KRC Posted January 5, 2006 Posted January 5, 2006 By failing to address Jordan, I think the failed to address the point. 555168[/snapback] So, we agree that he did a piss-poor job in his rebuttal.
pdh1 Posted January 5, 2006 Posted January 5, 2006 By failing to address Jordan, I think the failed to address the point. 555168[/snapback] Did you know that Christians in Muslim countries are not even allowed to pray or wear a small cross? If they do, they are thrown in prison and tortured. Do Muslims see this as oppression? Of course not, Christians have no rights. Christians are barely considered human, unlike Jews, whom Muslims consider to be monkeys. These Muslim Brits are protesting the killing in Iraq. Apparently, these particular Muslims are illiterate as well as deaf and blind. These Muslims that enjoy western freedom of speech in London must protest the Muslims being killed in Iraq. The only real problem is that many of those doing the killing in Iraq are from Saudi Arabia, Syria, Jordan, and Yemen. The rest are bought-off Iraqi Muslims. The people being killed are indeed mostly Iraqi Muslims. Are they being killed by the Americans or the British? No! They are being killed by Muslims. There were nearly 100 Iraqis killed in just the last two days
Scraps Posted January 5, 2006 Posted January 5, 2006 Did you know that Christians in Muslim countries are not even allowed to pray or wear a small cross? If they do, they are thrown in prison and tortured. Do Muslims see this as oppression? Of course not, Christians have no rights. Christians are barely considered human, unlike Jews, whom Muslims consider to be monkeys. These Muslim Brits are protesting the killing in Iraq. Apparently, these particular Muslims are illiterate as well as deaf and blind. These Muslims that enjoy western freedom of speech in London must protest the Muslims being killed in Iraq. The only real problem is that many of those doing the killing in Iraq are from Saudi Arabia, Syria, Jordan, and Yemen. The rest are bought-off Iraqi Muslims. The people being killed are indeed mostly Iraqi Muslims. Are they being killed by the Americans or the British? No! They are being killed by Muslims. There were nearly 100 Iraqis killed in just the last two days 555225[/snapback] I'm more than a bit skeptical about your first paragraph. There are Christian Churches in Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Indonesia and Turkey to name a few. There was also a synagogue in Baghdad before we invaded and practicing Jews in Yemen. I'm not saying that there aren't problems within the Islamic community, but all you seem to do is demonize them. Are you saying there is no hope for change in the muslim community? If there is no hope, what should we do, kill them all? I note you didn't address the protests in Jordan again.
Ghost of BiB Posted January 5, 2006 Posted January 5, 2006 Hey Scraps, how they hangin'? Haven't seen you for a while. Let me go back and read the thread, so I can attack and pick on you. From what little I did read, I'd be inclined to pick on everybody, though. But, my ideas are different. I've yet to gain or understand PPP perspective about much of anything.
pdh1 Posted January 5, 2006 Posted January 5, 2006 I'm more than a bit skeptical about your first paragraph. There are Christian Churches in Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Indonesia and Turkey to name a few. There was also a synagogue in Baghdad before we invaded and practicing Jews in Yemen. I'm not saying that there aren't problems within the Islamic community, but all you seem to do is demonize them. Are you saying there is no hope for change in the muslim community? If there is no hope, what should we do, kill them all? I note you didn't address the protests in Jordan again. 555258[/snapback] Fine, lets address Jordan. Jordan and Lebanon have the highest percentage of non-muslims of any country in the middle-east. Where there some protests in Jordan after they got bombed? Sure. But according to most reports, the crowds were in the hundreds, not like then tens of thousands, even hundreds of thousands that take part in death to Israel, death to America rallies. Hell, a lot more showed to protest the French Head Gear ban. And WAAAY more turn up and got violent over a story about a Koran being mishandled, that later had to be retracted by Newsweek. That one resulted in the deaths of up to 20 people. I am not saying there is no hope for change in their community, BUT, this “playing the victim” hand is pathetic, when they are the own worst enemy. And nobody has a worst record of religious persecution of minorities than the Muslim countries in the middle east and Pacific like Iran, Syria, Egypt, Indonesia, etc.... So when so one tries to sue the state of Florida because they can’t cover their face in drivers license picture, because the believe their religious beliefs are being trounced on, please ask themselves who a person who moves to Saudi Arabia and tries to open a Christian book store would be treated. Anti-Terror rally in Jordan: http://members.tripod.com/aminstrel/4e9902c0.jpg Death to Jews Rally: http://images.ctv.ca/archives/CTVNews/img2...test_051028.jpg Anti US rally in Pakistan: http://www.newprophecy.net/anti-US_protest_in_Pakistan_2.jpg Who is having more fun?
