Polian, knowing that Coaching has notable differences from GM'ing, would he have even gotten an interview? It seems clear to me that he was not brought in for football reasons, he was brought in because he is a popular link to the team's "Golden Age" past. As such, I unfortunately suspect that Ralph Wilson asked the following questions instead of the above question: 1) Which GM candidate will create the most buzz among our disillusioned fan base? 2) Which GM candidate will support me in intra-organization political battles? and even: 3) Which GM candidate will not want to chose his own HC, but will instead let me avoid firing one of the lowest-paid NFL coaches with 3 years left on his contract? Indeed, that last question points to what is further adding to my despair - namely that the moves Marv seems to be making even before he officially takes the position already seem to be the wrong ones. For one, he has already agreed to retain Mike Mularkey - whom as you know, I believe has a very strong case against him. Secondly, he appears to be facilitating a two-faced owner who tells us point-blank at 2:30 in the afternoon that he doesn't pick Asst. Coaches, the HC picks Asst. Coaches, and that we can all, quote, "go home" - and then trots back out at 5:15 the same afternoon to announce that his HC is keeping his job after having fired lots of his Assts. per his demands. Finally, I see no hallmarks of a winning organization being built here, as I noted in a previous post. I see cosmetic brushes being applied to the top of an organization that is only increasing its disfunctionality. I don't think that the new-look Bills organization we see today is disqualified from being successful - but I find it impossible at this point to bet on them being successful in the near future. JDG - Who is not happy about being so unhappy..... 555198[/snapback] like i said in another post, make these charges when you have some evidence and actual results to base them on. don't worry -- be happy!
dave mcbride Posted January 5, 2006 Posted January 5, 2006 Did you just really type that? 555034[/snapback] ah, but you see, my negativity was directed to events that had already occurred or were in the process of occurring. i have nothing to be negative about regarding this change, since there is no evidence to be negative. my most negative post (from a couple of weeks ago), in which i said the bills were a no-talent team, was based on the fact that they had a terrible record and were mired in the bottom of every defensive and offensive statistical category.
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