Kelly the Dog Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 You would like to believe this about the 05-06 Sabres, but it never came out until after he was released, how badly some players wanted Satan off the team at any cost, so you never really know. 550653[/snapback] True, but there have been a lot of stories in the news recently about how the current team all seems to like each other legitimately. And that winning makes everything easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34-78-83 Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 It's emarassing at how this team and these coaches have either directly or indirectly laid the blame of this pitiful season on JP's lap. 550440[/snapback] They haven't. It's absolutely amazing to me that a large group of atleast somewhat intelligent people can come together a go on about a such general reach of a statement made by the media when so much evidence (yes, visual evidence that you can see in each game of team comradery) says this is not so. Sure JP might be a cocky guy, but he is surely a good teammate. To boot, this rumor was first heard from the likes of Pro football talk if you trace it back. Not to sound like TD here but it's almost embarrasing to think that all of you would get so involved in what is utter nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBuffaloDisease Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 Players generally want to play with the guy who is "ready" to win, especially veteran players. But when the guy who is allegedly "ready to win" proves to be little better, if better at all, than the guy who ISN'T allegedly "ready," that's when the coach needs to step in and make the decision to go with the "not ready" guy so as to build for the future. Doing the opposite shows a desperate attempt at trying to save a tenuous job situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 Players generally want to play with the guy who is "ready" to win, especially veteran players. But when the guy who is allegedly "ready to win" proves to be little better, if better at all, than the guy who ISN'T allegedly "ready," that's when the coach needs to step in and make the decision to go with the "not ready" guy so as to build for the future. Doing the opposite shows a desperate attempt at trying to save a tenuous job situation. 550682[/snapback] That's precisely correct and exactly what is happening, IMO. Which is why MM probably should be fired. He had no business sticking with Holcomb after the #2 or #3 or#4 INT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBuffaloDisease Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 That's precisely correct and exactly what is happening, IMO. Which is why MM probably should be fired. He had no business sticking with Holcomb after the #2 or #3 or#4 INT. I totally agree with you here. And hearing that JP WANTED to play makes me even further want to see MM gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 That quote was what started a lot of this, and I already read it this morning. This is what I was referring to earlier. But again. Read what the players actually said. "He is not ready". That doesn't mean they don't like his attitude one iota. That doesn't mean they hate him. That doesn't mean they have totally lost faith in him. It means nothing more whatsoever than we already knew, and always knew, as soon as we traded for KH, through mini-camp, through pre-season, through the first four games, through the whole season. That Kelly Holcomb is a more accomplished and game ready quarterback than JP Losman is. What is so astounding about that? 550664[/snapback] Why are you even bothering? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grant Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 The fact that we're having this discussion isn't a plus for Losman. And we're not talking about one article or one instance. We've heard some negative rumblings about Losman's attitude before the draft, then after he was drafted from some ex-team mates, and last year with the leg incident and then this year with Moulds' unhappiness and some other anonymous sources citing discontent with Losman. I don't think sports writers are just making this up. I don't think everyone is misunderstanding one another. And I don't think the comments are as innocent as Kelly the Dog is portraying them as. Pro athletes are taught every year not to ever publicly reveal what they're really thinking. You have to read between the lines. I can't believe that when players are saying that "no one thinks Losman is ready" that they mean it in an "aw, shucks" kind of way. Otherwise it would have been phrased different - more positively or optimistically. But really, we can't really know what's going on. Everyone treats the NFL and especially this organization like it's more important than it is. It's a football team. A football team. A football team. I guess we'll find out sooner or later whether or not Losman's "cockiness" is more like Jim Kelly or Jim McMahon, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBuffaloDisease Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 The fact that we're having this discussion isn't a plus for Losman. It's not a plus for ANYONE. On one had you have a cocky 24 year old newbie. OTOH you have veterans with sensitive feelings. Grow up, do your job, and win! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachChuckDickerson Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 It's not a plus for ANYONE. On one had you have a cocky 24 year old newbie. OTOH you have veterans with sensitive feelings. Grow up, do your job, and win! 550835[/snapback] You can't force team chemistry, you either have it or you don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted January 4, 2006 Author Share Posted January 4, 2006 I asked Leo Roth about this topic on his WHAM show, and he said he knows of no widespread dislike of J.P. Okay, so who rigt here? Jerry Sullivan or Leo Roth? PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djh Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 Veterans cared more about their next $$$ contract than this football team. If you're a team player, rally around the young QB. These veterans that got their egos hurt cause the QB didn't compete for his job are......LOSERS!