Profiles in Islam

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

So do you propose erradication of the religion?

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No, but I do propose fighting their cultural aggression much harder than we currently are. We should be saturating their airways with secular messages, assaulting their very senses with western thoughts and ideals. What I think is we should quash their individual cultures with an overwhelming blitz of western glamor and free speech.

 

Commercialism is a powerful tool, let's use it. Drown their fervor with mindless MTV.

 

Seduce their youth with western gadgetry.

 

The only way we'll beat this scourge is to make it so unappealing that no one wants to follow it.

 

Edit: it worked with communism. It will work with Islamism, too.

 

Travel to Kuwait sometime and tell me how many pairs of Levis and Mustangs you see. It's like walking around in Chicago.

[pdh1]

I never claimed you did.  It was a question.  It seems to me that the logical conclusion of you "Islam Bad" tirades to to erradicate the religion.  I'm asking you to take a stand.  All you do is produce "Islam Bad" rhetoric.

 

I certainly agree that the Islamic community has to look inward.  But I seldom see any community do so when faced with over the top criticism like you routinely provide.  If anything, those communities tend to circle the wagons.

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Bull crap. Here in the US, and in the UK, most of the prime time news programs are in debate format. Letting two sides talk about the issues.

 

Large protests are often followed by counter-protests, like in Crawford Texas.

 

If posting some thoughts on sports message board is over the top criticism, what do you consider burning the streets of Paris for two weeks or blowing up people on a Subway, or beheading a teacher because they dare to teach "shudders"....girls?

 

KANDAHAR, Afghanistan -- A school teacher has been found decapitated in Afghanistan, murdered by suspected Taliban militants protesting the education of girls. A spokesman for the provincial government said assailants apparently broke into the man's house Tuesday night and killed him. He was a teacher at a high school attended by both boys and girls. The education director of the province said insurgents have been putting up posters demanding that girls' schools be closed and threatening to kill teachers at schools that stay open. The official said, "Only the Taliban are against girls being educated."

[Crap Throwing Monkey]

Indonesia? Is that a joke?

 

http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_1587161,00050004.htm

A bomb ripped through a crowded meat market in an Indonesian province that has been plagued by sectarian violence, killing at least 8 people on Saturday and wounding 45, officials said. Many of the victims were believed to be Christians. The attack occurred in the town of Palu as people were preparing for New Year's celebrations.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/1955918.stm

At least 12 people have been killed by a Muslim mob which attacked a Christian village in the Moluccan islands in eastern Indonesia. The violence then spread to the regional capital, Ambon city, where a bomb went off, and a centre for Christian and Muslim children and one of the city's main churches were set on fire

 

http://www.ekklesia.co.uk/content/news_syn...0iattacks.shtml

Christians and foreigners living in many parts of Indonesia, the world’s most populous Muslim nation, are increasingly fearful for their safety following the Bali bombings and a series of brutal religious attacks over the past few weeks.

 

And this recent gem:

 

Today, the decapitated bodies of three Christian schoolgirls, all aged in their teens, were discovered on a road leading to a school in Poso, Central Sulawesi. The Jakarta Post states that the girls are believed to have been walking to school when they were killed.

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Yeah, Indonesia. You said "great and thriving", which the Christian community in Indonesia IS. Your OWN RESPONSE demonstrates that the Indonesian Christian community is great and thriving enough to be attacked by extremists.

 

And, as I've pointed out already, the Indonesian Islamic community and government generally supports the Christian community, up to and including guarding Christian churches against attacks by extremists.

 

Even a cursory search of the info can reveal that the Indonesian population, regardless of religion, is generally unified against Islamic extremism (hell, once again YOUR OWN POST demonstrates this, if you actually bothered to read what you posted). It's not Islam causing the problem, it's extremism.

[Crap Throwing Monkey]

Bull crap. Here in the US, and in the UK, most of the prime time news programs are in debate format. Letting two sides talk about the issues.

 

Large protests are often followed by counter-protests, like in Crawford Texas.

