Ghost of BiB Posted January 1, 2006 Share Posted January 1, 2006 Well now you ruint it - the last thing I would ever do is parrot my husband, on ANYTHING. I've always thought the government was full of nincompoops and have never relied on them to be anything but wasteful, frivolous pompous asses. That's why, when I was asked to consider a run for Congress, I said no. I knew I'd have NO patience for that bull sh--. I once belonged to an organization comprised 99% of white guys so I understand why it is that nothing gets done but pontification, self-aggrandizement and enrichment, along with a whole lot of empty promises. 546326[/snapback] Gee, thanks for the pep talk, Deb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RkFast Posted January 1, 2006 Share Posted January 1, 2006 That's why, when I was asked to consider a run for Congress, I said no. I knew I'd have NO patience for that bull sh--. I once belonged to an organization comprised 99% of white guys so I understand why it is that nothing gets done but pontification, self-aggrandizement and enrichment, along with a whole lot of empty promises. 546326[/snapback] Now theres a progressive, tolerant, understanding and enlightened statement, if i EVER heard one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokinandjokin Posted January 1, 2006 Share Posted January 1, 2006 Does the Patriot Act have anything to do with The Tuck Rule??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASCI Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 I am cracking up - this is just what the nuns told us all about the Commies in the 1960s when we were little kids. Yup, the Russians were going to push nails in our eyeballs and Chinese would either use water torture or bamboo slivers under our fingernails. I recall my mom stockpiling non-perishable food in the basement as a hedge against The Bomb but never any hint at giving up on doing exactly as we pleased or going where we wanted to go. But hey, those who want to let the government take care of all this since they know so much better, give up your freedoms. If that is what makes you safe, then perhaps you should go to a country where there is no freedom, because those people must be really safe, eh? 545213[/snapback] Weak comparison. The communists didn’t blow up two buildings in NY, nor blow up a subway in London, trains in Spain or attempt to set off a dirty bomb in the US. I’d take the Cold War over the war on terrorism any day. Mutually ensured destruction was our greatest weapon during the Cold War. The patriot act and human intelligence are our best weapons against the war on terror. If we have to suspend some liberties during this war, so be it. It’s nothing new. During WWII the press was censored and our nation survived it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drnykterstein Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 Thats the good things about laws- they can be repealed when they are no longer needed- and I like your thinking- we will win this one! 545398[/snapback] Because all the government is very good about repealing laws that are no longer needed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 Weak comparison. The communists didn’t blow up two buildings in NY, nor blow up a subway in London, trains in Spain or attempt to set off a dirty bomb in the US. I’d take the Cold War over the war on terrorism any day. Mutually ensured destruction was our greatest weapon during the Cold War. The patriot act and human intelligence are our best weapons against the war on terror. If we have to suspend some liberties during this war, so be it. It’s nothing new. During WWII the press was censored and our nation survived it. 550182[/snapback] As has been mentioned many times, in many ways from all quarters of the political spectrum, this "war" is different from all others in that it may never end. There will never be a "Victory over Terrorism" day like there was a VE or a VJ day. Thus, we are not temporarily giving up our rights, we are doing it permanently. Many of the historical actions you refer took place with oversight/knowledge of the other branches. Many were in full view of the public or even authorized specifically by Congress. What happened here is without precedent. He violated a law specifically drawn up to address this very situation. Worse, there was no need to disregard that law. All the security you are so willing to embrace at the cost of liberty is provided for under FISA. He can tap anyone, anywhere, for any reason for a whole year with extensions available. All he had to do was notify (notify, not ask permission) the FISA court and a few committe heads in congress. FISA was drawn up to allow and legalize the limited suspension of constitutional rights in favor of security needs you say we need in this conflict. It was even amended by the Patriot Act to update it and make it that much more useful and adapted to the war on terrorism. Even so, this President disregarded it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted January 3, 2006 Author Share Posted January 3, 2006 As has been mentioned many times, in many ways from all quarters of the political spectrum, this "war" is different from all