X. Benedict Posted January 5, 2006 Posted January 5, 2006 Fine, lets address Jordan.Jordan and Lebanon have the highest percentage of non-muslims of any country in the middle-east. Where there some protests in Jordan after they got bombed? Sure. But according to most reports, the crowds were in the hundreds, not like then tens of thousands, even hundreds of thousands that take part in death to Israel, death to America rallies. Hell, a lot more showed to protest the French Head Gear ban. And WAAAY more turn up and got violent over a story about a Koran being mishandled, that later had to be retracted by Newsweek. That one resulted in the deaths of up to 20 people. I am not saying there is no hope for change in their community, BUT, this “playing the victim” hand is pathetic, when they are the own worst enemy. And nobody has a worst record of religious persecution of minorities than the Muslim countries in the middle east and Pacific like Iran, Syria, Egypt, Indonesia, etc.... So when so one tries to sue the state of Florida because they can’t cover their face in drivers license picture, because the believe their religious beliefs are being trounced on, please ask themselves who a person who moves to Saudi Arabia and tries to open a Christian book store would be treated. Anti-Terror rally in Jordan: http://members.tripod.com/aminstrel/4e9902c0.jpg Death to Jews Rally: http://images.ctv.ca/archives/CTVNews/img2...test_051028.jpg Anti US rally in Pakistan: http://www.newprophecy.net/anti-US_protest_in_Pakistan_2.jpg Who is having more fun? 555581[/snapback] I think I get your point. So should I feel differently about Muslims now? Or should I agree that the intensity of Muslim feeling is often misplaced? I'm honestly a little puzzled.
Scraps Posted January 5, 2006 Posted January 5, 2006 Fine, lets address Jordan.Jordan and Lebanon have the highest percentage of non-muslims of any country in the middle-east. Where there some protests in Jordan after they got bombed? Sure. But according to most reports, the crowds were in the hundreds, not like then tens of thousands, even hundreds of thousands that take part in death to Israel, death to America rallies. Hell, a lot more showed to protest the French Head Gear ban. And WAAAY more turn up and got violent over a story about a Koran being mishandled, that later had to be retracted by Newsweek. That one resulted in the deaths of up to 20 people. I am not saying there is no hope for change in their community, BUT, this “playing the victim” hand is pathetic, when they are the own worst enemy. And nobody has a worst record of religious persecution of minorities than the Muslim countries in the middle east and Pacific like Iran, Syria, Egypt, Indonesia, etc.... So when so one tries to sue the state of Florida because they can’t cover their face in drivers license picture, because the believe their religious beliefs are being trounced on, please ask themselves who a person who moves to Saudi Arabia and tries to open a Christian book store would be treated. Anti-Terror rally in Jordan: http://members.tripod.com/aminstrel/4e9902c0.jpg Death to Jews Rally: http://images.ctv.ca/archives/CTVNews/img2...test_051028.jpg Anti US rally in Pakistan: http://www.newprophecy.net/anti-US_protest_in_Pakistan_2.jpg Who is having more fun? 555581[/snapback] Ah the old moral relativism argument along with more incitement and a link that goes no where. Thanks.
chicot Posted January 5, 2006 Posted January 5, 2006 Did you know that Christians in Muslim countries are not even allowed to pray or wear a small cross? If they do, they are thrown in prison and tortured. Do Muslims see this as oppression? Of course not, Christians have no rights. Christians are barely considered human, unlike Jews, whom Muslims consider to be monkeys. These Muslim Brits are protesting the killing in Iraq. Apparently, these particular Muslims are illiterate as well as deaf and blind. These Muslims that enjoy western freedom of speech in London must protest the Muslims being killed in Iraq. The only real problem is that many of those doing the killing in Iraq are from Saudi Arabia, Syria, Jordan, and Yemen. The rest are bought-off Iraqi Muslims. The people being killed are indeed mostly Iraqi Muslims. Are they being killed by the Americans or the British? No! They are being killed by Muslims. There were nearly 100 Iraqis killed in just the last two days 555225[/snapback] "Did you know that Christians in Muslim countries are not even allowed to pray or wear a small cross? If they do, they are thrown in prison and tortured. Do Muslims see this as oppression? Of course not, Christians have no rights. Christians are barely considered human, unlike Jews, whom Muslims consider to be monkeys." This sort of blanket assertion just shows your ignorance. Yes, Christians are persecuted in some muslim countries but to imply that wearing a small cross in say, Turkey or Tunisia for instance (both "muslim countries"), would get you "thrown in prison and tortured" is just ridiculous.