 

If posting some thoughts on sports message board is over the top criticism, what do you consider burning the streets of Paris for two weeks or blowing up people on a Subway, or beheading a teacher because they dare to teach "shudders"....girls?

 

KANDAHAR, Afghanistan -- A school teacher has been found decapitated in Afghanistan, murdered by suspected Taliban militants protesting the education of girls. A spokesman for the provincial government said assailants apparently broke into the man's house Tuesday night and killed him. He was a teacher at a high school attended by both boys and girls. The education director of the province said insurgents have been putting up posters demanding that girls' schools be closed and threatening to kill teachers at schools that stay open. The official said, "Only the Taliban are against girls being educated."

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And the vast majority of Muslims in Afghanistan do not support the Taleban.

 

You're seriously ignorant on this subject, you know that? Afghanistan, overall, was one of the most permissive "Islamic" countries in the world before the Taliban extremists took over.

[Scraps]

Bull crap. Here in the US, and in the UK, most of the prime time news programs are in debate format. Letting two sides talk about the issues.

 

Large protests are often followed by counter-protests, like in Crawford Texas.

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Can you point to examples where this has changed religiously based cultures in the West? From what I've seen, most religious people lash out at what they percieve as attacks.

 

Thanks for another of your classic rants.

[pdh1]

Yeah, Indonesia.  You said "great and thriving", which the Christian community in Indonesia IS.  Your OWN RESPONSE demonstrates that the Indonesian Christian community is great and thriving enough to be attacked by extremists. 

 

And, as I've pointed out already, the Indonesian Islamic community and government generally supports the Christian community, up to and including guarding Christian churches against attacks by extremists.

.

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This probably the funniest/saddest thing I have read all year. Even though it is only 5 days old.

"Great and Thriving" would imply not being attacked by mobs or having you markets blow up because you have different religious view.

 

 

And I am ignorant on the subject? Ever hear of East Timor? Did you know what a happened there? Do you know how it relates to the religous violence in Indonesian? Your great friggin example.Do you actually know or have any family members who the displeasure of living there?

 

Or do you just base your information on MTV and Air America?

[Alaska Darin]

This probably the funniest/saddest thing I have read all year. Even though it is only 5 days old.

"Great and Thriving" would imply not being attacked by mobs or having you markets blow up because you have different religious view.

And I am ignorant on the subject? Ever hear of East Timor? Did you know what a happened there? Do you know how it relates to the religous violence in Indonesian? Your great friggin example.Do you actually know or have any family members who the displeasure of living there?

 

Or do you just base your information on MTV and Air America?

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This is going to be fun to watch.

[Mickey]

This is going to be fun to watch.

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We need some popcorn for this.

[Mickey]

Hey Scraps, how they hangin'? Haven't seen you for a while.

 

Let me go back and read the thread, so I can attack and pick on you.

 

From what little I did read, I'd be inclined to pick on everybody, though. But, my ideas are different. I've yet to gain or understand PPP perspective about much of anything.

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Oh please, you were our leader at one point or have you blotted out the IBP from those few remaining brain cells still stubbornly clinging to life in your gin soaked skull?

[Taro T]

We need some popcorn for this.

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Extra butter please.

[Crap Throwing Monkey]

This probably the funniest/saddest thing I have read all year. Even though it is only 5 days old.

"Great and Thriving" would imply not being attacked by mobs or having you markets blow up because you have different religious view.

 

Is it? So by that standard, Judaism isn't thriving in Israel, since Palestinian mobs regularly attack Jews and blow up buildings.

 

I was pretty sure your definition of "great and thriving" would be nonsensical. I hadn't realized it would be THAT nonsensical.

 

And I am ignorant on the subject? Ever hear of East Timor? Did you know what a happened there? Do you know how it relates to the religous violence in Indonesian? Your great friggin example.