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djh Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 If Vincent broke his leg on purpose than he should have been suspended by the team. If MM let him get away with that, then it's no wonder the Bills are they way they are. This all goes back to Mullarkey. If JP is being a dork, MM should sit him down and set him straight. If his teamates are giving him crap, MM should have nipped it in the bud. Bad coach...very bad coach. PTR 550363[/snapback] FACT.....VINCENT WENT AFTER J.P. ON PURPOSE!!! I'm sure he didn't mean to break his leg. FACT.....J.P. urged the coaches not to discipline Vincent. They were rumored to cut Vincent last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tux of Borg Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 Two things that had to happen for us to have a successful 2005 season. 1) The defense had to continue to play at a championship level. 2) Willis McGahee had to carry the offense. Neither happened. As for Bledsoe, he can have the starting QB job back when he can beat Pittsburgh's 3rd string. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RkFast Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 Why are you even bothering? 550711[/snapback] Because its called a debate and discussion of different ideas and expression of opinions. Ya know...the whole reason why we have these discussion boards in the first place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RkFast Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 The fact that we're having this discussion isn't a plus for Losman. And we're not talking about one article or one instance. We've heard some negative rumblings about Losman's attitude before the draft, then after he was drafted from some ex-team mates, and last year with the leg incident and then this year with Moulds' unhappiness and some other anonymous sources citing discontent with Losman. I don't think sports writers are just making this up. I don't think everyone is misunderstanding one another. And I don't think the comments are as innocent as Kelly the Dog is portraying them as. Pro athletes are taught every year not to ever publicly reveal what they're really thinking. You have to read between the lines. I can't believe that when players are saying that "no one thinks Losman is ready" that they mean it in an "aw, shucks" kind of way. Otherwise it would have been phrased different - more positively or optimistically. But really, we can't really know what's going on. Everyone treats the NFL and especially this organization like it's more important than it is. It's a football team. A football team. A football team. I guess we'll find out sooner or later whether or not Losman's "cockiness" is more like Jim Kelly or Jim McMahon, though. 550821[/snapback] THANK YOU, Amazing Grant! This is my point, exactly. I give you the NY Giants of last year as an example. They brought Manning in, started him mid-year rather abruptly, pretty much changing the teams mode from attempting to contend with Kurt Warner to rebuilding with Manning. Not a word was said by anyone on the team about the move, at pleast not publicly. It was accepted that the team was heading in a different direction to rebuild now and win later and everyone was on board with that. Even when Manning's play was less than good, those first few games of his, they were all on board with the team's goals. Youre not seeing that with the Bills. There is talk.."rumblings"....that everyone is NOT on board with "the plan". Whatever the reason for that, the fact that the entire team isnt working towards the same goal is very, very troubling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevewin Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 The fact that we're having this discussion isn't a plus for Losman. And we're not talking about one article or one instance. We've heard some negative rumblings about Losman's attitude before the draft, then after he was drafted from some ex-team mates, and last year with the leg incident and then this year with Moulds' unhappiness and some other anonymous sources citing discontent with Losman. I don't think sports writers are just making this up. I don't think everyone is misunderstanding one another. And I don't think the comments are as innocent as Kelly the Dog is portraying them as. Pro athletes are taught every year not to ever publicly reveal what they're really thinking. You have to read between the lines. I can't believe that when players are saying that "no one thinks Losman is ready" that they mean it in an "aw, shucks" kind of way. Otherwise it would have been phrased different - more positively or optimistically. But really, we can't really know what's going on. Everyone treats the NFL and especially this organization like it's more important than it is. It's a football team. A football team. A football team. I guess we'll find out sooner or later whether or not Losman's "cockiness" is more like Jim Kelly or Jim McMahon, though. 