pdh1 Posted January 5, 2006 Posted January 5, 2006 "Did you know that Christians in Muslim countries are not even allowed to pray or wear a small cross? If they do, they are thrown in prison and tortured. Do Muslims see this as oppression? Of course not, Christians have no rights. Christians are barely considered human, unlike Jews, whom Muslims consider to be monkeys." This sort of blanket assertion just shows your ignorance. Yes, Christians are persecuted in some muslim countries but to imply that wearing a small cross in say, Turkey or Tunisia for instance (both "muslim countries"), would get you "thrown in prison and tortured" is just ridiculous. 555709[/snapback] From the well know Right Wing Sounding Box, the Washington Times: "The Oct. 28 attack by Islamic militants on a Pakistani church that left 16 dead dramatizes the plight of Christians in Muslim-ruled countries, and according to several human rights organizations it's a dismal one. In many of those countries, Christians cannot openly practice their religion, nor attempt to convert others to it. Churches are not even allowed in Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan, and in other Islamic countries there are severe restrictions on where they can build and to whom they can preach the Gospel. The religious freedom enjoyed by America's 1.8 million to 2 million Muslims - the numbers are in dispute, and some Muslim groups claim millions more - lets them construct mosques, set up their own nonprofit groups and evangelize for their religion. Protected by the First Amendment, radical Muslim groups have also freely operated and raised funds here. The U.S. State Department's annual religious freedom report, released Oct. 25, rates Islamic-ruled Afghanistan among the worst countries - along with Burma, China, Cuba, Laos, North Korea and Vietnam - in terms of religious freedom. Runners-up included Iran, Iraq, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and Sudan, where leaving Islam for another religion is a capital offense. Turkmenistan, where four Baptists were tortured for having religious literature in their car, made the list, along with Uzbekistan. Nigeria, Indonesia and Sudan lead the world in actual death tolls of Christians, says Paul Marshall, senior fellow of the Center for Religious Freedom at Freedom House in the District. The number of Christians and animists who have perished in the Sudan is estimated at 2 million. In terms of Draconian government restrictions, Saudi Arabia, Nigeria, Afghanistan and Turkmenistan are the most severe. Pakistan has "very bad laws," Mr. Marshall says, but "compared to these others, it's relatively open." Iran, which allowed the slaying of several prominent Christian pastors in the mid-1990s, has severe laws against Christians trying to evangelize Muslims. But outright persecution there has lessened a bit, he says, probably due to the influence of its reform-minded president Mohammed Khatami. Robert Finley, founder of Christian Aid, a missions organization in Charlottesville, Va., points to Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia as the most repressive countries. Iraq is the least hostile country in the Middle East toward Christians, he says, because its brand of Islam is more secularized than that of Saudi Arabia. "But Kuwait is very intolerant of Christians," he said. "They just don't allow them." The Kuwaiti constitution promises freedom of religion but does not address conversion. In 1996, the marriage of a Kuwaiti convert from Islam to Christianity was forcibly dissolved and his children taken from him before he underwent a much-publicized trial for apostasy. Shafeeq Ghabra of the Kuwait Information Office says his country has plenty of churches. "There are Catholics and non-Catholics," he said in an interview. "There are several important churches there. There are hundreds of thousands of Christians in Kuwait." Most of these are expatriates, he says, estimating that 5 percent of the Kuwaiti people themselves are Christians. Human Rights Watch cites Indonesia, the world's largest Muslim country, as a place where Christian villages have suffered repeated attacks from Muslim militias. Starting in 1999, the conflict has left more than 5,000 dead and at least 400,000 refugees on about a dozen islands in central Indonesia. Although the government "appealed for humanitarian aid for the hundreds of thousands of displaced people," it says in its 2001 World Report, "it also obstructed delivery of that aid." Steve Snyder, president of International Christian Concern in the District, has traveled to Indonesia and is trying to raise funds to rescue Christians trapped in villages surrounded by warriors belonging to Laskar Jihad, an Islamic group. "Laskar Jihad has been continually attacking Christian villages, murdering Christians and burning down their houses, businesses and church buildings for well over a year now," he said, "and the Indonesian government has seemingly been unable or unwilling to stop them." Punishment meted out to Christians from the Islamic militias has included a choice between conversion to Islam or death, he says. The conversions have included forced circumcisions of men, women and children. "Laskar Jihad trained in Afghanistan," Mr. Marshall