 

East Timor: a Portugese colony, primarily Catholic now but at the time Islamic, that declared its independence and was subsequently invaded and terrorized by Indonesia. The invasion and early stages of the subsequent occupation, including an estimated 60k deaths a year, was largely the responsibility of General Moerdani, an Indonesian Catholic. The later stages were more the responsibility of Suharto, who courted the more extreme Islamic elements in Indonesia to defy the rising calls for democratic reform...and which ultimately led to his step down from power, as the Muslim majority in Indonesia became progressively more outraged at the abuses of the hard-line Islamic radicals, particularly with respect to the government's persecution of Christians.

 

But keep trying to tell me that you have any !@#$ing idea what you're talking about, or that ALL - or even any significant portion - of Muslims in Indonesia are a problem or a threat to a community of 20 million Indonesian Christians that, despite their numbers and the support of the majority of Muslims, aren't a "great and thriving" religious community.

 

You'd have been better off trying to use Laskar Jihad's violent and oppressive attempts at converting the Christian population of Sulawesi...but you probably are as ignorant on that as you are everything else, so you probably wouldn't know that the vast majority of Indonesian Muslims did not support Laskar Jihad - a group made up primarily of non-Indonesian veterans of the fighting in Bosnia and Afghanistan.

 

Do you actually know or have any family members who the displeasure of living there?

 

Probably as many as you...

 

Or do you just base your information on MTV and Air America?

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As opposed to your Bazooka Joe comics?

[Crap Throwing Monkey]

This is going to be fun to watch.

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How many posts do you think it'll take before I'm a loser because I have 5k posts?

[GG]

I'm a loser because I have 5k posts? 

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You don't...

[philburger1]

Is it?  So by that standard, Judaism isn't thriving in Israel, since Palestinian mobs regularly attack Jews and blow up buildings.  

 

But keep trying to tell me that you have any !@#$ing idea what you're talking about, or that ALL - or even any significant portion - of Muslims in Indonesia are a problem or a threat to a community of 20 million  Indonesian Christians that, despite their numbers and the support of the majority of Muslims, aren't a "great and thriving" religious community.

 

You'd have been better off trying to use Laskar Jihad's violent and oppressive attempts at converting the Christian population of Sulawesi...but you probably are as ignorant on that as you are everything else, so you probably wouldn't know that the vast majority of Indonesian Muslims did not support Laskar Jihad - a group made up primarily of non-Indonesian veterans of the fighting in Bosnia and Afghanistan.

 

As opposed to your Bazooka Joe comics?

 

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Uh, we are talking about countries were people who follow other religions are the MINORITY in places Islam is the MAJORITY. And how MULSIMS treat those RELIGIOUS MINORITIES.

 

So how is using the one Jewish country in the world that surrounded and constantly attacked by Muslim neighbors in any way relevant to the discuss of HOW PEOPLE WHO HAVE DIFFERENT RELIGIOUS BELIEFS ARE TREATED IN MAJORITY ISLAMIC COUNTRIES?

 

Again, terrific example there .

 

EAST TIMOR: Hmm. When the UN (with the majority of troops from Australia) came to kick out Islamic Indonesian troops, do you know what they did on the way out?

They filled fire truck with gasoline, drove up on down the street spraying every building and house, many with people still in them, and set them all on fire before they left.

 

Why, because they were Christians. I guess this type of lovely incident isn't as news worthy as some one dropping the Koran, or taking naked pretzel pictures.

As matter of fact, Australia was consider a prime target for the Jihad Johnnies before the Iraq because of their role in East Timor.

 

And the people that did that were Indonesian government troops, that were drum roll...muslims.

Believe it not, my brother-in -law was there to see it first hand. So this news isn't coming from Newsmax or Worldnet Daily.

 

And yet, you have the mental capacity to choose INDONESIA as a place with other religions thrive along side their peaceful islamic country men.

 

Great Choice

 

 

And the Bazooka Joe comment? That is the best you got?

At least I mention real "news" outlets, though they are funnier than most comic strips.