others in that it may never end. There will never be a "Victory over Terrorism" day like there was a VE or a VJ day. Thus, we are not temporarily giving up our rights, we are doing it permanently. Many of the historical actions you refer took place with oversight/knowledge of the other branches. Many were in full view of the public or even authorized specifically by Congress. What happened here is without precedent. He violated a law specifically drawn up to address this very situation. Worse, there was no need to disregard that law. All the security you are so willing to embrace at the cost of liberty is provided for under FISA. He can tap anyone, anywhere, for any reason for a whole year with extensions available. All he had to do was notify (notify, not ask permission) the FISA court and a few committe heads in congress. FISA was drawn up to allow and legalize the limited suspension of constitutional rights in favor of security needs you say we need in this conflict. It was even amended by the Patriot Act to update it and make it that much more useful and adapted to the war on terrorism. Even so, this President disregarded it. 550251[/snapback] It will end with the extermination of all the terrorists! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 It will end with the extermination of all the terrorists! 550302[/snapback] ... and how will we know that has occurred? Will they send us a note? At what point will we know there is not a single solitary person on the planet who is planning to strap a backpack bomb on and board a subway? There will never be a "victory" moment. Liberty is easy to give away, much harder to retrieve once lost. Besides, if no one but the executive/king knows that he has stolen this or that liberty, how will we know to ask for it back? Bush has made up his own rules and appointed himself to make sure he obeys himself. It is okay though, we can be sure he is not abusing the power to trample civil liberties because he has vigorously checked up on himself and it turns out he has done nothing wrong. *whew* What a relief. For a minute there I thought democracy was in trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tossy McSalad Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 It will end with the extermination of all the terrorists! 550302[/snapback] And people think I'm easy.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 And people think I'm easy.... 550372[/snapback] If only they would wear uniforms of some kind, wore a funny hat or something so we could single them out. Uncooperative SOB's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 ... and how will we know that has occurred? Will they send us a note? At what point will we know there is not a single solitary person on the planet who is planning to strap a backpack bomb on and board a subway? There will never be a "victory" moment. Liberty is easy to give away, much harder to retrieve once lost. Besides, if no one but the executive/king knows that he has stolen this or that liberty, how will we know to ask for it back? Bush has made up his own rules and appointed himself to make sure he obeys himself. It is okay though, we can be sure he is not abusing the power to trample civil liberties because he has vigorously checked up on himself and it turns out he has done nothing wrong. *whew* What a relief. For a minute there I thought democracy was in trouble. 550366[/snapback] Simple. We'll "know" when Islamic radicals are wiped out. Which conveniently neglects the fact that 100 years ago, terrorists weren't Islamic but anarchists. 100 years before that, they were the French. 100 years before that...? Hell, 20 years ago it was the friggin' Irish. At any rate, terrorism as a tactic just "is", and by that measure you can't "wipe out" terrorists. You can, however, potentially "wipe out" Islamic radicalism...in the sense that you can change the conditions under which it thrives. But other terrorists will pop up in their place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 Simple. We'll "know" when Islamic radicals are wiped out.Which conveniently neglects the fact that 100 years ago, terrorists weren't Islamic but anarchists. 100 years before that, they were the French. 100 years before that...? Hell, 20 years ago it was the friggin' Irish. At any rate, terrorism as a tactic just "is", and by that measure you can't "wipe out" terrorists. You can, however, potentially "wipe out" Islamic radicalism...in the sense that you can change the conditions under which it thrives. But other terrorists will pop up in their place. 550418[/snapback] So ultimately, if we follow the logic of those who woud trade liberty for security in this particular conflict, we have cashed in our freedom in exchange for a perpetual game of "whack-a-mole"? Maybe that is overstating it since they haven't yet infringed upon my freedoms that I am aware of so, since it is clearly not my nuts in the vice, I'll just resort to an applause getting, jingoistical patriotic rant about killing all those damn muslims and then go back to my TV and count the seconds to the next wet t-shirt moment on Survivor: Wet Place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 So ultimately, if we follow the logic of those who woud trade liberty for security in this particular conflict, we have cashed in our freedom in exchange for a perpetual game of "whack-a-mole"? Yep. That may be overstating it just a bit, but fundamentally: yep. Maybe that is overstating it since they haven't yet infringed upon my freedoms that I am aware of so, since it is clearly not my nuts in the vice, I'll just resort to an applause getting, jingoistical patriotic rant about killing all those damn muslims and then go back to my TV and count the seconds to the next wet t-shirt moment on Survivor: Wet Place. 