says. "Their personnel have met with Osama's networks. They've got 5,000 people who've had some military training and they've been killing, converting or forcibly driving out all the Christians in the area." A spokesman for the Indonesian Embassy says his government is doing its best to stop the fighting. "We are promoting some measures to reconcile these groups, and we've installed our security forces to quell the violence," says Dino Djalal, head of the embassy's political section. "We've declared civil emergency in that area. Our navy has installed a blockade so the violence doesn't spread. We are sending troops there and taking care of the refugees." A Web site set up by Islamic warriors in Indonesia (www.laskarjihad.or.id) claims that Christians, backed by Jews, are the aggressors in central Indonesia. "The honor and existence of the ummah [Muslim community] must continually be defended in the midst of attacks by international Cross/Zionist activities," says a statement issued by Laskar Jihad. "As Muslims, we adamantly believe that a solution to the current problem ... involves a movement toward jihad." Egypt turns a deaf ear to complaints of discrimination against Christians, Mr. Marshall says, and the lives of Christians is equally grim in Nigeria, where Islamic law, or shariah, has been implemented in 12 states. Mr. Marshall, who visited the country in June, says 5,000 persons have died there and whole neighborhoods in the cities of Kaduna, Jos and Kano have been razed because of Muslim-Christian fighting. "On September 11, when Muslim groups took to the streets to celebrate the terrorist attacks on the United States, that rekindled violence," he says. "Some 300 to 400 people died in the two days since then.""
pdh1 Posted January 5, 2006 Posted January 5, 2006 I think I get your point. So should I feel differently about Muslims now? Or should I agree that the intensity of Muslim feeling is often misplaced? I'm honestly a little puzzled. 555662[/snapback] Well the original point of the post was to mock the "onward christians soliders" post on the board. Like a couple cooks wanting to fire bomb some clinic is the worst religious violence we have to fear in the world today. I don't think the right -to-lifer's are going to cause the stock market to shut down, the economy to tank, or ignite a regional war.
Scraps Posted January 5, 2006 Posted January 5, 2006 From the well know Right Wing Sounding Box, the Washington Times: "The Oct. 28 attack by Islamic militants on a Pakistani church that left 16 dead dramatizes the plight of Christians in Muslim-ruled countries, and according to several human rights organizations it's a dismal one. In many of those countries, Christians cannot openly practice their religion, nor attempt to convert others to it. Churches are not even allowed in Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan, and in other Islamic countries there are severe restrictions on where they can build and to whom they can preach the Gospel. The religious freedom enjoyed by America's 1.8 million to 2 million Muslims - the numbers are in dispute, and some Muslim groups claim millions more - lets them construct mosques, set up their own nonprofit groups and evangelize for their religion. Protected by the First Amendment, radical Muslim groups have also freely operated and raised funds here. The U.S. State Department's annual religious freedom report, released Oct. 25, rates Islamic-ruled Afghanistan among the worst countries - along with Burma, China, Cuba, Laos, North Korea and Vietnam - in terms of religious freedom. Runners-up included Iran, Iraq, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and Sudan, where leaving Islam for another religion is a capital offense. Turkmenistan, where four Baptists were tortured for having religious literature in their car, made the list, along with Uzbekistan. Nigeria, Indonesia and Sudan lead the world in actual death tolls of Christians, says Paul Marshall, senior fellow of the Center for Religious Freedom at Freedom House in the District. The number of Christians and animists who have perished in the Sudan is estimated at 2 million. In terms of Draconian government restrictions, Saudi Arabia, Nigeria, Afghanistan and Turkmenistan are the most severe. Pakistan has "very bad laws," Mr. Marshall says, but "compared to these others, it's relatively open." Iran, which allowed the slaying of several prominent Christian pastors in the mid-1990s, has severe laws against Christians trying to evangelize Muslims. But outright persecution there has lessened a bit, he says, probably due to the influence of its reform-minded president Mohammed Khatami. Robert Finley, founder of Christian Aid, a missions organization in Charlottesville, Va., points to Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia as the most repressive countries. Iraq is the least hostile country in the Middle East toward Christians, he says, because its brand of Islam is more secularized than that of Saudi Arabia. "But Kuwait is very intolerant of Christians," he said. "They just don't allow them." The Kuwaiti constitution promises freedom of religion but does not address conversion. In 1996, the marriage of a Kuwaiti convert from Islam to Christianity was forcibly