550821[/snapback] I also agree with most of this - players hardly ever trash teammates publicly, when they do it becomes a circus (see TO). Beat writers won't write off the record comments, and also don't want to bite the hands that feed them (quotes) and jeapordize their access to information. Usually these things are kept "in the family" - the fact that it has come up at all publicly actually leads me to believe that it is worse than it appears, not better. I also think it is a bit ridiculous to write off every journalist who writes something negative about JP as a worthless hack, and every player who implies anything negative about him as a worthless whiny jerk. The other thing that bothers me is the difference between being "cocky" and just not mature and/or lacking character. Everybody wants to talk about reports of how hard JP worked in the offseason - what about the year before that? If preparation/character is such an ingrained part of his charcter then why did MM throw him in the NE game to "send him a message", why (allegedly) did TV give him a shot in practice to "send him a message", why the disparaging "especially JP" comment from Drew (who IMO overall was very classy when he left and tried very hard to not say anything inflammatory). Why are there quotes from veterans once the season started talking about the "night and day" difference between what he knew at the start of the season even from THIS Spring's mini-camp(!). WTF was he doing for the last YEAR before all the warm fuzzy reports of him finally digging in and watching lots of film this summer? It's great if he's had a change of heart and is now taking things more seriously now - but don't tell me that any report of him not preparing himself properly (in say a draft report) are lies and complete BS just because he finally watched some film this summer (with possibly a proverbial gun (held by Wyche) held to his head). I wonder if all the comments from people who say "who cares if he's an a-hole" have ever played on a team sport. Has anyone ever played a sport where a teammate in a leadership position is an unrespected a-hole? There's no way you can tell me that has no affect on a team ("professional" or not). It's about respect - not cockiness. (Jim) Kelly had it - I don't think JP does right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 The fact that we're having this discussion isn't a plus for Losman. And we're not talking about one article or one instance. We've heard some negative rumblings about Losman's attitude before the draft, then after he was drafted from some ex-team mates, and last year with the leg incident and then this year with Moulds' unhappiness and some other anonymous sources citing discontent with Losman. I don't think sports writers are just making this up. I don't think everyone is misunderstanding one another. And I don't think the comments are as innocent as Kelly the Dog is portraying them as. Pro athletes are taught every year not to ever publicly reveal what they're really thinking. You have to read between the lines. I can't believe that when players are saying that "no one thinks Losman is ready" that they mean it in an "aw, shucks" kind of way. Otherwise it would have been phrased different - more positively or optimistically. But really, we can't really know what's going on. Everyone treats the NFL and especially this organization like it's more important than it is. It's a football team. A football team. A football team. I guess we'll find out sooner or later whether or not Losman's "cockiness" is more like Jim Kelly or Jim McMahon, though. 550821[/snapback] A lot of players loved McMahon, and he won a Super Bowl. Furthermore, I agree with you that players know what they're saying, and you must read between the lines. But what you can't do, is what you and other fans are doing, put lines in their mouths, or evel kneival from one statement to another. Players weren't saying "no one thinks Losman is ready". That's an entirely different concept, to me anyway (who works as a writer, btw) than Jerry Sullivan reporting that one inside source, when asked how many players think Losman isn't ready, said try most of them. If there was one quoted player as saying "No one in this locker room think Losman is ready" I would be worried. But even further, seriously, where do you make the jump from not thinking he is ready, especially when they're comparing him to Kelly Holcomb, to "the players don't like him." That's what this was all about. I am one of the only ones that think he's ready (and I only think that because I think the alternative is already done, so he's ready to be the Bills starter not he's ready to be a star in this league. If you asked the question of "Do you think Losman is ready?" to this entire board, you would likely get the answer of "no" from most of them. Which is what Jerry Sullivan was allegedly reporting of the Bills players. And you wouldn't know one thing about whether this board liked Losman or not. Thought he was a bust or not. Thought he was a punk or not. ALL of these reports from the Bills were about KH being better prepared than Losman. Even Moulds, Losman's biggest detractor, says he likes Losman. Every actual quote about his relationship with Losman that I have seen Moulds has been favorable, he just doesn't like the fact that Losman is too green, throws to Evans more, and that KH is better prepared, and wants Holcomb as the QB because he wants to win. When Moulds threw his little shitfit it was about the play-calling, not because Losman was a jerk or a punk or even threw the ball to Evams more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 I totally agree with you here. And hearing that JP WANTED to play makes me even further want to see MM gone. 550699[/snapback] now you see Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agua Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 I don't think sports writers are just making this up. Why? Maybe your WNY beat writers have higher standards than the ones following the Phins, but the S.Fla. guys make crap up all the time, then base subsequent stories on previous garbage made up in other rags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 I will add that do I think Losman is beloved by all his teammates? Of course not. Do I think he's cocky? Of course, and I sure hope so. Do I think it's impossible that a lot of the team doesn't like him? Sure, it's possible, although there have been no real signs of it. What I also think is that he is a tough, brass, confident, cocky, half-Latino kid from the barrio in a really tough neighborhood that sometimes may brush people the wrong way. But as soon as he starts playing well, everyone will love playing with him. And precisely none of this talk has much if anything to do with liking or disliking Losman. This has to do with losing football games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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