550906[/snapback] I think I'll join y - oooh, look! A shiny object! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted January 3, 2006 Author Share Posted January 3, 2006 So ultimately, if we follow the logic of those who woud trade liberty for security in this particular conflict, we have cashed in our freedom in exchange for a perpetual game of "whack-a-mole"? Maybe that is overstating it since they haven't yet infringed upon my freedoms that I am aware of so, since it is clearly not my nuts in the vice, I'll just resort to an applause getting, jingoistical patriotic rant about killing all those damn muslims and then go back to my TV and count the seconds to the next wet t-shirt moment on Survivor: Wet Place. 550906[/snapback] Haven't infringed that you know of? If a tree falls in the forrest and doesn't make a sound, did it fall. All this talk about infringing on civil liberties....its not about liberties at all....its just about a bunch of selfish spoiled brats who were brought up to think they are entitled to things. I love watching them break down when they don't get the things they are entitled to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albany,n.y. Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 I'm sick of the Patriots act. Aren't 3 out of the last 4 Super Bowls enough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted January 3, 2006 Author Share Posted January 3, 2006 I'm sick of the Patriots act. Aren't 3 out of the last 4 Super Bowls enough? 551049[/snapback] They have a great new card trick though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 Haven't infringed that you know of? If a tree falls in the forrest and doesn't make a sound, did it fall. All this talk about infringing on civil liberties....its not about liberties at all....its just about a bunch of selfish spoiled brats who were brought up to think they are entitled to things. I love watching them break down when they don't get the things they are entitled to. 550997[/snapback] Yeah, it's about the things we're entitled to. Specifically, it's about the civil liberties the Constitution says we are entitled to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fezmid Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 Haven't infringed that you know of? If a tree falls in the forrest and doesn't make a sound, did it fall. All this talk about infringing on civil liberties....its not about liberties at all....its just about a bunch of selfish spoiled brats who were brought up to think they are entitled to things. I love watching them break down when they don't get the things they are entitled to. 550997[/snapback] Since you don't believe in civil freedoms and liberties, why don't you move to a country that doesn't have them? Why are you proud to be an American, when it's those freedoms and liberties that MAKE our country? I'm serious, why do you love the country if you don't care about what it was founded on? I don't see how anyone can condone some of the stuff that's gone on. For example, the case where everyone who went to Vegas for a period of time now has a file opened on them. How can an article like this not be chilling to you? http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...0501366_pf.html CW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted January 4, 2006 Author Share Posted January 4, 2006 Yeah, it's about the things we're entitled to. Specifically, it's about the civil liberties the Constitution says we are entitled to. 551482[/snapback] Yep, at a time of war, people talking to the enemy shouldn't be monitored. Anyone talking to Al Queda should have ALL of their calls monitored from that point on. Since you don't believe in civil freedoms and liberties, why don't you move to a country that doesn't have them? Why are you proud to be an American, when it's those freedoms and liberties that MAKE our country? I'm serious, why do you love the country if you don't care about what it was founded on? Yep, I don't love the country. I'm glad we cleared that up. I don't want it to be overrun by people who side with the terrorists, and I want those people snuffed out as quickly as possible. THOSE ARE THE PEOPLE WHO DON'T LOVE THIS COUNTRY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 Yep, at a time of war, people talking to the enemy shouldn't be monitored. Anyone talking to Al Queda should have ALL of their calls monitored from that point on. 551502[/snapback] Ah. War trumps the Constitution. Thanks for clearing that up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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