dissolved and his children taken from him before he underwent a much-publicized trial for apostasy. Shafeeq Ghabra of the Kuwait Information Office says his country has plenty of churches. "There are Catholics and non-Catholics," he said in an interview. "There are several important churches there. There are hundreds of thousands of Christians in Kuwait." Most of these are expatriates, he says, estimating that 5 percent of the Kuwaiti people themselves are Christians. Human Rights Watch cites Indonesia, the world's largest Muslim country, as a place where Christian villages have suffered repeated attacks from Muslim militias. Starting in 1999, the conflict has left more than 5,000 dead and at least 400,000 refugees on about a dozen islands in central Indonesia. Although the government "appealed for humanitarian aid for the hundreds of thousands of displaced people," it says in its 2001 World Report, "it also obstructed delivery of that aid." Steve Snyder, president of International Christian Concern in the District, has traveled to Indonesia and is trying to raise funds to rescue Christians trapped in villages surrounded by warriors belonging to Laskar Jihad, an Islamic group. "Laskar Jihad has been continually attacking Christian villages, murdering Christians and burning down their houses, businesses and church buildings for well over a year now," he said, "and the Indonesian government has seemingly been unable or unwilling to stop them." Punishment meted out to Christians from the Islamic militias has included a choice between conversion to Islam or death, he says. The conversions have included forced circumcisions of men, women and children. "Laskar Jihad trained in Afghanistan," Mr. Marshall says. "Their personnel have met with Osama's networks. They've got 5,000 people who've had some military training and they've been killing, converting or forcibly driving out all the Christians in the area." A spokesman for the Indonesian Embassy says his government is doing its best to stop the fighting. "We are promoting some measures to reconcile these groups, and we've installed our security forces to quell the violence," says Dino Djalal, head of the embassy's political section. "We've declared civil emergency in that area. Our navy has installed a blockade so the violence doesn't spread. We are sending troops there and taking care of the refugees." A Web site set up by Islamic warriors in Indonesia (www.laskarjihad.or.id) claims that Christians, backed by Jews, are the aggressors in central Indonesia. "The honor and existence of the ummah [Muslim community] must continually be defended in the midst of attacks by international Cross/Zionist activities," says a statement issued by Laskar Jihad. "As Muslims, we adamantly believe that a solution to the current problem ... involves a movement toward jihad." Egypt turns a deaf ear to complaints of discrimination against Christians, Mr. Marshall says, and the lives of Christians is equally grim in Nigeria, where Islamic law, or shariah, has been implemented in 12 states. Mr. Marshall, who visited the country in June, says 5,000 persons have died there and whole neighborhoods in the cities of Kaduna, Jos and Kano have been razed because of Muslim-Christian fighting. "On September 11, when Muslim groups took to the streets to celebrate the terrorist attacks on the United States, that rekindled violence," he says. "Some 300 to 400 people died in the two days since then."" 555724[/snapback] Nobody is denying that there are some evil, a$$ backward muslim countries. However you made a blanket statement about all muslim countries which is factually incorrect. I believe you did so simply to incite hate and mistrust.
pdh1 Posted January 5, 2006 Posted January 5, 2006 Nobody is denying that there are some evil, a$$ backward muslim countries. However you made a blanket statement about all muslim countries which is factually incorrect. I believe you did so simply to incite hate and mistrust. 555738[/snapback] So which Muslim country has a great, thriving multi-religion society? The problem is Islam is considered not just religion, but as the basis for government and the sole guide for living. There is no separation of Church and State by its very definition. Thus, followers of other religions become second class citizens.
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted January 5, 2006 Posted January 5, 2006 Nobody is denying that there are some evil, a$$ backward muslim countries. However you made a blanket statement about all muslim countries which is factually incorrect. I believe you did so simply to incite hate and mistrust. 555738[/snapback] More than some. MOST. That's the key word there, MOST. And it's not just Christians. Hindus, animists, buddhists, sikhs, Jews and other religious groups ALL feel the wrath of governments in the Muslim world and at its periphery. Islam is anything BUT a religion of peace and tolerance. Its very roots are not in evangelism but rather forcible conquest and conversion. And don't talk to me about the crusades. They were a political war with a thin veneer of religion. This war is all about the eradication of non-Islamic religion worldwide. So get with the program or buy yourself a prayer carpet. Your choice.