[Crap Throwing Monkey]

Uh, we are talking about countries were people who follow other religions are the MINORITY in places Islam is the MAJORITY. And how MULSIMS treat those RELIGIOUS MINORITIES.

 

So how is using the one Jewish country in the world that surrounded and constantly attacked by Muslim neighbors in any way relevant to the discuss of HOW PEOPLE WHO HAVE DIFFERENT RELIGIOUS BELIEFS ARE TREATED IN MAJORITY ISLAMIC COUNTRIES?

 

Again, terrific example there .

 

Don't ask me. I'm not the one that said "great and thriving" implied not being attacked by mobs or having you markets blow up because you have different religious views.

 

Let me try and lay it out for you:

You said "great and thriving" meant "not being attacked by mobs or having you markets blow up because you have different religious views."

In Israel, Jews are attacked by mobs and have their markets blown up because they have different religious views.

Therefore, according to your definition of "great and thriving", Judaism is neither great nor thriving in Israel.

 

Of course, now you're saying you're only referring to "great and thriving" religions in Muslim countries. I have a sneaking suspicion your definition of "Muslim country" is one in which no other religion can possibly be widely followed. In other words, I doubt I can win this argument, as nothing can penetrate your stunningly tautological circular argument that no religion can be "great and thriving" in an Islamic country, because an Islamic country by definition does not have any other religions that are "great and thriving".

 

Normally, I'd call someone as ignorant as you a !@#$ing moron. But the usage of an a priori assumption as circular proof that said a priori assumption is true is one of those little logical satires that not only amuses me but requires a higher level of rational and creative thought than most !@#$ing morons can achieve. So thank you for making me laugh tonight (unless you stumbled upon it accidentally...in which case you're a !@#$ing moron).

 

EAST TIMOR: Hmm. When the UN (with the majority of troops from Australia) came to kick out Islamic Indonesian troops, do you know what they did on the way out?

They filled  fire truck with gasoline, drove up on down the street spraying every building and house, many with people still in them, and set them all on fire before they left.

 

Why, because they were Christians. I guess this type of lovely incident isn't as news worthy as some one dropping the Koran, or taking naked pretzel pictures.

As matter of fact, Australia was consider a prime target for the Jihad Johnnies before the Iraq because of their role in East Timor.

 

And the people that did that were Indonesian government troops, that were drum roll...muslims.

Believe it not, my brother-in -law was there to see it first hand. So this news isn't coming from Newsmax or Worldnet Daily.

 

And your brother-in-law knows this was because of religious strife and Islamic persecution of Christianity because...? I'm certain it's due to his 20-year experience with the entire Indonesian occupation in East Timor, of course. I'm sure in no way are you taking what your brother-in-law witnessed over the course of - what, a day? Three? Two weeks? - and generalizing it not only across the entire two decades of Indonesian occupation of East Timor, but the entire Indonesian nation. I'm equally sure you're not telling me that Indonesia's motivation behind invading East Timor in the first place wasn't to persecute Christians. You're not stupid enough to think your brother-in-law's experience represents the motivations of the Suharto government a quarter-century removed.

 

Wait...what am I saying? Of course you are. You're argument's akin to saying that Christians persecute Buddhists because we fought in Vietnam for ten years. It's very easy to make that argument: we killed lots of Buddhist Vietnamese. It's also unsupported by the facts: nowhere in the historical record was any decision ever made to persecute Buddhists by invading Vietnam. But if all you look at is Christian pilots and bombed-out Buddhist villages, then you get the impression that it was a holy war. It's the difference between looking at the whole picture, and generalizing a single narrow picture to what you think is the whole picture.

 

And the Bazooka Joe comment? That is the best you got?

At least I mention real "news" outlets, though they are funnier than most comic strips.  

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Oooh, attack my Bazooka Joe comment. Hit me where it hurts.

[philburger1]

Don't ask me.  I'm not the one that said "great and thriving" implied not being attacked by mobs or having you markets blow up because you have different religious views.