Scraps Posted January 5, 2006 Posted January 5, 2006 More than some. MOST. That's the key word there, MOST. And it's not just Christians. Hindus, animists, buddhists, sikhs, Jews and other religious groups ALL feel the wrath of governments in the Muslim world and at its periphery. Islam is anything BUT a religion of peace and tolerance. Its very roots are not in evangelism but rather forcible conquest and conversion. And don't talk to me about the crusades. They were a political war with a thin veneer of religion. This war is all about the eradication of non-Islamic religion worldwide. So get with the program or buy yourself a prayer carpet. Your choice. 555804[/snapback] So do you propose erradication of the religion?
Scraps Posted January 5, 2006 Posted January 5, 2006 So which Muslim country has a great, thriving multi-religion society?The problem is Islam is considered not just religion, but as the basis for government and the sole guide for living. There is no separation of Church and State by its very definition. Thus, followers of other religions become second class citizens. 555802[/snapback] Didn't I say Islam has problems? What do you suggest? Genocide based upon religion?
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted January 5, 2006 Posted January 5, 2006 So which Muslim country has a great, thriving multi-religion society? 555802[/snapback] Indonesia, for one. I also know there's a few sub-Saharan African countries that do as well, but I can't remember which ones off the top of my head. Lots of Arab countries used to, until about the mid-50s when Nasser prompted the rise of Arab nationalism. Which is the basic flaw in your argument: Islam is more often than not a tool Arab nationalists use to justify their terrorism, not the other way around.
pdh1 Posted January 5, 2006 Posted January 5, 2006 Didn't I say Islam has problems? What do you suggest? Genocide based upon religion? 555829[/snapback] Did I say that? please point it out to me, i forgot. to sum up: 1) to the Islamic community, start looking inward instead of blaming the jews, christians, and hindus for all your problems 2) comparing the far right christian global movement to Islamic Jihad is like comparing a local house break-in criminal gang to Murder, Inc.
pdh1 Posted January 5, 2006 Posted January 5, 2006 Indonesia, for one. I also know there's a few sub-Saharan African countries that do as well, but I can't remember which ones off the top of my head. Lots of Arab countries used to, until about the mid-50s when Nasser prompted the rise of Arab nationalism. Which is the basic flaw in your argument: Islam is more often than not a tool Arab nationalists use to justify their terrorism, not the other way around. 555887[/snapback] Indonesia? Is that a joke? http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_1587161,00050004.htm A bomb ripped through a crowded meat market in an Indonesian province that has been plagued by sectarian violence, killing at least 8 people on Saturday and wounding 45, officials said. Many of the victims were believed to be Christians. The attack occurred in the town of Palu as people were preparing for New Year's celebrations. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/1955918.stm At least 12 people have been killed by a Muslim mob which attacked a Christian village in the Moluccan islands in eastern Indonesia. The violence then spread to the regional capital, Ambon city, where a bomb went off, and a centre for Christian and Muslim children and one of the city's main churches were set on fire http://www.ekklesia.co.uk/content/news_syn...0iattacks.shtml Christians and foreigners living in many parts of Indonesia, the world’s most populous Muslim nation, are increasingly fearful for their safety following the Bali bombings and a series of brutal religious attacks over the past few weeks. And this recent gem: Today, the decapitated bodies of three Christian schoolgirls, all aged in their teens, were discovered on a road leading to a school in Poso, Central Sulawesi. The Jakarta Post states that the girls are believed to have been walking to school when they were killed.
X. Benedict Posted January 5, 2006 Posted January 5, 2006 Its very roots are not in evangelism but rather forcible conquest and conversion. 555804[/snapback] This is disputable. Conquest expanded the boundries, but the conversion was more likely through the believers tax loop-hole than by force. The conversion tax loophole was quite a powerful instrument. Jews and Christians were taxed were Muslims were not. It created quite an incentive to convert, and proof that most people were willing to believe with their pocketbooks.
Scraps Posted January 5, 2006 Posted January 5, 2006 Did I say that? please point it out to me, i forgot. to sum up: 1) to the Islamic community, start looking inward instead of blaming the jews, christians, and hindus for all your problems 2) comparing the far right christian global movement to Islamic Jihad is like comparing a local house break-in criminal gang to Murder, Inc. 555892[/snapback] I never claimed you did. It was a question. It seems to me that the logical conclusion of you "Islam Bad" tirades to to erradicate the religion. I'm asking you to take a stand. All you do is produce "Islam Bad" rhetoric. I certainly agree that the Islamic community has to look inward. But I seldom see any community do so when faced with over the top criticism like you routinely provide. If anything, those communities tend to circle the wagons.
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