 

Let me try and lay it out for you:

You said "great and thriving" meant "not being attacked by mobs or having you markets blow up because you have different religious views."

In Israel, Jews are attacked by mobs and have their markets blown up because they have different religious views.

Therefore, according to your definition of "great and thriving", Judaism is neither great nor thriving in Israel.

 

 

Huh? I know you think you are being intellectual but your rant is bordering on hysterics.

 

Let's SLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW it down for you. Take a deep breath.

Pull the stick out of your arse. There you go.

 

Please name me one major religious conflict currently on the globe (not Hatfield and the McCoys size family feuds), just one major armed conflict or struggle, that doesn't involve Islam on one side of it. Please. Do tell. Buhadists fighting the Jews? Christians fighting the Hindus?

 

I can think of about 13 right of the bat that involve Islam fighting what it considers to be infidels.

 

So go ahead and keep telling yourself its extremism, not the religion itself that is the problem.

Keep trying to separate the two, and keep believing it is only 1% of the people that is causing all the problems.

 

And keep telling yourself that in someway they are justified, because of American Imperialism, Zionist aggression, and the legacy of the Crusades.

 

And when they do something next week like hijack a bus full senior citizens, crash into a blind children's hospital, blow it up, then dance in the streets and pass out candy, you can equate it to Vietnam some how being a religious conflict, or a terrorist having to take picture with a bra on his head.

 

Yes, they can always look forward to you jumping up to defend the Jihad Martyrs at any chance you get.

[Adam]

No, but I do propose fighting their cultural aggression much harder than we currently are. We should be saturating their airways with secular messages, assaulting their very senses with western thoughts and ideals. What I think is we should quash their individual cultures with an overwhelming blitz of western glamor and free speech.

 

Commercialism is a powerful tool, let's use it. Drown their fervor with mindless MTV.

 

Seduce their youth with western gadgetry.

 

The only way we'll beat this scourge is to make it so unappealing that no one wants to follow it.

 

Edit: it worked with communism. It will work with Islamism, too.

 

Travel to Kuwait sometime and tell me how many pairs of Levis and Mustangs you see. It's like walking around in Chicago.

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Boadcast MTV, so they all become as useless as Paris Hilton

[Simon]

your rant is bordering on hysterics...

 

keep believing it is only 1% of the people that is causing all the problems...

 

keep telling yourself that in someway they are justified, because of American Imperialism, Zionist aggression, and the legacy of the Crusades...

 

And when they do something next week like hijack a bus full senior citizens, crash into a blind children's hospital, blow it up, then dance in the streets and pass out candy, you can equate it to Vietnam some how being a religious conflict, or a terrorist having to take picture with a bra on his head.

 

Yes, they can always look forward to you jumping up to defend the Jihad Martyrs at any chance you get.

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Somebody pass the powdered sprinkle cheese.....

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Boadcast MTV, so they all become as useless as Paris Hilton

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That's the idea. Hook them on the heroin that's destroyed our own youth. Worked for youthful rebellion here, why not there?

[dave mcbride]

Huh? I know you think you are being intellectual but your rant is bordering on hysterics.

 

Let's SLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW it down for you. Take a deep breath.

Pull the stick out of your arse. There you go.

 

Please name me one major religious conflict currently on the globe (not Hatfield and the McCoys size family feuds), just one major armed conflict or struggle, that doesn't involve Islam on one side of it. Please. Do tell. Buhadists fighting the Jews? Christians fighting the Hindus?

 

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ever hear of a little place called ... bosnia??? where nominal muslims were targeted for extermination by a quasi-fascist population feeding off of religiously based 500 year old myths? i know your response -- but muslims were involved!

 

the absolutely brutal russian occupation of chechnya shoots a hole in your theory as well. the chechens aren't blameless, but they didn't start it and their actions pale in comparison to the nominally christian russians, and their historically based grievances against the russians (primarily stalin) are entirely valid.

 

as for tolerance of other religions in muslim countries, you may want to check turkey. seems to me that they have an excellent relationship with israel as well.